Will The Class 150/2 In Tsw Ever Be Remastered Back To Life?

I think a lot of us were looking forward to the class 150/2 coming to TSW when it was announced back with WCL but sadly, it turned out to be a poor train in terms of sounds of physics.

I remember a lot of people were pushing for it to get fixed and rivet did update it but made it worse. Now, it’s forgotten about and has not been updated in a very long time. The class 150/2 is one of my favourite and local trains and it’s sad that it turned out how it did in TSW.

If skyhook managed to get the Class 158 pretty much spot on in terms of the high revs and physics, why couldn’t rivet do the same? Rivet almost seem to slack when it comes to sounds and physics.

The class 150/2 in TSW just reminds me of a train that was neglected, when it had big potential. I would love the 150/2 to be remastered and fixed and brought back to life on a new route, if that ever happens.

A route suggestion for the 150/2 could be Blackburn to Manchester Victoria, through Bolton (west/left) and Tomorden (east/right). The route can include the Northen Rail class 150/2 (maybe even a /1) in either a 2 car or 4 car formation ,
Edit : A northern rail class 158, and depending on the timetable/year, the northern rail class 142 pacer, as well as freight. Having travelled a fair bit on these lines to Manchester, I think it would be a good route, not a popular route but it’s quite scenic with the Darwen moors as well as a lot of stations to cover. The trains can also be stored at the fairly new Blackburn king street Depot which was built in 2017 I believe, to accommodate for the class 195’s as well as other northern trains. What are yours guys thoughts about the 150/2 and it’s potential?

 

Imo WCL should be the next route that gets the cathcart/WSR treatment, scenery overhaul, added whistleboards, rebuilt class 150 and a Valenta HST as a loco add-on

 

Yes, I agree. It’s a shame because a lot of these routes have so much potential when it comes to being remastered but most of them get neglected. WCL, I’d definitely like to see a remaster for that as well as BML, a new timetable, scenery improvements and just overall, better to play!

 

Sadly I don’t think the 150/2 will ever be fixed. The only way we’ll get a proper 150 is if another developer makes it. It’ll have to be a 150/1 or a brand new /2 possibly for a route like you suggested.

 

The Class 150/2 could be featured as a loco DLC for Glossop Line, operating the Rose Hill Marple services as far as Hyde North. It could give Rivet the opportunity to improve the Class 150/2 whilst the DLC itself would cover the development costs.

So far no 3rd party has done anything like a remaster, except possibly Rivet with the Island line 2022 if that even counts as such.

 

I’ve commented many times on various threads about the 150/2. It’s absolutely awful. The sounds are terrible. As a result I never use it.

 

Rivet make broken things all the time. The only route they did well.was isle of wight 2.0. Since then everything, not so much. I would like fife circle as its a local one to me. But the state of it makes me think twice. And the 150 is a train i would like also, but not till its been done better, like the 158 standards

 

Yeah. I hope someone does either make a new one or even make a /1, the sprinters are iconic.

 

Neither, it’s just unplayable

 

Exactly, I wish skyhook could like take over rivets 150/2 and put it to good use.

 

Yeah I’m not familiar with glossop line as I’m not local from there but just even glossop I feel like, should have more life as well, that could put the 150/2 to good use aswell.

 

Although Skyhook took the HST and reworked the sound for the new engine variant, has a third party developer even taken another third parties’ loco and reworked it?

Skyhook did the HST that DTG brought in.
Simtrack have done a 323 from DTG too.

any others?

 

JT modified DTG’s class 47 & 08
Rivet modified DTG’s Class 37

 

Only example I can think of is skyhook making the scotrail 158 for rivet's fife circle and Edinburgh glasgow, even though it's skyhook that are making it its technically for rivet's routes

 

Interesting. Maybe just convenience more than anything else.

The 170 that Rivet made.. is that a decent build? Something another developer would take or ask Rivet to rework?

 

Same here, I just use it as static stock, mostly in GMPTE livery on NTP

 

Agree

 

Sadly Rivet have even more of a fire and forget approach to their content, than the DTG overlords!

Not sure if due to arrogance, ignorance or plain incompetence.

The regrettable fact is, now the 150/2 is in game, even as botched as this one is, little chance of another developer coming along and making a better version.

