If The Worst, Comes To The Worst…

To me, the saga of this poll is just someone planting the seeds of a narrative they can run with later, it's going to be a I knew what would happen from my poll, they should have listened to me type of thing, that's how it appears to me anyway......

 

I took part in the poll partly tongue in cheek as I think it is the wrong time for the poll as we don't have a clue what the new iteration is going to contain.

I chose I will buy it, as it stands I will, I purchased TSW4 and don't regret it. I wasn't going choose I won't buy it and the other option D is for those who can't make up their own mind and have to decide by what others say, they probably shouldn't be in charge of spending their own money if they can't decide for themselves.

The two new options are pointless as we don't know what on earth we are voting on!

As for the "countless threads" you refer to. Many of them are the same people chewing over the same subjects. We always get "they fix don't bugs" when they demonstrably do, maybe not enough of them or timely enough in some circumstances, but when I see the phrase "DTG don't fix bugs" it tells me there is not point even reading the rest of the post.

I think you should define rubbish as I haven't a clue what you mean? If it is an unplayable mess then yes I would hold off, if the route choices are really uninteresting to me, then I will hold off. There will be issues and there will be bugs.

I think the reason that most people still seem to be fine spending money on a new version of the game is that they enjoy the TSW experience and want to continue to enjoy it and enjoy the new content. Most I would say, don't think it is "rubbish".

 

This poll makes no sense, it has already been edited several times and additional answer options have been added,
this distorts the final result. In addition, the last two points are completely identical, just worded differently.

 

To me, this thread/poll whatever it is, just demonstrates once again that the Mods were right to ban polls last year and very wrong to allow them to resume.

The OP is all over the place with this and so, of course is the entire thread. The options make no sense and the idea that the author of the thread is " studying " and " making notes " sounds like self-rationalization. It's very close to trolling.

Needs to be closed and polls need to be banned again or at least placed in their own sub- forum so we can avoid accidentally stumbling upon them.

Like most of us here, I enjoy the game, critical of it as I often am and the notion that I or any of us would boycott TSW and bite the hand that feeds our passion is pure nonsense. Enough of this silliness already.

 

I beg to differ….there will be ONE winner & thats DTG!
Unless people vote with their wallets if TSW5 is NOT upto scratch then there is simply no real incentive for them to fix anything & all we will get from them is the usual line of “we’re looking into it but its more complicated than we thought” blah blah…

 

just like the proverbial goalposts moving…lol

 

Seriously?!
So, this thread auto-opened when you logged in to the forums did it? Unlikely, you must have read the thread title…you didn't ‘accidentally stumble’ upon it..you knowingly opened it!

 

how would dtg win if no one is buying their products?

 

The pessimism is strong in this poll. The general idea that somehow DTG are trying to make a terrible product or con players into buying content has always been a flawed way of thinking. TSW is far from perfect and DTG face many struggles and make many compromises with it, which do get passed on to the players, but there isn’t a good vs evil thing going on between the players and the devs here. By all means if TSW doesn’t meet your standards then don’t buy it but don’t think for one moment that your standards are a benchmark. They are not. Everyone who doesn’t buy can call their decision a boycott if they wish.

 

By thresults so far have to agree DTG wins

 

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If DTG see this poll forum they will break out the champagne smiling ear to ear knowing tsw5 already successful.lol

 

As have I based purely on the feedback Ive seen here. To those who argue feedback is useless, Im a sample size of one that says its not

 

Not all the feedback regarding Rivet is bad and not all the bad justified. Although I agree they certainly don't make things easy for themselves.

 

Looks like that leaky faucet may have made tsw 5 or whatever a success already even before the aug 20th direct .

 

With the track record of TSW4 (no new Routes released since April 2024), I will not buy 5. Currently I am playing TSW3 because no new updates break the signalling or cause stutter or otherwise bugged performance. When TSW5 is released and updates are stopped for TSW4 in Spring of 2025, then I will re-load my TSW4 content (because I do like Blackpool, ECML, Gospel Oak and to some extent Antelope Valley).

 

The only thing this poll/thread has achieved is to get those of us with a pragmatic view of the company and game to actually come down on the side of DTG! So if the intent was to stir up a bit of dissent or anarchy, as a rival to the EisE thread, it has failed miserably…

 

I often come to the internet when I want my opinion changing, said no one ever..

Although I did find myself googling thermodynamics earlier. Educational, certainly. Do I now have an opinion on thermodynamics? No. Do I like DTG? Still no. Will I read anything on here to change my mind? Have a guess..

Im trying to illustrate the futility of most of what we see on here, my own prose included. Its kind of interesting in its own warped way though. If I get it, I'll let you all know. I know you cant wait to see which way I come down and that it will heavily influence your own decision..

To be fair, Im pretty happy with TSW3 and the East Coastway. That alone has been enough to keep me happy. Maybe there's a greater warning for DTG- dont get too good (risky much?) because contentment will set in with what people already have.
More likely is that Im actually more concerned about changing anything in my install now Ive finally got it looking and behaving the way I want it to. That took flipping ages!

 

But that doesn't help console users with choice as those are PC only.

