Train Sim World 5 - The Cat Is Out The Bag

The bugs were the TSW4 "features".

 

Sure the Vectron was released with bugs day one and still not fixed.

There are core elements of the base version of TSW4 broken from day one. Never fixed or addressed and at this stage ever will be and now it's time for TSW4.

I have to say overall the support for TSW4 since release has been very poor in terms of addressing fixes and bugs. I thought 3 was bad but 4 takes it to another level.

I'm not holding out much hope for the quality of TSW4. I know I will get TSW5 but not on day 1 like I have with all previous versions.

 

Pushing out TSW 5 when TSW 4 still doesn't have all the promised features, e.g. suspension. DTG at it's best.
I don't realy get the annual release strategy, but I arranged with it.
Bought TSW full price, bought TSW 2+Season pass full price.
For TSW 3 I waited one year and bought it with a huge discount. TSW 4 is now 80% off on PS Store so finally I'm going to jump on board, have fun for a year and then going to buy TSW 5. Lesson learned: Never buy DTG stuff full price.

 

The only thing about a new game is that I have to buy TSW5 with a route I might not be particularly bothered about just to get to be able to pay for the JT content and hopefully some day the simtrack pack, which is the stuff I do want to play.

 

Abhorent practice. But this is the world now. Poor quality for more money, broken promises and under delivery.

 

I just find it amusing how TSW 5 was leaked before the suspension update is out, only 10 months late I suppose. Steam is still probably gonna be left to rot as well as US freight so the idea of yet another game doesn't exactly excite me anymore. There's also an argument to be made about false advertising considering Tadami Line and San Bernadino were announced back in February for TSW 4 but now it seems like they're only coming to TSW 5 based on the roadmap timelines.

 

I've already written this several times.
The RM is subject to changes, movements and cancellations (even epochal ones).
In practice everything can be or not.
My advice (once again) is to propose any content when it is close to release.
The example of the BR 420 is emblematic.

 

So the roadmap is useless. It should just focus on content that is close to release. They keep announcing stuff way too early.

 

yea you have to be careful with 3rd party announcements, some TSG stuff was announced during TSW2, some still in development (not blaming anyone of course) but just saying.

Edit: I also wonder if the US route will make it out before TSW5.

 

I tend to agree.

I think the original purpose (holding themselves accountable and avoiding talking about features that never materialized) was good, but there's no reason the roadmap can't just be internal for the most part, right?

And as far as the customer-facing portion, there really only needs to be two categories: not ready to reveal/discuss, or ready to reveal/discuss. It'd be up to DTG to decide where that dividing line is.

I think they overcomplicated the whole thing tbh.

But it's a balancing act for sure- of there's NO news at all, people start thinking the game is dead, etc.

 

Disagree, that would render the Roadmap even more pointless than now, and would give us no idea of the direction of the game. We don't need more restriction of communication between DTG and the community.

 

I think the current roadmap is the best we’re going to get without issues.

 

we need stop buying at all

 

This all wouldn't be that bad as I understand the monetary side of things.
BUT:
- Downloading all the content again and again is not that cool
- Just like with TSW3 to TSW4 new bugs get introduced (likely, right?). Just to remind, for example the LFR BR103 where the PZB indicators didn't properly work anymore. Fixed a few weeks ago, finally.
- Compatibility with mods and Editor creations in general is a big question mark to me. I've got heaps of mods that just generally improve the game. Spikee's Cabcam mod for example, or mkjcp's transition mods which makes the 218's engine room walkable and so on. These are really mods that I do not want to miss again ever. Whats with all the content creators working in the editor right now?
- Is the DLC collection accessible from the launch date or will we see problems with that again?

And finally:

- promised features? Suspension? This stuff was PROMISED for TSW4 and now we only have it on like 3 trains and the next installment of the series is on the way. Seriously?!