 

After the disappointment that was Fife Circle, I'm of the opinion that Rivet should no longer be allowed to make TSW content. Fife's scenery should be on par with Cathcart Circle remastered as a MINIMUM, there's no excuse as to why it looked like a route that released during TSW2's time.

What's even more disappointing is that DTG were planning to make Fife themselves, but someone somewhere thought that it would be a good idea to give it to Rivet... I mean, doesn't their previous Scottish release in Edinburgh - Glasgow not set red flags off in one's mind? They did the bare minimum in updating that release as well, before moving onto the next route.

When you compare it to the work of JT, Skyhook and TSG. You've really got to start asking the question, why hasn't DTG done anything to hold Rivet accountable? It should now be a matter of buck up your ideas, or we'll have to take you off the third party programme. They've had more than enough chances to do so now.

If you're expecting them to come back and remaster West Cornwall Local, your hopes are better off being placed somewhere else. The route should be binned, remade and extended by a more competent party.

 

In a nutshell, that's just Rivet for you...

The 150, a lovely model, but let down by poorly implemented audio and physics.

The Class 385 was exactly the same. Unfortunately Rivet seem to release one update for any of their content and then go completely quiet and forget about any previous content hoping that by being silent, people will forget...

Personally I think going forward, there should be a quality standard that needs to be met before any add is released.

 

Even dtg have had releases that players said were poor. So did skyhook. So why does it only apply to rivet?

 

I don't think DTG have had anything quite as bad as the 150 and WCL or the 385, or FCL and they have shown an increase in quality and now release DLCs of a good enough quality. Skyhook's MML was a howler, but they have made a consistent and very worthwhile effort to get that route to a very good standard and perhaps after Blackpool the best detailed in game, definitely for the British DLCs. Rivet have been consistently providing DLC with major flaws with perhaps one update to get it to a mediocre level and then don't seem to learn their lesson in the next DLC.

I would love nothing more than for Rivet to prove me and everyone else here wrong with what we have said, but they have had plenty of chances to redeem themselves, whether this be updates or through giving a real good quality DLC and they are still yet to take one of those lifelines.

Note: When I say Rivet/DTG/SH that is solely aimed at the organisation and not the individual people which make that up.

 

It's just one bad release after another with Rivet, the other developers learn from their mistakes. Skyhook did release a flawed MML, but they've put the work in and what was initially not a good release is now one of TSW's best offerings. Rivet have shown no such effort with their products and that's without mentioning how JT came along and blew everyone away in their first ever TSW offering, even going so far as throwing in some extra liveries for the 142 and 47 that DTG would've likely charged £5 per piece.

With all this in mind, you've got to start asking the question. Why are Rivet lagging behind the others? Their lower quality output affects TSW as whole, surely DTG should step in and start having words with them, and if they already have had words, then it clearly hasn't made a difference...

The only product from Rivet that I can genuinely say is okay is Isle of Wight 2022. I had hoped that route was a turning point for them but the following releases sure proved me wrong.

Like Matt#4801 says, we're speaking about the corporate body. Not individuals.

 

I think this is all very biased - everyone's focusing on Skyhook's short MML route. Rivet delivered FifeCircle and it took them just a few weeks to sort the issues, as a bonus Leven branch will be added - no one appreciated that, instead of months (and the help of a well known modder) for MML. Ratcliffe was shut down, no smoke from the towers anymore. The 158 still has broken gauges in winter (I felt gaslit by Adam as he said they were fixed) and no exhaust emitters, cab windows only opening halfway, their EMT HST still has super low res texturing in the cab.

If the DB 187 was as popular as the 150, discussions would be different. That was completely left broken by Skyhook. For me the 150 works and it's fun, feeling like an old workhorse.

Rivet made one of the most appreciated and scenic routes, the Bernina Line. People complain that it doesn't go to St Moritz. Does MML go to say, Sheffield? GWE to Oxford? RSN to Siegen?

Rivet has announcements and destination displays you can set (not sure why DTG even implemented F7/F8 keys as they seem to be unusable), and generally much more cab interactivity plus better modelling. I do enjoy the 385 as it is now, it has very satisfying rolling sounds and looks awesome.

