Upcoming Release Db Br 101 ‘expert’ - Coming Soon!

I understand that the sales numbers on this will be like a vote between the casual players who will feel absolutely ripped off and the "sim" players who will finally feel like they have a complex piece of content that they can relate to (and this time even with good documentation) so, let's see how this turns out. I'm definitely going to try it though.

However for the price, I would expect it to be able to run any service that the current 101 can run at the moment (I mean it's the same loco so what's the problem) instead of just a few new services and maybe even get added to older routes similar to how the Vectron is pushed just about everywhere.

Also is there any hope for an early access to the manual?

 

[ZITAT="Spikee1975, Beitrag: 868956, Mitglied: 43945"]Im Vergleich zum fehlerhaften und wenig aufwendigen Copypaste-Skyhook SR 158 sollte dieser für mindestens 40 € verkauft werden.

Sie erhalten eine echte Lokomotiv-Simulation plus Steuerwagen, anders als alle anderen hier!

Fragen Sie sich, wie gierig Sie sind und alles für ein paar Cent haben wollen. Dann fangen Sie doch einfach an, die Loks selbst zu bauen.

Sie können es sich nicht leisten? Dann haben Sie Pech gehabt. So einfach ist das. Es interessiert wirklich niemanden.

Ich könnte mich beschweren, warum ein Ferrari teurer ist als ein Kia!

Dieses Gejammer über die Preise ist einfach völlig lächerlich.[/QUOTE]

The problem is, that we already have an Br101, it's not like it's a new train we have never had in TSW

 

Sorry to answer my own question, but the layering question has seemingly been already answered HERE in the July roadmap stream

The upshot: the original 101 will be used for layering. DTG will 'identify opportunities' with TSG for potentially duplicating timetables for future routes where the 101 is used to allow for use of the Expert edition.

 

To what I have read so far and knowing the general quality TSG stands for I am more then happy to pay the full price, as I think it will be worth it! Looking forward to the stream tomorrow and the final product next week

 

36 euros ?

 

First day purchase for me. Thank you TSG!

 

I don’t think the quality will be a problem, especially with TSG. The problem with the price is that it’s relative to the rest of TSW.

MSFS is a silly comparison, you can sit in a plane for hours on end making all sorts of journeys.

Kia VS Ferrari? Really? More like that subF1 car you get for a cool couple of mil & you can ask them to bring it to you, then you can drive it for an hour before they take it away. Stupid comparisons.

With TSW there are virtually 0 routes that will get you sufficient gameplay from a study level model. KWG is probably the closest for an IC run but even that is pretty limited in terms of the timetable.

The timetables included in this pack are one which gives you a 20-30 minute run (although more than half are actually 5 minute runs between 2 stations) & then another which doesn’t allow you any speed.

Even if every current 101 timetable in TSW was available to this pack, there is still a gaping hole in the actual point of the product, it’s still held back by what TSW actually offers you in terms of gameplay, and that ain’t what this loco is for.

I’ll echo the above too, we need clarification on what’s going to happen regarding layering with this loco.

 

I‘m surprised so many people already know what it’s worth without even seeing it.

I‘ll be waiting for the preview and the manual.

Train Sims are one of my cheaper hobbies in terms of hours of enjoyment v‘s price. Credit to TSG for trying something different. Hope some of you people never get into Lego, that‘ll really upset you.

 

I was probably expecting £20. At this price point, I’d expect more layering (there are 10 more routes), and more coach types.

I probably won’t play the expert mode much, the cab car is the main selling point for me, and I want to see that on more routes

 

id argue Salzburg Rosenheim is the best IC Route in game, services are over an hour long, multiple stops etc, so next to Dresden a good route pick. Although i also wish it appeared on more, but as it seems to need a seperate TT for that, well see what the future brings for this and the og 101

 

dtg_jan can you please add the link to the article on the opening post?
Many of us use the forums to find out about new articles and get to them when they are published.

Link: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/db-br-101-expert-coming-soon

 

Thats not the point at all! Yes its for sure a good product with extreme quality but for people they have not the knowledge and have enough at drive a train from a to b it is it than fair to ask the same price?! They offer the option to turn it off... Why you offer that?! If it is Expert than its Expert in my opinion right?

My further question is also how will it looks like this whole expert mode LOVE most drivers never setup the whole thing with pzb lzb etc... they take over the train and very rare they start the loco from death situation.... The result will be you get a loco with a lot of option but less usage of it. And copy timetables and 3 scenarios is not that much for such price.

