New Epic Games Database Entry - Indirect Train Sim World 5 Confirmation?

Yes, but both the TSW4 and TSW3 Peak Forest packages give you the 2259150 and 2386171 depots, since buying either package gets you the DLC for both games.

 

No, 2259150 is for use with TSW3, while 2386171 is for use with TSW4. Although from a purchasing logic perspective, buying either depot gives you two copies of the Peak Forest DLC, from Steam's perspective, TSW4 will only download packages from 2386171, because 2259150 is not for use with TSW4, but for TSW3.
Of course, this concept applies to older DLCs, but not to new ones. For example, the Blackpool Branch only exists in TSW4; TSW3 doesn't have any related depot for it at all. The same logic applies to TSW5 - if TSW5 does indeed exist, then DLCs released for TSW5 would not be released or used on TSW4 at all. Therefore, there's no need for TSW4 to apply for so many depots on Steam.

 

No. No, no, no. You are reading that entirely wrong: amortization schedules are a bookkeeping convention which determines what length of time the development budget for a product will be "paid off" over. It has nothing to do with a yearly release schedule, any more than buying a car on a 36-month loan means you are going to buy a new one in three years.

 

It explicitly says they have a twelve-month amortization schedule for "Games released every year - e.g. TSW base game".

 

I don't own any of the older TSW games, with the last game I bought being Railworks that later become Train Sim Classic. Where I'm going with my original post is if TSW5 is launched using the same game engine based off Unreal Engine 4, and it looks largely the same as the game before it, why release it?

Or, to took at it another way, if they do release TSW5 why doesn't all past DLC from the previous 3 versions using Unreal Engine 4 work without needing to re-buy some of them or not making them available entirely meaning you need to buy the older game too.

 

Moving it to ue5 like you're suggesting requires everything to be rebuilt from scratch. Ue5 does things differently and it changes how routes are built meaning it's not just a port of the old routes. It's been explained by one of the tsw developers that it's just not possible to move from 4 to 5 without making significant changes.

 

UE5? Never mentioned it. I said if TSW5 uses the same engine as it's predecessors then why release it as a new title and split the DLC's even further yet again...

 

Money? Purely speculation:
1000 people wanna play this game, but in the new routes are interested only 500. Then 500 will buy a new route pack(let's name it "rush hour 2"), but 500 will still playing without it. You get 5000 money.
1000 people wanna play this game, but you are ending support for the old one and launch a new one. 100 of those people says "enough!" and leaves, but 900 will buy it(they don't have other variants). You get 9000 money.

 

Well. The loading screen image filename starts with TSW 5. Typo or possibly evidence?

 

speaking of, here's further possible evidence:

 

Let me quote myself and offer this for a debate....

There's still a chance TSW5 will be an app upgrade (similar to TSW2020 or TSW2 Rush Hour), not a new game though. Somehow I have a feeling they might go the TSC path that was proving to be very successful - and a lot less hassle (actually zero) for the distributing platforms with their web of DLC entitlements and dependencies. We know what happened last year. It took weeks for console players to be able to download all compatible content.

They can still just rename the game without making it a new app with new depot dependencies. Same app ID and depot dependencies, new revision and core route bundle. Just like Train Simulator.

I'd bet a few quid on that happening. Which is what the community demanded again and again, and technically it's the better way to upgrade in-place than to leave a trail of different builds around.

No TSW version was ever a new game, it was a continuation of the same project, same codebase always. There's still a lot of leftovers from TSW1 to be found ("Schedule is empty" font e.g.).

 

Someone has noticed that compared to the original TSW what we have now (TSW 4) is in all respects another program, (although the original contents can still be used currently).
It is curious how changes are always perceived in the future or in the past and never in the present.

 

Changes in the code do not per se define a new game - the decision is completely arbitrary (and marketing driven). They could have done like TSC and update the game app and depots in place which is what will be happening I think.

When I write a program, it's completely up to me to change the version from 1.53 to 2.0 for example. In the opinion of many, the changes in the code did not justify a new game, and it was paid with a lot of overtime work for support, community management and the distributors, and players being locked out of their content for weeks. (And resulted in the biggest ever thread in here.)

TSC and ETS2 (who stuck with "2") have shown that it shouldn't need to be like that. App 24010 and 227300 for ages.

It makes sense for standalone games that feature their own unique content per edition to get new game versions - not for collector based games which have to be long term projects per definiton, as their content development takes more time than for any other type of game.

