Tsw 4 Is Officially Leaving Gamepass July 31st

Confirmed by Eurogamer that as of July 31st 2024 Train Sim World 4 will be leaving Xbox Gamepass, TSW 5 is coming.

 

The cat is definitely out of the bag

 

Genuine question, why are people so against the idea of new TSW games? Whenever they release a new instalment to the series it's essentially just 3 new routes and locos for the price of 1.

 

Because we have to redownload everything, achievements get reset.

Some people don't have superfast Internet so think how they feel, plus TSW4 is still pretty much unfinished, and they are banging out another version

 

Well for starters, having to reinstall everything can be a pain for those that don't have fast internet. Also while it does come with new routes, not everyone may be interested in those routes so it may be a bad deal. I hardly played any of the core tsw 4 routes due to the issues some routes had and just lack of interest. If a route does come out that may interest someone, a player is essentially forced to buy the core game which comes with a route they don't want along with the dlc. It's a terrible business practice

 

I don't really care about a new game, all bothers me is the fact I have to reinstall everything. Takes a lot of time given the amount of DLC I have.

 

#Firstworldproblems.having to wait to reinstall everything. There are more annoying issues than that.

Like new bugs. Lost acheivements. Having a paywall to future DLCs.

If your only worried about reinstall times then you are in good shape.

 

Plus on PS5 its an absolute mess to download DLC. Download some routes for TSW4 on PS5 and it downloads the TS4 PS5 version, the TS4 PS4 version, the TS3 PS5 version, the TSW3 PS4 version, the TSW2 PS4 version. You have to quickly go to downloads and cancel all of the unnecessary ones. If you own a lot this takes a lot of time.
If they keep releasing new versions of the sim where you can use your owned addons, they really need to come up with a better way. This would mean working closely with Sony. Which I know they won't do prior, because why use that logic of making something seamless before a release.
Some people won't agree but wish it will get to a point where everything is downloaded as a whole, and the game looks at what you own and only makes that DLC available to you. If a new route comes out TSW gets a patch adding that DLC, but you have to buy it to have it unlocked in the game however its already downloaded and installed ingame.

 

Please do not get offended, but your way is even worse
In you way of doing that would mean everytime there is a new DLC, you would have to download the whole game, so that the new DLC could be available if you buy it, but that also mean even if you do not buy it, you have to download the whole game including the DLC you do not have or want

 

Again, this strikes harder to people with bad internet connectivity, make your own conclusions from that.

 

Even with a fast internet connection, it takes time to redownload everything as unlike the PS3 for exemple, we can’t multi download stuff at the same time and on PS5 it’s still a mess, it downloads both PS4 and PS5 versions.

What bother me the most is the fact that on every new TSW, some DLCs might not be available on day one or even worse, we have to wait for a couple of weeks, I’m not even talking about all the broken stuff added which makes many DLCs from previous iterations almost unplayable.

DTG will then tell us the usual “we identified the issues and a fix is coming” then months later it’s less broken, but still, lot of stuff will stay in the same state. It’s almost like they never learn.
The same will be for TSW6 and 7… bis repetita…

 

Off topic, but if you haven't played A Short Hike before make sure you do that before the end of the month. A very short, but very good game.

 

That’s not true. You can go into your add on’s when selecting the game. There is a select all option or you can choose what add on’s you wish to install.
When purchasing dlc that is compatible with PS4/PS5 versions, DO NOT INSTALL IT YET, As it will install both versions. If you select the game, then add on after your purchase, then it will only download the PS5 version.

 

Be interesting to know everyone’s internet connection speed on here, since I see the “I have to re-download everything again” argument come up, time and time again.
I have fibre optic 100mb and it takes me roughly 1 hour and 20 mins to download all 90% of my content.

 

About 2 hours, cable internet 5G on Series X. Also 90% of all DLC.

By comparison it took me 4 hours to install MSFS standard edition all the world updates plus about 20 DLC.

But because I may have to reinstall when MSFS 2024 comes out is not going to make me say no to buying it.

 

Only because DTG brakes a hell Lot of older content with every new iteration and drop it without fixing it. With Tsw4 the substitution system got entirely messed up which is a total noGo for me. This was definetly perfect working with tsw3..

I can afford to buy every dlc, but DTG lost me as a supporter. The 158 will be another skip (until sale ), because i felt screwed with the release of the 187. Skyhook had plenty of time to fix it, but they didnt.

