Can We Not Have More Tsw Releases?

I get what you are saying but weren't their similar arguments when TSW4 was leaked from a french article? I heard comments on reddit at the time downplaying tsw4 but then here we are with tsw4 and the leaks turned out to be true

 

I personally dont mind paying for a new release. Its at the end of the day a pretty good deal. But only if I actually cared about the routes. Alot of people still get turned off the game from this bad consumer practice which hurts the playerbase and community which in turn hurts the game. This game would be alot less without all the amazing mods. Those modders are slowly leaving due to DTG's actions which sucks.

Also the download size is very annoying every year. I just want a rush hour thing with a rebrand. So they can market it as a "new" game to outsiders but you dont have to buy it if you're already there. Would be ideal for me. Hell i'd even take a subscription pass if that means this anti-consumer practice stops

You're still here, please leave

 

Oh I agree with you that it is not a good practice. Also if you are not interested in any of the base routes, then you are out of luck. Let's not even discuss having to reinstall all the DLC's especially if you have slow internet. What a pain that must be. I also agree that it could push some away from the franchise. They could easily just have a free core update and sell the summer routes separately as a bundle which would sell. But if they are going to have a paid core update yearly, perhaps it would be better to either wait for a route that you are interested in or just wait for a sale.

I waited for a discount because I didn't see any justification for this game and wasn't going to pay that much money for a game that came with routes that ultimately didn't interest me. ECML feels like you are going from nowhere to nowhere. Antelope Valley Line was boring and unremarkable and S Bahn Voralberg was a complete turnoff due to the inaccurate sounds of the 4024. I hardly play those routes

 

First of all it seems to me you have no idea on how long it takes to build a new mechanic into a game. Dtg isnt as big as EA, Ubisoft. etc. so i dont think they can do something like this in a month or two.
Im not a professional but i saw how developing videogames works and its just too much for me to understand, so i would never get the idea of complaining about something i cant do better.
Also we get Information about the development of the delayed stuff (and all the other stuff) in Roadmap streams and imo they inform us very well about the progress they make.

I mean they could do it like other companys and dont give us Information about it at all.

Second, to compare a human with the development of a new feature is a bit out of hand.

Third, the good old term "no one forces you to buy" completely fits this situation.
You say: I want a dlc with new features for an older version of the game, where those new features would not work at all, because i dont want to pay for those features. Did i get that right?
After all Tsw is a simulation limited to its engine. (And no i hope they stay with UE4 cause the hate if you cant keep the old dlcs would be very very big.)

I dont want to say you are completely wrong, but it seems there is much you overlook or forget about.

Also this discussion would fit more if a new game actually would have been announced. And that is not the case obviously.

 

A new game is gonna be on the horizon. No doubt about that. Just making a statement to hopefully change DTG's course. I know game development takes alot of time, but this was a feature promised at launch. after so long we still dont really have it. I suspect they dont put much time and developers into it cause it isn't making any money for the higher ups. Just like with steam improvements. So it's just gonna go as slow as possible to save on cost.

Dont be hung up about the "no one forces you to buy". Yeah obviously? they arent holding a gun to my head but its still ridiculous to expect me to buy the same game just so I can keep up with the DLC i actually want. Barely anything changed from TSW3 to TSW4 but I still had to buy it if I wanted to get Blackpool branches for example (which was a route marketed in the TSW3 era). Again I dont mind the jump from TSW3 to TSW4 as I really enjoy the base routes and the 2 loco's but that doesnt change the fact that it turns many people off of this game making it worse for everyone in the long run

also "older version of the game" doesnt mean much. They can update the core without it being a new game. Just like how they changed the lighting from TODv3 to the one used in rush hour without them having to make it a new game. They should have a different way of putting in core features without making a whole new game. Idk make every dlc like 2 euros more or something.

 

Might be a bit of bias on my side it’s another franchise I got invested in that has similar practices in terms of base game plus continuing dlc to TSW, even more bias as I’m a console user so ETS2 won’t be first to mind

Edit: rather off topic but hooded horse, I will add I definitely have been noticing seeming like a good company with a few pc games I’ve kept an eye on, looks like they are bringing stuff to console too.

 

every source of revenue is DTG’ source, they ain’t going to sacrifice a large chunk, which going by steam stats I’ve seen floating about on the forum before is a big spike when it comes to the release of the next iteration and core routes for the purpose of allowing customers to get around buying them.