 

And extension to Plymouth imo

 

I think that it is very unfair to call people biased. I don't think players are being biased at all, Rivet continue to produce sub standard poorly produced add ons... Yes Skyhooks route is slightly smaller, but what does that have to do with it? Skyhook really took on board all the criticisms of the original release of MML and totally turned it around (and even more!), and thats the point they have really tried and listened to constructive criticism from the community. Rivet on the other hand, well where do I start? They'll release some silly updates that really don't make much of an improvement to the original build of their release. They hardly listen to any constructive criticism, and you'll most likely get banned from their own forums for pointing out errors. Their add ons are built and then practically abandoned... The Fife Circle route was a complete embarrassment for them. The quality of the route is very poor and as many others have pointed out, it has got all the quality of a TSW2 route. The route is very dead, and was released in a poor state from the start. There is not much effort in terms of the timetable services and scenery that seem to have just been thrown together. The only redeeming feauture was the 170 modelling standards, which I will always credit the 3D artists of Rivet for with every add on they work on. But as with all their products its the rest of the route and stupid things that let it down. They didn't even bother including services into the depot at Haymarket as it was to much bother for them (every route DT have dome usually has depot and ECS runs to and from the depot as part of the immersion). Exactly the same goes for Edinburgh to Glasgow... Really shoddy work on their behalf. So the criticism is completely valid. Going forward better quality control is needed, and should not allow them and anyone else to release a route, unless they can meet a certain standard/criteria, and also comit to ongoing updates for a route where there are faults that need patching/correcting, and not just completely ignoring faults and abandoning the route once the cash roles in... the list just goes on with them.


Edinburgh to Glasgow isn't really that large of a route at only 42 miles long... What updates has it had? Not many... Still awaiting a better audio mix on the 385... still awaiting the fault with outside sounds coming into the cab, which Rivets only fixed one cab end not having sound from the outside... Still awaiting many fixes that could of been done in the time frames its been out. But Rivet have done practically nothing to improve or update the route. Now Skyhook in a similar time frame has completely overhauled their MML route to a extremely high standard... So what's Rivets excuse?

 

The 385 sounds are just unacceptable and they really need the sounds remade. They sound NOTHING like the real 385s. I really wish DTG could just take over Rivets routes and clean them up themselves as we all know Rivet won’t ever do it. DTG know what they are doing proven with Cathcart and LIRR.

 

Sad reality I guess.

 

Well said, well said

 

Yeah the 385 is awful. Never been on one before but looking at videos online of it departing, it sounds nothing alike. The running sounds don’t increase with speed, the train at speed just sounds like wind, even the physics I still think need working on.

 

Hmm. In the end it's like looking at troubleshooting forums and deciding DTG should not be allowed to make TSW any more.

*getting my coat*

Each to their own. After the last update I think the sounds are ok on the 385. If not, there's a mod for PC.

 

About the only thing Rivet do well is interesting scenarios, don't just grab a run from the timetable and add a bit of crappy weather.

 

None of them have sound recordings to begin with and scotrail still hasn't allowed a sound recording session.

 

Matt addressed this is the most recent roadmap stream, but that doesn't stop Rivet themselves from revisiting the 385 and putting a better audio mix together from the existing sounds (ie, cancel out the extremely vulgar nails down a black board braking sounds, fixing the outside noise inside the cab that still exists from one end of the cab but not the other, and also smoothing out the existing audio. All this as a temporary measure will not take a lot of time or effort, and just comes across as absolute shoddyness on Rivets behalf.)

 

Ignore our resident "wise guy/unofficial spokesman", who's post you responded to..!

Rivet are right next door to where these trains operate so even if official recording can't be arranged, nothing to actually stop the sound guy buying a day pass or weekly season ticket and travelling on the trains and grabbing some reference material until he is hearing them in his sleep. Ought to help with mixing what sound files they do have...

 

At the very least the 150/2 should be worked on so it can couple up to other second generation DMUs like the 158 and 142

 

The 385 and the 150 are honestly the very worst trains in TSW for its sounds. The 170 might not be perfect but it sounds pretty good. It’s a shame because Rivet are really good at modelling the trains. They just for the life of them can’t get the sounds properly accurate…Don’t know if they are just being lazy with it or they genuinely find it difficult.

 

Agree. I feel rivet products have veen laking for sure. Dtg should get shot of them and use developers that actually want to do a good job for us consumers

 

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall and know exactly what Rivet have on DTG that allows them to get away with pushing out their mundane content. Or is it just that DTG lack the backbone to say, “Not good enough”?