Half Life 2 has nothing to do with Half Life, and therefore was a valid "new" game.

And I haven't forgotten that they initially wanted to drop ALL old content when TSW2 arrived. The Preservation Crew to convert the old DLC was installed due to community pressure. Sam was heavily criticised for saying "we don't have to do this" on the stream.

So that leaves me thinking they remembered Paul Jackson's strategy to provide the player/collector with a base core that's being upgraded for free.

Don't get me wrong - it's not about renaming the game, which is fairly irrelevant - but selling it as a new game with new DLC entitlements.

 

Why would the go with the same model as TSC?

TSC is a PC only game where TSW is also on console. And since the slight majority play on console it's considered a console game more than a PC game.

And in console world they like to charge for an updated version every year, see EA sports, 2K games, farm simulator.

And some not yearly like MSFS which seems to be on a 4 year cycle as an example.

Focus Entertainment has said in black and white that the TSW base game is a yearly release, and they budget that they will have revenue from it every year.

Therefore it will be a yearly paid update.

They have made it clear over the last 2 years that that will be the model going forward. No lies, no hiding it, no scam.

 

Exact.
The only thing one can do is avoid buying the game. No other solution.
It's not a problem for me.
An annual expense that I can and am happy to support.

 

You could be totally right.

My doubts come from the fact that none of the new TSW5 Steam depots have been detected so far - it should be very easy to make out as it should have at least 136 NEW depots assigned. They have to be booked and created well in advance (and were all leaked last year this time around)

And the opposite is the fact - a lot of new depots for the TSW4 app are booked. All this is costing money, and if you were to release a new game you'd book the DLC file depots for the new game.

This points to a real TSW4->TSW5 update that will happen automatically, just like every other patch they pushed out. As in TSC.

It doesn't matter which platform, PC or console.

 

Why is it so hard for some people to accept the obvious? TSW will not be like TSC. TSC is from the same company so why on earth would they make 2 games the same? TSC is geared at PC players and PC players tend to love this model. TSW is geared towards consoles and console player like yearly upgrades. I know I'm generalising here but with all the signs pointing to TSW5 it's weird to see people speculate now that TSW5 also could mean something else like a TSC styled model.

It's the same as stating TSC will become be more like TSW because with the huge succes of the TSW series on consoles yearly upgrades also will become popular on PC so TSC needs yearly upgrades.

 

Hey - this is just about exchanging thoughts - not "I'm right you're wrong" please. Que sera, sera - anyway, it's not that the outcome of this discussion served any purpose other than to amuse DTG. Nor is it important for me what anyone else in here accepts as the truth, as there's no decision to be made for us here.

There's pros and cons. You're sounding as if console players wanted their upgrades to be new separate games needing a repurchase, requiring them to redownload an ever increasing amount of DLC, which is costly for DTG too. The backlash was huge, and is visible in all platform reviews still.

I still feel TSW4 will become TSW5. A transition, not a fork. We'll see.

 

That's not what I'm saying. If I only wanted to play a train sim I would buy a PC. Most people buy a console to play many games or COD or Fifa. Yesterday I saw an advertisement of Planet Coaster 2 and it reminded me that I had not played that game in a long time. There are so many games coming out that you always forget about the games you own. TSW plays this very well. Every year they remind me they still exist

 

? This is not about PC vs Console. It's about upgrading an existing game or making it a new purchasable independent game. This is completely independent from the consumer platform.

Reading old threads from a year ago, you're pretty much alone with being happy to buy a new game (which is fine with me as it's your own thing.)

And I bet the DTG community managers and support team will fear the day TSW5 will release as a new game - as with the increasing amount of compatible DLC conversions it gets messier and more expensive for them with each release.
My point is: New game - new content. Old game - old content. No "compatible DLC".

Somewhere Matt stated they cannot update the "9" map, which is still in its ugly and useless CSX:HH state and is bare any information that the TSC map has (marker names, auto switch states, browsable objectives, service names etc). The reason is it's a core thing that would break SPG. So why make a new game based on old content? A "game" is the sum of code+content. TSW4 is still based on CSX:HH. (As TSC2024 is still based on Kuju RS and shares code.) Project: TS2Prototype.

Maybe you will understand what I'm about. I do appreciate TSC and Zusi. There's no sense in making a Zusi 4. It's a long term platform that gets refined, better and more stable over time. And content is continuously added and would halt development if it needed to be adapted constantly to a new game engine. That's not what I am interested in, as it is a long term hobby like a model railroad for me.