What business would take away their profit so that customers don’t have to spend as much with them

 

..or are stuck on cellular data plans, yes, those still exist!
I was a couple of years ago and I would have to pay approximately 30 bucks just to download the DLCs.

Well fair enough. Me personally, you could not pay me to touch their stuff, mostly for the reasons mentioned, apart from Battlefield 5 that is, an excellent game I paid 10 bucks, for half a decade or so ago, that I still play weekly.

 

The way DTG mostly make money is from DLC sales though. I don't see a scenario where DTG goes out of business, goes broke or loses money because they release a free core update whilst charging for new routes like they done in the past and also sold well.

 

yea I often stay back for a couple of months, assess and move in on a sale, the price for them at release I don’t find value in nowadays really. Sales on that franchise on Xbox are very frequent I find, luckily more often than not something is in a sale for that.

Edit: battlefield 3 and the one I believe is just titled battlefield what’s set on ww1 stories I’ve played, got the stories one for about £2 in a sale, always wanted to try it and it was a great campaign, 3 I completed the campaign a long time ago, actually went to do it again yesterday and either I forgot or something changed about the controller controls on the 360 that I gave up with it, way too difficult with them controls.

I’m definitely a campaign player, I never play online nowadays, dabbled a bit with GTA online some years ago but that’s it for online, I’m either solo or split screen with friend/relative.

 

DLC sales, 3rd party DLC sales and base game/core route sales is their income on the TSW franchise

possibly not but either way it loses them cash and they ain’t going to change from a course of make cash to not make cash purely for the purpose of giving customers options not to pay them.

unless the solution is equally as good to them or better they won’t change course for no big reason

 

I never said that DLC sales are the only way they make money. DLC sales make up most of their sales. It's always been part of their business strategy for years

 

yep… but not going to change anything about the main topic discussion unless theirs a solution they will accept what makes them more cash or equally good amount of cash to make up the loss, that’s business, welcome to capitalism.

 

As i dont like that they are releasing new game every year then i understand that move at least from my point of view. Not if thats the real reason why are they doing that (im sure money is another reason) but while TSC is still on the same old engine, TSW is usually on updated UE4 engine with new features and those features got impact on your HW (well since Rush Hour they are still using UE4 4.26 but they keep adding stuff from 4.27 and even from UE5). How you will react if one year the game worked fine, then you will got free update and from 60 FPS you will got for example 10 because of some core update and added features ? (sure thats not problem of users who got recommended configuration but if you got minimum configuration which the game suppose to work and with update it will increase you will not be happy because the game which you buy worked fine before). Sure there is option to downgrade the game and disabling updates but then its basically the same like if you will keep old version and buy new version which you can refund (mostly you are buying routes anyway... core is like free for that - maybe they can think about releasing core version with just test track for free).

For me, releasing new game is not really problem (sure im not happy about redownloading all DLCs over and over... and have the same game 4 times in my Steam library with the same bugs)... main problem for me is those false promises to make the game sell better and this bother me since TSW:HH and they keep doing that every year. Like for me TSW 3 was the last game which i was ready to buy... until they announced editor for TSW 4. For me the editor was the main reason why i bought TSW 4 (and i think im not alone who got the TSW 4 only because of editor). But yeah after release, there suppose to be some editor updates and they never came (what a surprise), so they released editor where you can create content but you cant release it because they removed the main cooking function and they messed up asset discovery function. And what is more sad, they keep breaking the game with every update and then they will release new version of TSW which will got all fixed (so if you want fixed version you have to buy it or wait until they decide to fix their old version - which will take them months or never). So even if they release new TSW i will stick with TSW 4 as the last game which i buy from them. Im done supporting the company which dont really care about their supporters but care only about money - there is no feature which will make me buy new TSW (even if they finally release promissed multiplayer since TSW:HH because it will be as i know DTG, big disaster).

 

Not a feature ever promised to my knowledge, it’s never been announced to my knowledge and if it was promised it would be announced.

 

it’s a business they sell you buy or you dont.

its not a charity to give away things for free cause they can still financially stay a float.