And 60% of TSW players are console users.

So again we are back to DTG being the only game in town.

 

I very much doubt that 60% of the player base are console players.

 

I very much doubt the majority are on PC.

 

Has been confirmed by Matt that consoles are the largest player base. Due to the uncategorized "all-in-general-discussions-with-meaningless-thread-titles" mess these forums are, I cannot deliver the source, sorry. Means "source: trustmebro"

I'd say it's roughly like this

Steam: 20%
MS Store PC: 7%
Epic Games: 7%
Console Sony & MS: 66%

My impression over the years after lots of reading, calculating popular mods downloads vs estimated total players, etc. Could of course be wrong, the actual numbers are undisclosed and "none of our business".

Note that there seems to be also a wealthy minority who paid DTG twice, running both on Steam and PS.

 

If it’s real then something green and cheap is coming for the german route

 

Oh I know but didn't want to re-open in any detail the still festering wound from last weekend!

 

Fair enough.

 

Although I'm actually quite looking forward to driving it. The Vectron was one of the best things to come out of TSW4 and if we do get it in a passenger form, either layered or with a new route where it operates - I'm in!

 

I never bothered getting it because i see them as modern rubbish but i admit if it does happen i’m sure i’d enjoy driving it on decent length passenger. I just hope they make the proper coaches for the company that must not be mentioned and no re-use the ic coaches.

 

At least it sounds like an electric loco unlike the screechy Trax things. Though still learning for a 141 or 151...

 

I've decided I won't be buying it until a DLC I want requires me to purchase it.

The Content Creators Club is still in Beta mode and the Suspension system promised still hasn't been released and looks like it'll be August at least, Nine months after release of TSW4. For me it's simply not good enough.

 

I suppose so, i would also love a 141 or 151 i’m out in germany at the moment bashing 218s and i had a 112 (a proper one not east german rubbish) on a rake of silverfish out of Stuttgart and it bought back so many memories and it just felt real.

 

This is exactly my thinking too. In the seemingly unlikely event that a desirable American route comes with TSW5 or whatever it's called, I might open my wallet this summer. More likely I'll sit tight until something interesting shows up like JTs next offering.

 

Im sure TSW5 will be up to standard with all new features. But in Tsw 4 the community had to act as betatesters for all broken things on older routes. Thats a noGo and total inacceptable.

 

My base line is that I will be buying it for what we think will be the UK route. Even though the era is all wrong for me, can’t spend 4 years in the late 70’s and early 80’s commuting up and down there and not own it in a sim. Whether I go over that base line depends on what the European and US content are confirmed to be, but one of the better electric locos in a “Jolly Green” colour scheme already swaying my decision there, too.

 

This... Especially after the recent ATS scandal with the new Class 745...

I don't care if Dovetail Direct announces a whole new game, or a core update with a paid addon like Rush Hour. Like you said, I buy it for new routes. I personally would rather have a core update so I don't have to redownload all my DLCs again, but it's not a deal breaker, just time consuming

 

for me it will come down to the selection of routes and trains/locos... I highly doubt they will go backwards in terms of functionality... so it comes down if I perceive new content as sth I will play... German and Austrian especially... as for UK, depends if I like the overall appeal of route/trains... as for US content, there I am looking into how strict the safety systems will be - and if it is like Antelope, I expect at least some challenge with managing speed and such, and variety on the route itself

if there is some appealing French route, it is day one purchase cos we dont have enough French content, especially for TGV Duplex

 

It's a couple of years ago now, but Sam said on a stream that the division was almost exactly 1/3 each on PC, PS, and Xbox. Don't remember if it was also him or someone else who said that the vast majority of console players were still on 8th gen, but that was said outright as well. I'm sure the 8th gen numbers have moved some since then, but not enough to make it not worth supporting.

 

So the overall point I am trying to make still stands however.

Dovetail have promised a feature with TSW4, we are now a month and a bit away from most likely TSW 5 and it is not here. This is nothing new either. The editor was announced in 2018, and was only released a year ago in a broken sate.

 

As others have said, it’s very difficult to choose my response here. For me, and this is just my personal opinion, the core game feels like it’s in a reasonably good place now. I haven’t encountered huge bugs or issues in ages. My biggest pet peeve is that some of the destination screens on older German trains randomly go blank or don’t take inputs at all due to compatibility issues, to put things into perspective. I just don’t really play a lot of video games right now (surprisingly train nerds have a social life as well, lol), so I definitely won’t make a purchase at all costs. I’m even reconsidering getting some of my favorite wishlisted routes in the current PlayStation sale because I don’t know if I’ll play TSW a lot until the fall.

Thus, whether I purchase TSW5 at launch or not will largely depend on the routes/trains and new features. I would like to see at least 1-2 routes that excite me in order to consider the discounted pre-order (which will hopefully return this time around). If there really aren’t any exciting routes (which I don’t believe considering the UK route that was unofficially revealed is one I traveled on last year, pretty much 365 days ago!) or groundbreaking features that elevate my existing content, I might as well skip the launch offerings and go for a starter pack containing an upcoming standalone DLC in fall/winter (they did this for TSW3 and 4 with some of the early post-launch routes like BCC). Or I’ll even wait until the core game is heavily discounted, which always seems to start happening around Christmas.

