Fantastic stream absoloutley blown away with this the 380 is stunning in looks and sounds glasgow central looked incredible full of AI this has raised the bar for routes now. Amazing day one buy for me and a bargain for 12,99
DTG really seems to have taken a step up with tsw content since tsw4 launched, (BPO, WSR remaster, Goblin, 380 all being incredibly well done)
yes i was thinking the same ever since Goblin DTG appear to have really gone to town with things. This is what i like to see DTG do pushing the best out of everything. Content of quality we have saw recently i do not mind paying full price for.
Good that it seems not as bad as some of us feared at least in the sound department. However still no immediate rush to buy given the Cathcart update is complimentary. Not only that, the timing sucks a bit as this releases when people have just finished splurging on the Steam sale and many of us also enjoying th 218 - in other words plenty to get on with, without rushing to buy more content.
The night lighting is superb. The station lights at night are just so bang on. It honestly reminded me of sitting in the back of a car as a kid and giggling watching your shadow fly past the seat in front of you every time the car drove under a street light at night. Night lighting is something ALOT of games just fail to get right. The last game I can think of which had good night lighting was GTA IV because the nights actually looked really dark. Too many games for some reason make it way too light and the sky looks far too blue instead of black. I understand if it’s a full moon or something but that isn’t the case with some games these days.
Was very impressed with every aspect of the Class 380 in the preview, the sounds are spot on, no matter what others say (the Desiro family, like the Electrostars have a generic and distinctive sounding system). Rather then enjoy the preview of the 380 and the remaster, there were a few people in the comments asking stupid things ("will it Cathcart be extended to here..." "I want it to be layered onto this..." blah blah blah). For one Edinburgh to Glasgow is Rivets territory, and for them to layer on, DT are quite comprehensive with layering their own routes. So any suggestions or criticism for that should be directed at Rivet... And without starting a Rivet bashing thread, we all know that won't happen... As I say I was extremely impressed with the 380 and Cathcart remaster, it looks very comprehensive and has a real busy feel of a commuter route. Well done DT, and particularly Liam and Daniel who have made this a real good remaster and breathed so much life into it Cathcart. I and am very excited, and looking forward to its release... Also for selfish reasons I like an end to end route where you can drive an entire service rather then portions, and this really caters for that!
Well, watched the stream. Not at all impressed with the night lighting. It was very dark initially, supposed to get " much brighter " as the train approached the downtown. If it did, I certainly didn't see it. Looked just as undriveable as ever. Stations might have been a tad brighter. Since I already have CCL, I'll see what it's like on launch, but not impressed so far. As far as the train is concerned, looked OK for a typical emu, but eerily quiet. Not sure it's worth $17 though.
it will be quiet as the motors are not near the cab. This is what i dont get people think you can hear everything from the cab. I can assure you you cant IRL when i am driving my train in work you dont hear the motors etc as they are not in the cab, Normally i can hear a compressor running to recharge my air etc but the sounds people are expecting to hear in sim you do not here in a real life cab (11 years of driving experiance)
As you're a driver, I'll take your word for it, although I thought Matt rolled down the windows. And I don't recall much in the way of track sound. Is that muffled too?
dont get me wrong differents trains operate differently i dont sign 380s but giving the panto was further back that is where the auxilaries and stuff will be thats where the noise will be coming from. If the leading bogies were powered then you would get noise but its not going to be loud like people expect them to be in sim. struggling to find anything technical specific with diagrams online to look it up better hmmmmm
I like and highly welcome the dark nights. To me it was THE immeraion braker back in 2021 when nights were so bright and i had to use unreal unlocker on 70% of to routes to make it look real. But night lightening was always discussed here in tsw, probably the detail level of dresden riesa was never achieved anymore with other routes. (At least in my opinion)
If the nights are darker that makes Cathcart even worse than it was before. For Light’s sake DTG, give us a gamma slider. I prefer a bit of ambient light around me at night. This isn’t the middle of Rannoch Moor, apart from the spurs out to Newton and Neilston this is a major built up city should be awash with light pollution. Well at least we don’t have to buy the train to check it out, as I mused earlier. If it’s pitch black then we might as well all step back to 1993 and start playing Simudrive again. The simple fact remains, TSW does awful night lighting, either as a limitation of UE or DTG’s understanding of how to make it work. I intend to do a night run on Ringbahn in TSC later and you can bet your boots Berlin at night looks far better than Glasgow in TSW. IMHO best night lighting in a transport game remains the truck sims ETS2 and ATS. TSW literally can’t hold a candle to it. As regards sounds being correct well yes technically if there are no motors in the driving ends. However not very entertaining and again this is where a bit of “modeller’s licence” could come in to play. After all, it’s done for the classic diesels where you hear the exterior thrash in the cab where in reality they are fairly quiet, even the 218 gives you a lovely aural experience which I’m sure is not there in reality. This is again where we need an option between realism or hearing the electro thrash but seems beyond the wit of DTG to realise this or even code it in. This doesn’t just apply to modern EMU’s but if we ever got the classic units some of us would like to see such as VEP’s, CIG’s, 310’s, 321’s etc.