All the co-development (a never finished game engine and content) led to the increasing amount of bugs in TSW, where basic stuff stops working suddenly. Paddington and Reading are left broken with misplaced lightmaps and broken LOD0 textures for more than a year now. Engine sounds in Notch 5 suddenly vanish. And so on.

If you lose the balance between marketing and engineering, you cannot deliver a solid simulator platform. And a simulator is NOT FIFA, which doesn't require any old DLC.

Jackson understood well that the focus must be on selling DLC for a trustworthy long term game platform. Not pumping out new "games".

I'm driving a car that has been surpassed by three generations now. I'm glad I do. It's a quality Diesel Merc with 430,000 kms by now. Runs like on day one. Way more sustainable than any Electro car that lands on the scrapyard after one or two years. But it seems more and more people with common sense are realising that cul-de-sac. Good and future proof technology does not need to be enforced by politics.

I know there's people needing the thrill of something "new" regularly (Weeks of anticipation, and the thrill is gone after a few hours). Maybe I'm too old for that. Give me new, but via update and not repurchase.

 

If this is not about PC vs Consoles than why still insist on a TSC model for TSW?

Also you are confusing me with someone else because I was only happy to pay for TSW4, I was never happy with having to pay for thunder like what happend with TSW3. Will I be happy to pay for TSW5? That's up to DTG.

 

That was brought up when insisting a TSC model. That's not how console stores work. For a TSW 5 it has to be a "new game" in the console stores. That's just how those stores work. Every time the TSC model is mentioned it forgets that this game also is available on consoles and stores on consoles work differently to those on PC. Therefore it is always a PC vs Console discussion. "it should work like on my PC"

 

(FYI I deleted the post ant was replying to before they replied, felt my phrasing was overly blunt, glad to see ant didn't take it the wrong way though.)

Plenty of console games use it though, Minecraft's one of the most popular games on everything, including console despite (or I'd argue because of it) being a live service game. No Man's Sky is also another prolific example that has a very similar business model. Games like Fortnite & Apex are also popular on consoles with their free-to-play model. Also talking games perhaps more relevant to the board MSFS is very much a live service title, SnowRunner also has gotten several years of support.

On the flipside plenty of more traditional one and done games do well on PC. Doom & Half-Life were made for PC first back in the day, and those are way more in line with most games on console than something like TSW is. And today most console games come to PC, even Sony & Microsoft, who have vested interests in promoting their own consoles, port games at this point, and they do well.

 

I do not understand the console relation still - not saying it is wrong though. But, I do not need to understand everything that's being said I guess.

DTG are a DLC based business. They can sell new DLC for a console game any time without needing to change to a new game that does the same things as the old one.

And Sony or Microsoft demanding DTG to make a new game out of the old is from the realm of myths I'd say.

 

Iirc blackpool branches was on the tsw3 rosdmap last year

 

That would be a fairly on-the-nose typo lol.

It's always entertaining to watch so many people get really invested in this annual debate lol.

 

As long as you keep it light-hearted and fun why not?

Or we could just go and mass bump the old TSW2, 3 and 4 speculation/revelation threads.

 

I explained this already a lot. New games get's months of free publicity on stores. DLC get's totally no publicity on console stores. If you have a big budget you can advertise your DLC or if you are owned by Sony or Microsoft your DLC will be advertised.

So every year when TSW has a new version attention is brought to this game in the console stores. That's the only reason it has to be a new version every year. If console stores would bring every new DLC DTG put's out on the first page of the store it would be a different story.

 

Ok. Wasn't aware of that. Of course they can only use one model - if that's needed to stay relevant on consoles, they need to do it on PC too.

Means they'll have to deal with the ever growing crowd demanding fixes for TSW2, 3, 4 , 5, 6, and so on

We will see.

 

I did put lols on my post- i am having fun!

I wish they would adopt your suggested model, tbh. I do wonder if there are technical limitations on console that make it more challenging than we might suspect?

Financially, it doesn't seem like it would make a huge difference to do an annual paid release vs an annual route bundle but only DTG knows what their DLC attachment rate is- maybe switching would cause them to raise DLC prices by 25%?

What would the reaction be to something like that? It would be cheaper for more casual players but more expensive for people who buy everything. It's always a balancing act for DTG lol.