 

The problem is not downloading your content again, which i understand is annoying. What makes it abhorrent is the following:

Undelivered content and fixes

All the promised fixes and content get kicked down the road to the next iteration. They had a road map and they haven't fulfilled it, with outstanding stuff yet to appear. I mean technically will everyone get Fife Circle fixes and the new station for example? Can they say for sure if the release date is pushed back? Remember they want you on the new iteration.

New promised routes

Underhanded road maps promising new routes like the JT route and Japan for TSW4 will be pushed behind a paywall. They know customers want this content so in order to secure and force the upgrade they plan for these things that are on a TSW4 road map to later in the cycle. That's why they never have definitive dates and everything is in limbo regarding release dates. It means they can change anything they like on the fly. And lets be honest, JT was the golden goose for TSW4 last year why pass up the hype and opportunity again?

Upgrades to old routes

Again another underhanded tactic is to start upgrading routes, some for free and some for money. i noticed the free ones usually have paid content as a carrot on a stick like Cathcart circle. They understand FOMO and know people will want the new timetable. They update the route but know you want the rest. its almost like its 70% of the package free with the other 30% paid for.

This is all done to force you to upgrade. I understand when people cite sports games and other franchises like Call of duty, but those games don't carry DLC over game to game, those games don't make the dlc susceptible to breakages or future updates and upgrades.

yes you can get it on a sale eventually but realistically it wont be far off a new version anyway. instead of concentrating on giving customers what they desire and doing a game every few years they want to basically sell an upgrade package and lock content behind it.

 

You must think the devs work for free.

 

Not this garbage again. Tell you what mate, seeing as they need paying why dont you send them a portion of your pay check every month regardless? Maybe set up a go fund me page?

Also address the points I made. They are looking at forcing you to upgrade year on year which is a pretty crappy underhanded practice which quicker than usual will lock you out of content for as you described in one of the threads, essentially the same game.

 

The devs already get paid. Not having a paid update is not going to make the devs go hungry or make DTG go out of business. Comments like these seem to be made to deflect from valid criticism of a company's poor business practices

 

They didn’t when they released rush hour and there was no iteration that year.

 

Hasn't every route upgrade been free for the owners of that route, or am I forgetting something?

 

technically LIRR cost but it was more extensive and extensions and new train but apart from that there’s only SEHS which needed TSW3 to access.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Yes. That proves my point then. Rush hour wasn’t free.

 

I get bored of the criticisms that’s the problem.
You think it’s poor business practices, I don’t.
They’re doing what they need to do to survive as a company.

 

They don't have to release a yearly paid update to survive. The core rush hour update which was also included the change to Unreal 4.26 was free and DTG did just fine. There was no paid update. They didn't go out of business when they did that. Comments like yours are just a way to try to deflect from criticism because it's not you want to hear

 

You seem to have zero sense of proportion using words like these. It completely undermines your arguments by making you sound - and I hate to say it - somewhat unhinged. I was playing TSW for a while yesterday and, while there are aspects of it and the way that DTG go about things that irritate me, I came away feeling entertained, with a sense of relaxation and enjoyment. If it really upsets you that much then please, for your own sanity, walk away and find something that makes you happy, or at least happier. No one is saying that you shouldn't report issues or complain about things you don't like, e.g. update policies, but why oh why do people like you on the one hand think that DTG is out to get you and, on the other, attack anyone who might have a more rounded point of view and understand that no one is forcing them to continue to spend their money on this stuff. You've clearly decided that DTG have evil intent, so you have all the information you need to just walk away and be free of this torment.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

And they still didn't fix the passengers or implement rush hour passengers on all routes of the pack. So always the same.

 

Your rants are almost incoherent at times. You seem to be barely in control of yourself when you use words like 'abhorrent' within the context of this 'discussion'. I am perfectly capable of reading and understanding what you write, so perhaps you need to think more clearly about the way you communicate your points?

Never believe anyone who sells you something on a promise that one day it will be better. A lot of companies do it - often with the best of intentions - but more fool us if we buy into something that, in its present state, is too incomplete to be worth what we paid or are paying for it.