The trouble is irl this route travels through suburbs and the line side is covered by trees on either side for quite an extensive part. It’s not really a line IRL that is covered with street lights and property etc.
One thing that would improve night lighting a lot would the buildings actually illuminating there surroundings, not sure why don’t but if it’s not too costly on resources it’s something that needs to be there. No matter how many buildings you add light it still won’t turn out amazing
But particularly on a cloudy night you would still get the ambient light from the city reflecting off the cloud and providing “grey light” illumination of the surroundings. And as regards the buildings itself, it does seem TSW still uses the same technique for night textures on buildings as we did 23 years ago in MSTS - replace the day texture with its glossy black glass texture with an off white yellow texture on the glassed area to emulate a room with the light on. Buildings and street lights should be projecting an aura of light into the environment not just a static picture.
the only time the train really feels it is in the city is when you are at Glasgow central. When it departs that it is travelling either along tracks which are basically out of the way with lines of trees either side. Or travelling in a sort of cutting as platforms are not at street level kind of like cut and cover but with no cover if that makes sense. I used to live on the line.
Well I guess we can debate ambient light as infinitum and it is a subjective thing. As said, I do prefer how ETS2 and ATS present the night time world. The key thing with Cathcart will be if the stations look brighter as that was main complaint about the current (soon to be former) iteration of the route.
It was weird to see the route with all the traffic. Looked like a totally different route I remember playing. Looking forward to this DLC.
Regarding Cathcart lighting, all light sources have been reworked for ToD 4. This includes stations having lighting reworked to match real life pics, more street lamps with updated values and added ambient night lighting to buildings which project physical light around them.
For the record there is one service to Edinburgh via shotts on a weekday that’s done by a 380 and also revolving the sounds they sound absolutely fine the horns a bit off but we move! Nice job DTG
Nevertheless the night lighting just doesn’t look strong enough. Watched (most) of the stream earlier, running into Glasgow Central the station lighting is nice and the rework on the intermediate stations looks good too. But we have office blocks and other buildings where all you see is a murky yellow texture where the windows are. Even if the game engine can’t do light projecting into ambience at least the windows should look brighter. I guess the proof of the pudding will be running the route on the same hardware/software environment as before and making a comparison rather than the stream.
But can you create realistic lightning in the UE version DTG uses? Night lightning has been a discussion since a long time. Never saw much improvement on that front. Even in TOD4 I skip night services. Do you think what I am thinking? Instead of TSW4 Rush hour 2 we get to see TSW4 Night hour. TSW4 but with improved night lighting. Over use of night services in journey mode guaranteed
Well I guess the graphic and 3D artists have done the best with what they have to work with. It just makes me shake my head when I play ATS and run through even a small town at night, let alone a city. Anyhow, moving on what else did I take away from the stream? Well all reservations about one handled EMU’s aside, the 380 does look very nicely modelled both exterior and interior/cab. Could maybe look a bit more weathered particularly the interior as the trains are not exactly ex factory any more. Sound, well earlier caveat applies just not really enough entertainment level in the cab and difficult to tell with the constant background commentary but it does look as if track joint and points are a bit muffled. The biggest problem for me remains this train is really wasted on the low speed bus service that Cathcart is. Even out to Newton or Neilston it can’t stretch its legs and needed a route where it can run at top speed for at least a few minutes. One thing that might persuade me to buy this (and the Rivet E to G route) is if it got a layer/substitution on Edinburgh to Glasgow as it certainly seems better than Rivet’s dire 385. But no plans this, no plans that kind of suggests as said previously it will end up orphaned and forgotten like the 700. As regards the stream itself, appreciate Matt was back off the sick, but that doesn’t preclude the people who built the train and enhanced the route looking through the Q&A and feeding back a brief to the presenters. Just seems a tad unprofessional having a stream where, “Have to get back to you on that”, seems to be the stock reply. And tongue in cheek (and sorry DTG Matt !) your little confession Matt about preferring stop/start routes aka bus service as I term them has given the game away! That said, I’m enjoying both the 218 on Maintalbahn and the Ringbahn in TSC, which also roundly fall into the bus service category… So will the 380 be a Day One purchase for me? Hard to say. If it had better audio and layers on to Edinburgh Glasgow then quite possibly yes. As it stands, can probably leave for a sale/bundle unless of course the big unrevealed late summer/TSW5 UK route turns out to be something like Glasgow to Ayr/Lanark/Helensburgh/Wemyss Ba/Largs and the 380 slots in.
This will be an almost day one for me, the 380 looks great and I want to repay all the effort put into the route upgrade and new timetable. The only thing delaying a day one purchase is I want to wait for the 380 to get the new suspension, and also the release of the 158, so I'll hold off until I can play the full experience.
You just can't please some people! For the record I think the night time lighting looks absolutely fine! As I've already said, I am looking forward to this very much.