 

Well, it is certainly a more complicated way releasing it as a new game. It needs a lot of organisatorial stuff being worked out, depots, bundles, carrying over entitlements, profile importing issues and the roll out. All this is not needed when you stick to one app and update it in place.

I bet if you met Matt in a pub and had a private conversation, he'd tell you (after a few pints) he'd be glad to not having to go through this each year. Also you could save on support staff and teach them how to build routes instead.

Could they sell their TSW4 shirts for a charity cause maybe?

 

Didnt want to buy 4 but at £11 I did just for JT BPO. For full enjoyment of cathcart you STILL HAVE TO BUY all dlc .. £12 for 380 and most like the same for the 158 Reskin!

39000 or what ever and rekketon DONT REPLY! Fake spokespersons make me laugh.

 

This is only my personal conjecture, but it seems slightly odd to me that a completely new game would be released so soon after the release of the PC editor built with, and for, TSW4? In addition with each new game there has always been a selling feature; free roam, photo mode, suspension improvements, volumetric fog, consists and of course the PC editor. Just what else can be the new selling point to warrant a completely new game - they’ve exhausted reasons now I’d of thought.
My gut feeling is that it will either be something similar to Rush Hour or a TSW2024 the same as TSW4 but with new routes to buy alongside.

Being an enthusiastic pc player I also don’t rate this as a console first game. There is a good sized community out there modding and improving this game and a website dedicated to that. In addition the only new content being built is for pc users. By comparison console users are a long way behind that.

 

I think TSW4 needs to follow the same approach as ETS2 and ATS and TSC, with each update being free to the player. Similar to how games for PlayStation receive free updates every once in a while. I feel TSW4 is the best of the TSW series and I also don't think there are many more features that can be added. Each route has been getting better and better in terms of scenery and old routes have been getting remasters bringing them up to TSW4 standards. I think updates here and there are all we need. Having to buy and install a new TSW game each time that is between 100 and 200GB is crazy.

The only things I can think of to improve TSW4 would be the dynamic weather system abruptly changing during a career scenario and timetable sceneario, red light bugs, lighting issues when traversing through tunnels, how the simulator handles stutters and loading of scenery objects. I also think the only true way to fix the older preserved routes from TSW2020-TSW2 are to bring those routes up to TSW4 standards via remasters so all routes can be uniform in terms of quality, scenery level, etc.. Perhaps the next iteration of TSW can come to us via free update and be renamed to TSW2024, similar to how TSC2024, and each year for both simulators get their free updates

 

I just want to remind you'll that previously we could upgrade from TSW 2 to TSW 3 for money (not a single new route). DTG removed this option, they said that it was not popular. I wonder why someone might not like the idea of buying a set of fixes and new bugs?

So we can close the topic about free update - with such a politics(selling patches) it's impossible.

 

I believe we shouldn't have to pay for fixes and newly introduced bugs that didn't exist before. Those fixes should not be locked behind a paywall. ETS2, ATS and TSC have been successful without having the need to pay for a new iteration that has fixes for bugs. If more problems exist in each new iteration of TSW, why even pay for it if problems still exist. I think it would be in everyone's best interest to have a free update. If the next TSW is under development with a whole new set of bugs that break things, then don't release it at all

 

Of course, it's only speculation that that's the reason...

 

I completely agree with your point of view. But, unfortunately, we have what we have.

 

I tend to agree with this. Also, there's an ever-growing number of 3rd party developers in the process of building routes, so whatever comes can’t be something that disrupts them.

 

there really isn't a selling point for there to be tsw5. the game over all is finished and there no point in upgrading to unreal 4.27 unless dtg want to make that the selling point for tsw5. i think this upcoming release is dlc pack like rush hour. unless dtg is thinking of changing the franchise name maybe that it.

 

I think these empty/unused depots will remain empty/unused (just like in tsw2 and tsw3) and they will release a new iteration of tsw

 

The one thing though that we do know that is fact is they expect a yearly revenue from a base game upgrade every 12 months.

As I memtioned before its out there in black and white.

So if it is a update in the Rush Hour vein or a new game either way it will cost you money for it.

It will not be free like TSC ever, they have confirmed that already. See my post above that shows that they expect profit from a yearly TSW base release every 12 months.

So yes it is confimed it will not be free even if its just an upgrade.

 

If it's not free then it won't be an upgrade but a "new" game

 

True. It's just an observation and a conclusion drawn from that observation. Not a statement by DTG

 

I'd happily buy it if it is.