Basically, I’ll decide individually based on the announcements they make and my eagerness to play the content they unveil, and won’t lock in a decision prematurely.

 

My two biggest outstanding issues with the core are further fixes to the save game including more than one slot and more user control over graphics, particularly brightness, contrast and gamma to balance some of the more severe effects of TOD4. There's also still the odd stuck train which DTG need to allow deleting in Journey mode so that runs can be finished. But none of that I would regard as show stopping, or throwing my teddy out the pram and boycotting TSW5 as the OP seems to be inciting us to do.

Most other quality concerns comes down to specific DLC related issues and in the case of Rivet the simple answer is I don't buy, or wait until there is a substantial discount.

 

The abandonment of steam and the lack of any historic UK content in the last couple of years by DTG and their entrenched view that such content is not viable is my biggest gripe in terms of direction.

The parlous state of the save game feature if the biggest functional issue for me. It doesn't work properly and why on earth is there only one? Why not have five slots or something? We have this great feature where we can be the driver for a shift, but only if you can play for several hours in one go, or at least be able to leave your computer switched on and not have to exit the game.

However I still get a lot of enjoyment out of TSW and I think generally it is going in the right direction. If they could get over this aversion to period content, especially steam then it would simply would be in an unassailable place. I would probably not even look at other train sims, well not unless something very special was released. However TSW is too one sided. Maybe JT will continue to fill the gap for BR classic traction. However without steam, which started the railways off, and was the main type of traction in the UK until the early 1960's, a massive part of railway history is being ignored and a completely different experience to the modern EMU's is not present, apart from the small unfinished selection we have been left with.

 

Yes I omitted that one, good shout.

 

One of my biggest gripes has always been around LOD popping and the shimmering of thin assets liek overhead wires. A lot of that can be fixed by engine.ini tweaks though so thats not really a serious whinge. I have to agree that the core product is rather good. I completely understand why so many people buy in fully.

On the flip side I can also see why some people get irritated at the annual re-release with unfinished/undelivered or sub-optimal features, a bundle you may have zero interest in but which you have to pay if you want access to other DLC.

Its definitely not as binary as it might seem. Personal choice of course at the end of the day.

 

Still waiting on the promised Multiplayer from back when TSW was first announced.

 

If the worst comes to the worst I will just enjoy playing TSC. I have a lot of TSW DLC, however, it just doesn't cut it for me. Just finishing off a nice 240 minute run from Plymouth to Paddington.

 

Yes there are a lot of conjoined routes or routes that can be merged in TSC. If you look at my Northern Railrover itinerary post in the Classic Off Topic section, it is surprising how much of the UK network is there. You couldn’t even begin to do that with TSW, much as I enjoy it. Currently heading back into Edinburgh on the Fife Circle with a Class 68, then going to do the old JT route out to Dundee and back, probably drop in a Class 25 or 27 (yes I know it’s the old IHH model with flawed sound, but better than nothing) on five Mark Ones. With a buffet car. Can’t do that in TSW.

 

First off DTG would never release a new game with bugs in it. Not like they have ever done that before? LoL

 

"unless people vote with their wallets"

 

After playing TSC I love the longer routes in the NA and UK I did a 100 mile near end to end run on WCML north yesterday in quick drive ran a short freight with a class 47.

 

I'm just a newb, bought TSW4 in the last month, hardly any exp with it.
I just wanted to offer a software development perspective.

Now if DTG is promising to fix bugs and then never fixing them, that's a problem I'm not addressing here. That's bad.

What I am addressing is the idea that software companies could do more testing before the release. To greatly oversimplify, there's two approaches to software development: Waterfall and Agile.

Still oversimplifying, in the old days Waterfall project management ruled the day. Software project managers spelled out every step of development from soup to nuts. They would toil for a long time before releasing anything to a customer. This was a great way to give customers something they don't want and waste a lot of development cycles.

At some point software developers realized they needed to involve the customer much earlier in the process. Software development has moved to an agile model. You create a "minimally viable product" and get it in your customer's hands to get feedback. Customers are much more involved in the process and drive feature development.

This is already long enough, I'll just say, you're getting features in your hands much sooner because of DTG's approach.

Again not trying to excuse any actual abuse of customers

 

The trouble is, you have to keep on paying for them before theyre actually in your hands. Editor and suspension are two examples that spring easily to mind where they were promised for one version but released in a following version (or are yet to be released). Im sure there's more, but paying for a product based on its advertised features then having that products support ceased and having to buy the next series to 'maybe' see the features you originally paid for but failed to get is bound to raise a few hackles here and there.

Additionally, Im not sure that re-releasing what is broadly the same product pretty much indistinguishable from the previous iteration counts as getting a product in our hands sooner when we pretty much already have it and are merely paying for the opportunity to buy some DLC otherwise locked behind a paywall.

 

Why so pessimistic? It is more likely they will come with some good things. If it is really that bad, what are you doing here? There are other nice trainsim games.