 

Absolutely! I was so excited for that route to come and for a short while I put up with the sounds but after a bit it got too obvious and I've not played it since....
I wouldn't mind even if just the 150 got updated, I'd be happy at just that to be honest.. please, Rivet/DTG?

 

Imagine it was dtg that did the sounds for the 150. That's why rivet get away with everything

 

You've got better chances of having a pet T-Rex than Rivet doing a remaster on any of their DLCs lol

 

Spikee1975 seems to be the only balanced voice here. Voicing frustration is one thing, but constructive criticism is notably lacking in the thread. It is always better to temper criticism with an alternative idea. I wonder if more effective updating would result if DTG adopted Armstrong Powerhouse habit of introducing updated versions at fairly reasonable prices and discounting for owners of earlier versions. I can hear the howls from the cheapskates, but the current situation (and beating up on developers) is obviously not producing the results we want!

 

To be a really accurate class 150/2, the toilets would have to be constantly blocked and flooded, with water spilling out under the door into the passenger compartment.

The units always used to stink like a mobile sewage works in the summer months, and the smell would nearly kill everybody standing on the station platform when the passenger doors opened.

"See how long you can hold your breath without dying of suffocation" was always a fun game to play between stations... or you could just wait for the next train, and pray it's a class 156 or 158.

 

If Skyhook had been the dev instead of rivet it would have been sorted. Rivet just grab your money and run.

 

The problem is, level headed, fair, constructive criticism has, and was put forward at the time of the release and the proceeding years since WCL has existed. Has it changed anything? Nope. It was just totally ignored by Rivet, who then moved on to create more content with the same issues. It seems their philosophy is to cash in, release one minor update to an add on and then completely forget about it and ignore any remaining issues and move onto the next project...

I'm not saying your wrong, as in most circumstances I'd agree with you. But people have got passed the stage of 'constructive criticism' when it comes to Rivet, because it falls on deaf ears. They just move onto their next project and abandon previous add ons, once they've milked what profit they can from it. So that's why there is so much bitterness and resentment towards them in particular. And to be fair to the TSW community it is completely warranted.

 

Hornby tried to do the same with their TT model range.
Shot themself in the foot, because now nobody wants to make TT models.

Sometimes it's not that easy

 

Absolutely agree. People were fair back in the day when it came out, constructive criticism was given. I believe it led to WCL being patched once, there was a minor tuning done to the 150 and a couple new landmarks added, and that was it. A couple months later and we were hearing about IOW 2022.

Release, constructive criticism, one minor patch, move on. It's what happened to IOW, WCL, E-G, and if it weren't for the Leven branch I'd be willing to bet that Fife Circle would have already seen exactly the same thing.

When constructive criticism, suggestions, advice and reasoned thought are ignored out of hand and discarded as though they never even existed, all one has left is frustration. At that point you have two courses of action: vent, or silence. Those who choose silence, well, they're silent. They don't talk about it, you never see them. Those who don't stay silent will show the frustration they've built up, because they have already seen that constructive criticism leads nowhere. Unfortunately what we're starting to see now is that this is no longer isolated to one route or release, but is now the case with Rivet as a whole due to the repeating cycle I described before. I remember when Fife was announced, instead of what you'd expect from such a reveal where people would be thrilled to have the Forth Bridge in the game as well as finally some Scotrail diesel power, over half the sentiments I recall reading were people sharing the dread they felt that Rivet were the ones producing it, based on their prior reputation. And what do you know? That dread was exactly right, because it probably was the most botched UK release since MML.

Skyhook however do not follow Rivet's cycle, they painstakingly nursed MML to being one of the best UK offerings and had a redemption arc great enough to warrant a Whang! video, and today I believe they are one of the most beloved 3rd party developers in the community. When they announce a new release such as with the Cargo Line series, you see nothing but hype and eager speculation in the forums. And on the back of that, you hardly ever see anyone making such frustrated threads about Skyhook products.

 

Jesper's attitude during the YouTube live stream of the Fife Circle route was all I needed to make-up my mind.

You could tell that he really didn't want to be there, and his attitude during the entire stream was enough to put anybody off buying the route. Listening to him answer questions with "This will be fixed before release" or just a flat out "no" was painful to sit through.

I kinda vowed never to touch another Rivet TSW product after that, and I think a lot of other people came away feeling the same way.