 

With all the extra work that has been done on the locomotive and cab car it seems fair the price they have given it, so I'm going to buy it and I bet it will give me many hours of enjoyment and satisfaction. Sadly it's going to be the closest I'll ever get to the experience of driving a real locomotive, so I'm not going to skimp by saving a few euros until I get a discount.

TSG have been brave embarking on this adventure and I'm sure they have put in a lot of hard work over many hours and I personally like to reward all of that.
I also understand the gamers who see it as expensive, but the company will have done their calculations and decided on the most suitable price to make it profitable for them. Making this niche product is risky and I hope it works out well for them to have other expert versions in the future.

I am also going to make a criticism regarding the little interaction that we are going to have in the schedule mode.
I think they should have made it compatible to use the expert model in all the routes where we already use the old 101. I do not know the additional work it would have entailed, but it would have given much more value to the product and certainly would have made it more attractive for many players who see it expensive to buy it.

I expect a lot of good scenery creators, like Tom Fresco for example, to build some very nice ones on many routes, I will be keeping an eye on everything they do.

 

Except the price is that the most worse thing of this product its a little less for this price.
The price point for me is not against the quality.

 

Please no Expert Locos for TSW anymore
The Standard Locos and Trains are enough for Casual Player

 

And I bet a study level aircraft in FSX or MSFS is much more complex in terms of systems and aerodynamics. I will admit to buying a couple of PMDG products over the years but even then not after they got stupid expensive. I also remember buying the Level D 767 which has given me many 1000's of miles of virtual air travel and still fire it up occasionally now, when I can coax FSX into life. But that was the exception and tended to come with multiple liveries, navaid database for the FMC and various other features actually conducive to enhancing the in flight experience.

Put another way, if I want a sim where I can push a few buttons, Derail Valley looks after that as does SimRail and even that rather odd Trans Siberian game, all for less than this one loco DLC.

 

I am definitely buying this when I get my next salary, and will probably print out the manual so I can learn stuff before jumping in... at this point I can drive pretty much any German/Austrian loco in the game with relative ease at the level it is presented at, so I welcome the challenge to learn some more real stuff, since as some others here, I dont see myself becoming a train driver in Germany or Austria anytime soon, cos my German sucks you know what and it is not very likely to change soon... so for me this is a great chance to learn stuff more in-depth and closer to reality

I am especially looking forward to the data input, fault seeking and such... besides the other new shenanigans, like GSM-R, which I know jack.... about

and I certainly hope this does well, since lets say Siemens Desiro ML in expert mode is sth I would love to get my hands on

 

I don't. I would like the 101 with a better soundset and physics set-up (which will be here) and I would like the Cab Car.

I am not interested in the super-mega-realistic simulation - TSG know full well that not everyone will, hence why they added an opt-out. There isn't an offer for the Cab Car independenly or any sort of addition to the original 101.

Two Problems here:

1. You were advocating it should be more expensive. Which is a self-own and would be fulfilled in the form of this little thing called a "donation".


2. The 'Expert 101' locks the Cab Car out behind the very steep paywall.

I already own the 101. I have no interest in the extra simulation aspect. I would like the cab car. I will not pay £30 for the Cab Car.

I'm not saying it should be the same price as the 380 or 158, I recognise the effort. However, I would say £25 at most (that's double the 380) for any Loco DLC no matter what.

Erm, yes. And that's totally fine. People are allowed their own ideas of enjoyment and that's not for you to dictate.

To quote from earlier in this post:

I'm not saying it should be the same price as the 380 or 158, I recognise the effort. However, I would say £25 at most (that's double the 380) for any Loco DLC no matter what.

It would be great for said customers to not have people advocating that TSG/DTG should be given more money than they've asked for!

If you're suggesting that TSW should consider this as the standard then I think you'll be reading of Dovetail's bankruptcy in the news.

Apples and Oranges.

The TSG 101 gives you nothing new to do other than check faults, cold start and 3 scenarios on SRH. The article implies that the layers on SKA, HMA, HRR, etc. Are all gone.

In the instance of longer routes - there will be something to do.
Long routes are also a minefield. KWG is much longer than LGV but substantially more boring. ECML is longer than BML but is also considerably more boring.

-sake.

Good to see that PC Master Race's brother, Simulation Purist, is still alive and kicking.