I don't feel that DTG are quietly steering me towards a subscription. I can see it possibly coming - there are valid arguments for it in terms of longer-term sustainability - and I will make a decision if that day arrives. I subscribe to some things, software included, and I've chosen not to subscribe to others, which has sometimes limited me in terms of what I can do with the alternatives available. But that's my choice. In the meantime, I have a game, with add-ons, that I enjoy playing and, to me, it has generally been worth the price I've paid, taking into account the things that are good and not so good from my point of view.

 

Anyway, this thread has turned into another 'enough is enough'.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Oh I see. So it's ok for you to spout your generally incoherent nonsense - putting words in people's mouths, accusing them of being stupid for liking something, making general ad hominem attacks about people's ability to read, write, understand, think, etc. - but it's not ok for those people to put an alternative point of view. Seriously, it's you who needs to grow up and stop trying to dominate a forum for all with your repeated aggression towards others who might not agree with you. I would genuinely be interested to meet you in person and have this conversation then because I am pretty confident that you wouldn't behave in the same way, unless you genuinely are unhinged of course (I don't believe that's the case).

 

But how are you steered onto a sub? When I bought this game it was called TSW2 so I was aware a TSW3 would be imminent. When TSW3 was announced it was very obvious to me DTG would release new versions on a very regular basis.

The only thing you can accuse DTG of is making you hooked on trains. Most people can't seem to get off the tracks anymore

 

^^ This 100% ^^

 

So who leaked TSW 5?

Are you sure its going to be TSW 5?
Nothing has been officially announced, how do you know its TSW 5?

I mean most of you lot were sure that we were going to get the ECML from Kings Cross to Peterborough in TSW 4 last year?

 

But tsw4 in general was pretty much confirmed when it was leaked. We had some downplay it last year but those that tried to downplay the obvious were wrong so it's safe to say that TSW 5 will definitely be a thing especially considering that there is an in game file that is named TSW 5

 

Nah, thats fair enough. Personally I will wait for the announcement, but to be honest I couldnt really care if its called Train Sim World 5, Train Sim World Rush Hour 2, Train Sim World 2025. Its whats inside it that stirs my interest.

Hentis

 

Its frequency. Releasing a game every few years is different to releasing something annually.

 

I think the biggest tell is the fact that DTG haven't bothered to comment on any of the 'TSW5' threads or in fact the forum as a whole since the Direct announcement.
Save for Jan's post above about keeping it civil there has been no interaction from admin in any of the threads. No confirmation, but perhaps more telling no actual denial, which ultimately is leading to more animosity and arguements amongst forum users.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Fair enough Jan.

 

I think tsw4 coming off game pass is a big indicator.

 

They have told us Dovetail Direct (whatever the date is, I cant remember) is when everything is revealed, thats it. Thats when they will give us more information. In between when the July Roadmap was released and upto the point of when Dovetail Direct is they wont confirm or deny what is in DT Direct or if TSW 5 is a thing or not. Its like this every single year where certain people will just wind themselves up into a frenzy because of the speculation. They will look forward to releasing the info on the said date But they wont come on the forums and tell you "Hey Guess what TSW 5 is a thing, We'll tell you more in the Dovetail Direct event in August" That will present more posts, arguments and users generally venting spleen allover the place. Dont expect Dovetail to come on and say anything, apart from people to keep it civil.

Hentis

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Yes that is the proof that there must be plenty of non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) kicking around DTG Towers at the moment. As a result no one 'in the know' will post anything either way about TSW5 for fear of losing their job. So, really, these threads are rather pointless.

My only annoyance on the whole TSW4 matter is that we never got a fully working Editor, nor Formation Designer nor the all round Suspension improvements. Seeing as TSW4 was sold with these 3 features guaranteed then DTG should really hang their heads in shame (and be grateful that no-one went to the Advertising Standards Authority about it).

I wonder what will be 'promised' with TSW5?

 

watch streams hosted by JD very carefully, he's known for leaking new game launches.