It'll be a day one for me. My local train, so was looking forward to get it in the game. The one thing that concerned me were the sounds, but yesterday's stream calmed me. I assume while we do not have 158 we just will not have the diesel services at Glasgow Central? I mean when it'll come out will we still be able to see all the new timetable layers except of 158 without purchase of 158?
The only diesel layers that will be in the update next week will be using the 170 (if you own Fife circle) and the 158 layers will only activate once you purchase it since nothing else runs those services
It’s a little disappointing the 380 doesn’t layer onto Edinburgh-Glasgow. Even if it’s not featured on there in real life, a few rail tours would’ve been nice.
Same it seems like people nit pick something just for the sake of complaining. Like you I cannot wait for next week.
They don’t go Edinburgh to Glasgow now the 385s are in service so why layer something that is not accurate to real life.
Would be awesome if they dropped the 158 on the same day…. Hoping there isn’t a large gap between releases, and ideally there’s an aligned launch with updates to both Fife Circle and Cathcart on Tuesday to accomodate
They are at Edinburgh on services to Berwick (I saw quite a few at Edinburgh last time I was up in 2022), but people need to remember, that's a Rivet route and it is for them to implement as AI, so any frustrations there need to be directed at them, not DT...
you wouldn’t see them at Edinburgh in that case as the Fife circles tend to use the platforms on the left side of the station from haymarket the Berwicks use the termini platforms at the other end facing away from the other end.
If the 158 were close to ready, I think it would have been shown on the stream. The way they talked about it, it's still a way off. My bet is some time in August, and definitely by end of Sept.
The 'London End' platforms are included, and you occasionally see the odd Azuma, but it's no where as busy at it should be. Would be nice if Rivet revisited it and put the 380 in as AI as Edinburgh still feels very dead!
Well, I guess you must have the eyes of an eagle or Superman. I live on the outskirts of a large city full of trees lined streets, semi-rural in parts, just a few high-rises. And there is no time 24/7 when the ambient light from buildings, street lights and the light-mantle of the nearby city does not create sufficient light to clearly see my surroundings. Despite the best efforts of Liam and others, the nighttime view from the cab and cameras on Cathcart ( and many other routes ) is insufficiently lit for driving. Matt said in the stream that it was admittedly dark at the beginning of his run, but it would get brighter as he neared the city center. Never happened, until he actually got to the throat of Glasgow Central. DTG simply haven't learned or mastered the process of night lighting in TSW. Sometimes, by wit or accident they get it half-right like with ECML for example. But not with Cathcart, I'm afraid. If I drive this route again, it will be during daylight. And this is not " nitpicking " or " rivet counting ". I really wish I could be more positive. But this is a genuine and ongoing concern for me. You're a relative newcomer to the forum but let me assure you that I have posted about this issue many times over the years. The DTG apologists among us should realize that not every complaint about the game is complaining for its own sake.
It's got better, but I still think in some cases it's too dark too. I rarely drive at night on it, unless it's unavoidable.
iirc there are (or were) specific rules by the transportation authorities in the UK with regards to locomotive and train lights at night (as well as horn/bell use at night in urban areas) and the lights were kept quite dim. Whether that's still the case I've no idea. Living in western Canada, I am used to traction having bright headlights/ditchlights etc, so when I started simming in Railworks the dim lights in the UK were something to get used to (mind you, Kuju/TS had rather dim lights on the North American stock for quite some time too lol). As to ambient lighting in urban areas in TSW it seems relatively realistic- there are going to be really dark areas even in a well lit up city...deep shadows made deeper by the glare of streetlights, elevation etc.
Something tells me that the build being used for last night's stream was an older one that wasn't finished. During the night segment, Matt pulled into Whitecraigs which was pitch black (pictured below). Then if we take a look at the DTG article posted yesterday, we can see an image of Whitecraigs station fully lit up at dusk. I could be entirely wrong, but the lack of ambient lighting in the stream gives the impression of an older build that wasn't finished. Fingers crossed ambient lighting is there in the final release build.
Modern UK rolling stock generally has quite bright headlights, including one at the top centre of the front which never used to be a requirement. They are still more for the train to be seen than to aid the driver in seeing as other than at very low speed, not going to stop short of an obstruction in headlight range anyway. The crux of the discussion here, and one in which it would be nice to see DTG offering a view rather than staying quiet, is on night lighting in general. Again as we can see from the discussion it is subjective but while yes, big cities can still have the odd pool of darkness, generally they are lit up along with the sky from miles away. I remember coming into cities like Newcastle on the train and even in modern rolling stock with fluorescent lighting reflecting back off the window it was hard not to notice the carpet of lights and orange glow over the conurbation as you approach. Glasgow in TSW looks more like Wheel Of Time Emond's Field...
Whitecraigs was an issue caused by me which is now fixed. Basically the light controllers for each station or light source have a setting where you can have a 0-100% of being active at night. Somehow Whitecraigs rounded down to 99.9% chance of having its lights on, with the stream just by chance catching that 0.01%