Another reason is i have the railway in my daily work and plenty of routes to play, so there is a very high chance i might skip TSW5 entirely, and postpone my buying cycle for 10-12 months.
Still will support Devs like TSG with day1 purchaises, even if i have to wait with firing up the content.

Im really willing to pay even more money for content as most players here, the 380 / fife circle are routes i would like to buy..., but
Dtg lost me as a customer thats for sure.

Still enjoy tsw, so im not quite at the point of abandon it like with tsc, but i decided to only spend money on dlcs where i think are full of passion and extramile. (Jt blackpool branches i would even pay 60 bucks, really nice done with the variety)

 

On a good day 32 Mbs, this is in australia using fiber to the node.

 

It's not so much how long it takes, but the fact that you have to do it at all.

Some pain, for very little gain.

I'll go out on a limb and say TSW5 is just going to be TSW4 will a bit of lace sewn on the hem, I get that it comes with new routes, but they could leave the base game alone and just add the routes as DLC, rather than have to start everything again for the sake of a new number.

 

Because there is really no need to make a few core changes, alter the interface a bit and charge up to £60 for it. Force users to spend several hours downloading the DLC because the new version doesn’t go in the same folder structure as the old where all the content pak files are sub foldered. Doesn’t matter whether you have fast fibre broadband or still on dial up (!), it’s a cumbersome exercise any professional game developer worth their salt would try and avoid putting their customers through.

Then as noted, there is the paywall for upcoming quality DLC, such as the next JT route and in all likelihood Tadami and the illusive route ATS are working on. None of those will get a TSW4 version, you can be sure. So even if you just buy the basic TSW5 pack with one route you may not particularly want, still going to cost a minimum of £30 to stay on the bandwagon.

To be fair, it’s not just DTG who do this. N3V formerly Auran have got away with it for years with Trainz, albeit every three years or so. £60 these days for the next version which, under the hood, offers no real substantial changes, content no one actually plays and of course buoyed up by the acolytes who will defend company policy to the death…

 

The concept is neither new noe nor is it bad, fifa does the same every year. Also i like the fact to get 3 routes with a new stock.

But im not accepting the fact, that my paid dlcs are broken / bugged after 2 years just because DTG is too lazy for solid polish.

 

saying it’s not bad then your evidence being a game produced by the company with the worst reputation to ever exist, shows the exact opposite

another thing is the alternative people suggest (rush hour bundles) maintains the 3 routes bonus does not change, the only thing that changes is theirs no restrictive iteration.

 

By now, it is clear they WANT the restrictions. They want to put a paywall between customers and the future content they might find interesting. It is absolutely laughable they do this when features of the previous game are not even finished. What's going to be the hook of the TSW5?

"No, seriously, guys, this time the suspension is really coming... post-release... but soon... really soon... couple months tops."

 

For me it’s the ethics of the thing, they are basically blackmailing us to buy the same game over and over again every year just so we can buy routes in the future. Despite all their showy PR which seems to have worked on some people, presumably those without decent standards of behaviour themselves, there are still many of us who have old fashioned morals and who can see past the glitz and their grooming of the client base on their streams, and see what they are really like behind the mask.
Because I enjoy TSW I will have to eventually buy it, again, but make no mistake this time I shall wait until it’s very cheap as my protest against these money grabbers. The front men of DTG might be decent people but there is something mercenary hiding on the background.

 

For me it's because features for one game aren't fully implemented before the new one comes out.

 

Its funny to see how people complaining about the way how DTG choose their path to new content and every year is it the same thing here on the forums.... You can set your'e alarm in your'e calender next year 15-7-2025 and you can purchase popcorn in advanced....

 

for me it’s 2 things,

1. your current content won’t receive any updates/fixes to it despite the fact you’ve purchased it all the same, the deciding factor on that being whether you own unrelated content.

2. locks off new dlcs for purchase unless you purchase the core bundle, they say it’s all about building your own collection yet they as close to force you as they can to own 1 of 3 routes.

 

As much as I agree they most likely won’t change, it by no way means I’m In agreement or going to pretend I am.

 

I never say you have to but if it will bring a change....

Besides...
The thing for me is that i have the feeling that what DTG will choose its not good at all... There is always something to complaining and its good that DTG choose his own way and doesn't follow what the community wants... If they do they can change every month the route... Every month there people with different wishes.