 

Man you must be new here lol... multiplayer and editor was promised since TSW:HH

Just for refreshing your memory, this is from release faq:
Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul – Multiplayer Feature

• (Q) “Will there be multiplayer?” from TheGamer 567

• (A) Multiplayer is still heavily in development and will therefore not feature in the Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul Beta. However, we are planning for multiplayer to become a key feature of the Train Sim World experience and we’ll have more details on this in the coming weeks.

Those details never come, it suppose to be part of the final release, then they announced that its not going to be part of the release but it will come in september with first DLC... first DLC was released and guess what... they forgot to add that multiplayer

 

that explains it then , I couldn’t work out what HH is because I’m not a pc player, I’ve been around with TSW since founders as that’s the start with console

 

as for me, I can be annoyed by some bugs, but overall I am content with the content I got... got 218 which despite the door bug shenanigans is a loco I got a ....load of gameplay since I got it, and already made 2 liveries for it... and when I make my own livery, I tend to drive those locos/MUs a lot

sure, would welcome some features, fixes, or such, and more Vienna/Austrian content, but overall, I'm just fine now... community is, mostly, awesome, Maik and such guys around give tons of valuable infos, sometimes Matt drops in with some damn good info

so despite stuff that obviously isnt ok here, I am fine, this game makes life much more bearable at times viva la trainses ))

edit: I hope they eventually update Taurus with correct LZB stuff... and that Desiro ML eventually makes it into the game as it is (for me at least), together with Taurus, an iconic rolling stock, as far as Austria goes

 

It's as easy as saying "Hey, we won't release another TSW and we will support the current version of TSW for X year(s)" or "Hey, we will release a new TSW version this year, but we won't go further into detail".

 

they wouldn’t announce that they will until the announcement date, it’s a very jazzy affair not a forum message, like the 24hr stream one year.

yes they could announce a simple no theirs no plans to do that this year, but the fact that won’t happen is easy to see why (it is, TSW is an annual release as confirmed by Focus)

So the answer is to wait for the announcement in probably mid-late august

 

That was my point.

 

Am the same. Only uk for me also.

 

You're obviously right, but I didn't even say anything even remotely like that??? You're correcting me on something completely unrelated and unmentioned by me.

 

I would love more at the detriment to my finances maybe not though.....

 

can’t have one without the other

 

Sadly people don’t seem to understand how a business operates. They seem to forget they have overheads they need to cover. Simple ones that stick out.

building rental/pirchase
Electricity
Computers
Software
Office furniture
Staff
Pension contribution
Training
Office essentials

all of this soon adds up and when you take a base game which starts at 29,99 for the base that 29,99 cost is soon eaten up by the margins it is spread across in the above. Add to that they still need to make a profit to then develop future products.

 

For real can we stop the constant bickering like schoolchildren and get back to the original topic?

 

More than happy to i apologise to you all in here for my part during that recent outburst.

 

To get the ball rolling again. Did anyone notice there has been no denial or acknowledgment of TSW5? Curious! Enough material to start speculating again

 

Indeed - when speculating about a possible subscription model, DTG were quick to come out and say that no subscriptions were being announced (though they are being considered). If TSW5 wasn't coming, I think we'd have been told by now.

Although, they never said never, so with TSC gaining a subscription model, I wouldn't be surprised if TSW could gain one too... Perhaps the TSC subscription was just a testing ground for a subscription model to be introduced into TSW5!

 

No it doesn't really work like that. Not denying something isn't the same as confirming something.

 

You know what could help in covering such costs? Quality and longevity of the product. With every release/paywall more people are doing exactly what you suggest all the time - they don't buy it. When they don't buy it, that by default removes them as potential customers for the DLCs, that's potentially hundreds of dollars per person you're flushing down the drain because of your quick profit policy. Meanwhile when you do a good step like a proper upgrade to Cathcart when you release new content for it, you get people buying two DLCs at once. They have plethora of products that with only fixes could be good sellers again, they could keep the whole community going if core upgrade was free and the annual release was a bundle... but no, that's not the quick profit that looks so good. But it also isn't sustainable, evidenced by their frantic DLC galore every year before the end of FY just to bump up the numbers again.