 

The thing that winds me up about a new game is that I am forced to buy content I don't want in order to get content I do want. For example I had to get TSW4 with ECML just so I could get BPO and its probably going to be the same with the next JT route.

And with DTG sitting in their comfort zone of the modern English EMU hole whatever comes from their summer release may not be something I'm particularly interested in.

Im not having a go at EMU content I understand some people love it. But personally its not my cup of tea and never has been. But you have to pay the ticket to get through and pay for the JT content and the sim track PFR pack (IF that ever comes out).

 

Despite all valid reasons and arguments what was mentioned, good question about the "hook".

I have a few guesses which would perfectly hook a new Tsw:

- Expertline DLCs incl. Fault simulation
- Route Merger / Extensions
- Timetable Editor with CC capability
- Suspension was announced already. I really hope it becomes a standard feature since the fun and immersion is so much higher with a suspension physic.
- (multiplayer )
- Freeroam 2.0 (a player can copy a 24h timetable and place static stock or additional services in a free roam menu, which is saved in that copied timetable. This could be a separate menu where you select the route and only the player generated / changed timetables are visible.)

- last: Extended guard / conductor feature for all routes

 

Well, from this list, the first 2 are DLC-related, not core related. Multiplayer is not happening and the rest definitely doesn't warrant a new game. And therein lies the problem. Changes to freeroam and maybe timetable editing are not unlikely, but it's nothing big enough to justify TSW5. Same as with TSW4 - some selling points were features that were supposed to be a winter update for TSW2

 

Probably just a coincidence. I would not read too much into it. #sarcasm

 

True, but TSW3 had also nothing on the bone. Ohle Sparks, Clouds and Bugs on top of the List, thats pretty much it. How is this justified in core features, what can considered a medium upgrade?

Here to say the passenger system was botched entirely leaving some routes like bakerloo with empty stock until today. That was supposed to be rush hour in tsw2!

The 3 routes are well made to be fair.

 

This is definitely an area where Microsoft are way ahead in the console space. It shouldn't be this hard, and it especially should not be as complex as Sony make it for the end user. When I install a new TSW on XBox or PC it just downloads that specific version of the game and every compatible DLC for it I own.

 

TSW2 = £4.99
TSW3 = £2.99
TSW4 = £6.60

I don't care if DTG release a new TSW every year, I just wait 9 months and grab it dirt cheap... It's the crazy people who drop £50 on day one purchases that I worry about.

They must look forward to new bugs, love being the first people to find new bugs, or both.

 

they often got called the paid beta testers before though must admit I’ve been among them every time until this year.

do those prices include the 3 routes ? If so pretty nice deal

 

Quick question, does this mean our fellow game pass players lose access to the game and have to wait until TSW5 release, then wait and see when/if it comes to gamepass to play the game at all ?

if so I can imagine that’s not particularly good for the “in depth” players on GamePass.

 

It takes a lot to offend me so all good. I understand what you’re saying. Just there has to be a better way for Sony and DTG DLC implementation. TSW5 comes by which means it will try to download 7x variants of TSW3 DLC. Imagine how many with TSW10. DTG should already be sitting with Sony for a workaround in the future. Unfortunately DTG are reactive not proactive with tasks unless there are dollars in mind.

 

Yes, which is quite annoying. Whilst I actually own TSW4 on XBox, I use the Game Pass version for cloud gaming and as soon as it leaves, that is no longer available.

For those that only play on Gamepass, the best option is just to pick up the cheapest version in a sale.

 

thought so, it’s pretty bad situation then, seems to remove any kinda point to GamePass.

 

I'm not against the idea of having new iterations of a game every once in a while. Every year though is a bit tough for me, but acceptable - IF it's actually a NEW iteration and not the SAME GAME with SOME UPDATES. Downloading the game and re-downloading the content is OK for me, even if it takes a while. But releasing the SAME GAME WITHOUT A BIG DIFFERENCE TO IT'S PREDECESSOR is just wrong in so many different ways. You're essentially creating a subscription for updates to the game - with the price of a standalone game every year. Bugs and glitches? Well just buy our newest iteration that also has the same bugs and glitches as the last iteration, but with the chance of them getting fixed before a new one comes out! New DLCs? Well only for the latest iteration! Which probably will be considered legacy as soon as the newest iteration comes out. Support? Only for our newest iteration! But any meaningful changes compared to the last iteration? Maybe two or more. If you want more then wait for the 8th iteration of the game!

TSW 4 is basically TSW 3 with some cool new features - but everything else is still the same. That's not going to change with the next TSW. Still TS2Prototype, still the same bugs as the last TSW, still the same feeling, still the same experience.

 

Yup.

Just hoping that they have a deep, deep sale on TSW4 between now and the 31st, or I'll have to go back to TSW3!

 

I've lost count how many times I've seen that game mentioned in these arguments.

 

It does have its similarities to EA, especially the Sims, considering TSW is quite an uncommon game production with living off continuous DLC and iteration every year rather than a large chunk of core gameplay being the main part (though sims is not an every year release, but FIFA I believe is)

 

I enjoy TSW massively, I love the overall style of the game, so in no way is this an "anti DTG rant....I'm not from Tauranga

A new game every year is financially driven and makes no sense development wise. This business choice causes an abundance of issues.
The current method of a new TSW game every 12 months results in future updates to existing content and access to new content, being locked off. This method is the proof that the overused quote, "Don't like it, then don't buy it", does not work nor does it fit the business model.
Alongside this, DTG take announce new features every single iteration, but are not included upon release or not fully implemented. I.e. Suspension.
In addition When TSW 2 dropped, players had to wait a few days for their existing content to join the game, it was promised to be there upon release. Was it? No.

I've said this before and will always maintain it, TSW was released far too early and I'm not sure DTG ever really had a plan for it.

"Essentially just three routes and locos for the price of one" - This is how I want to see it, however this content will have a 1 year lifespan for the current iteration and then discarded unless you pay.
Paying just to keep access to updates and to gain access to future content, is the main concern, especially if the new content offered or bundles given, is not to someone's liking.

Overall, a new game every single year will only see benefits for one side, DTG. Players will HAVE to pay just to keep access to updates, future content and new features or additions to it. Features will suffer from rushed implementation or lack of and then the game will suffer substantially quality wise, as a result.

 

Good news i guess for... Always loved new routes and locos. only concern is it breaking the mods.

 

Yeah, I got TSW2 and TSW3 standard editions. TSW4 was the UK regional version.

 

RailSimulator.com, now Dovetail Games was ironically founded by the ex-vice president of EA Northern Europe.

 

I think people get too fixated on the, "it doesn't justify a whole new game" part of it.

I look at it this way- TSW is really the only train-sim i play regularly, for various reasons: SimRail has potential, but is too bare-bones at the moment; TSC, Zusi, and Run 8 are just too much hassle and i end up getting frustrated and uninstalling for one reason or another. Railroader and Derail Valley are fun in their own right, but TSW's timetable mode always brings me back in the end.

So, where does that leave me with the annual update?

I used to get really angry about it- especially the TSW2020>TSW2 transition, where it looked like we were going to lose all of our existing content. TSW2>TSW3 wasn't the best either, but tbh TSW4 has been much improved IMO- yes, it's missing advertised features (suspension system for one), and yes, that's wrong. DTG should be much more careful about not promising things they can't deliver on schedule.

All that being said, I'm looking forward to TSW5 or TSW2025, or TSW-MegaAwesomeSuperEdition! I want to play the best version of TSW, whatever it's called. I'm just not getting hung-up on the naming convention anymore lol. I do wish DTG would provide a paid upgrade path for those who don't find any of the bundled routes very compelling.

I'm hoping for:
Finally delivering the new suspension system, and making it a standard feature going forward

Introduction of passenger announcements as a core feature and making it a standard feature...

Further editor improvements so we can actually play some of these awesome routes the community has been working on.

Continued improvements to sound, lighting, and the dispatcher.

Improvements to Free roam: more spawn points, more available paths, improvements to formation editor.

Better coordination with third-parties on release cadence and scheduling. The whole Fife Circle/ScotRail 158 mess could have been managed much better IMO.

Interesting routes for the launch bundle- hoping for something along the quality of the Vectron 193 if a loco is part of the deluxe edition.

Fantasy Wishlist:

A simple timetable editor. This may never be possible, but i'd love to be able to tinker with timetables without having to manage the entire editor.

Route mergers. Again, will probably never happen with the existing timetable mode, but would be cool to play around with in free roam or enable community-made merged timetables.

 

Yes, that's how I see it too. My God, it'll just take an hour for the content to be transferred. But the fact that all the useful and sometimes really necessary mods no longer work is what annoys me more.