 

I don't understand those economics. We are talking about games not a nuclear plant. What's hot today is already forgotten a few weeks later. Even quality stuff has a shelve life. But then again what I don't understand is what you mean with quality? When I look at TSW I don't see an AAA title. I see top notch looking trains in a way outdated environment on poor performance. TSW has never been a quality title so how would they maintain a quality game for free? To get a quality game we should forget getting any updates anymore and wait 5 to 10 years till they announce TSW as an AAA title. That's when you can talk about a quality train simulator.

 

When I talk about quality, I mean routes like RSN, SEHS, NTP, SPG that even after years are still considered better than most of the new stuff. If you did updates like to WSR and Cathcart to other routes, you could easily benefit from the content you already have. I have tried the TSW3 mod for Oakville using the existing stock - yes the liveries might turn some people off, but a relatively easy step of making a timetable with passenger trains was a breath of extremely fresh air to a forgotten route. Stuff like this would go a long way. No need to go nuclear or AAA, just don't do it like fire&forget.

 

But how are you going to do those upgrades to those routes without the new versions? Because that is basically what is going on with TSW: Older routes get upgraded to the new version of the game.

 

You have a point there: DRA only got updated because of the TSW4 release.
We'll never know if that also happened, when tsw4 didn't happen. It's a tough logic. But it happened that way.

But do you have any numbers to back that claim? I know it sounds logical. But people use this argument over and over, yet I've never seen a prove of that. And don't just use the steam 'how many people played this in the last 24 hours?' stats. It's incomplete, doesn't count the people who are not logged into steam. And don't count players on epic, Sony and Microsoft. In fact, these are the far higher majority compared to steam, as stated by DTG.

 

They basically just get new functionalities that are developed. That's not that heavily tied to the game version. Besides - Rush Hour was a bundle and actually changed TSW2 UE version, so you can easily do the version upgrades while still staying with the same iteration on paper. Most of the TSW4 features are missing anyway, so it was basically just freeroam and some cosmetic changes.

The only thing I've ever heard about player count, was the "even split" from Sam regarding PC, XB and PS. Not exactly a "far higher majority", but hey, the info is old, might have changed. So... with Steam you can notice a significantly dropping number of reviews with new DLCs as time goes on, that seems like a fairly good indication less people play on Steam... and while that doesn't exactly have to be the same on all platforms... what exactly would make other platforms have better results? If anything, console versions had significantly more problems than PC that would probably make players even less prone to stay (XB audio problem, PC trophies, graphic glitches, etc)

 

Your really miss the console part of this game. I can see how you view this from a PC perspective but you are not really familiar with consoles I notice. If the game had no new versions on consoles there would be much fewer players of this game. On PC devs have much more control over their product, on consoles they are depending on what the store does with their product. On consoles the yearly new versions actually make good sense.

 

I don't buy that argument at all. By that logic, games like GTA or fortnite should've lost players and not continue to have profited off of dlc. I know that those games are made by bigger companies, but if DTG wants to attract new players, then that is what marketing is for. TSW being on Gamepass for example is a great way to attract new players. Frequent sales also is a way to market the game to new players. There are many games on console that are not yearly releases and have attracted new players and made money

 

To add to that.

People have been pining for GTA6 for a few years, yet Rockstar still make plenty of money from GTA Online (which is 11 years old this year), and don't seem to be losing money over it.

Obviously, it's not as niche as TSW, but the concept is the same.

 

Can you provide any evidence of this actually being the case?..

 

Have you actually played those games or are you just namedropping big titles? Nobody buys or plays GTA5 anymore, they play GTA online. Fortnite? Played online. It"s online that keeps those games running. I'm not even talking about the size of the studios or the budgets for those game as that does not matter in those cases. The game mode is entirely different.

But if you really know better, nobody is stopping you from starting your own game company and make a train simulator that can rival Rockstar's GTA in profits and player base. The world is your oyster

 

Even if that was the case (which as evidenced by many other games, it is probably not), they could still have released a new version and provided the core upgrade to existing users for free. Then again, the routes would act more like a bundle, but the community would still be moving along with the title.

 

And how in this plan are you getting new users on board? You are just satisfying your own needs. You can now be the boss of DTG. What is your plan to grow this game and make it profitable. Yes you can use Chat GPT to come up with a plan. Remember that consoles are your biggest bunch of players.

I'm curious what you will come up with.

 

If ChatGPT is your best answer, then it's pretty bad

 

Don't underestimate ChatGPT. It has a more creative way of predicting possibilities than most humans