 

If i have understand Matt than this will the only product and i believe the price is also the point in the amount of work. I do not believe we will see this any time soon again! Its more a "hobby base project"

 

Thats my point as well! Its not that i think its not worth the quality for me but there are so many users they didn't need this whole Expert mode thing and they are forced to buy it. And you try to force people or have this intention with a button to turn that whole expert thing off

 

OK, 36 euros, but where are the other routes where the whole train fits perfectly ? What is the situation with Ebula ? If it is not possible to copy exactly the same system, why not create a similar one ? Will there be a discount for those who have already bought the basic 101 DLC ? Sorry but this is getting to be a lot. To ask so much money for an "expert" physics and a new IC Steuerwagen is ridiculous. I believe that someone put their heart and soul into this project but someone has really overlooked this. I personally was really looking forward to this DLC but for this kind of money no way. My option should be 36 euros but then all German routes should have service where it fits (Hamburg - Lübeck,Vorarlberg,Kassel-Würzburg,Bremen - Oldenburg,Munich - Augsburg,Cologne-Aachen).
But at least giving some kind of discount to those who have the basic 101DLC might help this situation.

And maybe the locomotive is not the first place to look for fault if it stops somewhere, but rather the price.

This is exactly how to spoil a very good opportunity. Take a note.

 

I have no problems with the price considering the advanced features it will come with. However, I'll definitely not purchase this because the next version of TSW is around the corner, and given Dovetail's track record of not updating older products with the new feature set (wheel motion blur for pre TSW3 content, suspension not coming to every train, lighting such as headlights not updated for TSW4's lighting system, and countless more left behind), I can't support this practice.


For a train to be priced at the same level as a route, I would need a guarantee from Dovetail that this train will be updated with every feature set in every future version of this game. Paying a premium price only for it to be left behind by the time TSW6 or 7 comes along is simply not acceptable.

 

I have the same right to claim something is worth more as everyone that claims it would be too expensive.

For the rest - "I would like this but not that" - can't help you. It's an offer to take or refuse.

PC Master Race? Never implied that - though objectively it's the game that's better on PC, not its players. Please don't make insinuations.

Do you have anything against people wanting deep simulation? Can't we coexist and you just ignore this DLC, or is it a fear of missing out?

I'll raise to €45.

 

Bloody Nora. The price. Not really into german locos but liked look of this with fault finding aspects until I saw price

 

Sorry this gone a little to far Spikee1975 Youre awnser is shut youre mouth i like it and for others than you didn't buy it! Thats not a fair way of have a discussion.... For me the price is fine but i have more understanding for other users they have other needs.... They can give their opinion as well!

 

Xander. Where have I said "Shut up"? I am making my point as everyone can.

Other needs? This is entertainment software, not stuff your life depends on. Either you can afford it or not. DTG won't lower the price because of this discussion, nor will they raise it, so relax.

 

I will remind you of this post during the first week of release, when a dozen bug threads are being posted.

 

There are players who want every single button to be simulated and be a 1:1 for the real thing. May be small group of people but they still exist.

 

Well to put things in perspective, I've just blown £30 (actually a bit less) on the TSC RhB sale, adding the Disentis and Scuol routes together with the classic green Ge6/6 loco. All new stuff for me. Think they will be entertaining me nicely for a while, vs what the £30 would buy me with this TSW 101 add on.

 

I understand that the cost of production and development greatly influences the cost of the product.

But as a player who only plays TT mode (no start up procedures, etc), I don’t really value this at a premium price for myself, especially if I’m only able to run it on two routes for the foreseeable future. Forget free roam, I don’t use it.

I’ll check out the stream though to see what’s good…

 

You don't write it but it does suggest it slightly. It's not what you literally mean I know but it does come across that way. The message then you don't buy it doesn't help anyone and may well be discussed here and I think that it should be.

 

And then you get the same timetable copied from the original.

 

It's just like everyone cheers "it must be cheaper" without thinking a bit further, and defending a price is wrong per se here.

I don't know what else to say, I've given my reasons why I think the price is fair, and why I'd go with a little more - just as you are doing.

We don't need to agree, we're not a comittee dictating what devs may charge for their DLC. Even the concept of a "community" is an illusion. We choose to buy or not for ourselves.

But discussions will not change a price calculated by people who know what work went into the product and that need to make a living from it. For the rest, there's regular sales.

This loco is what I've been waiting for ever since TSW first arrived in 2016. Let me appreciate it and the work (you won't change it anyway )

 

I'm waiting for UK route £29.99 for 2 trains what the hell is going on over there with DTG I know cost of living is not good at the moment I really don't get any game developers think it's okay to put up prices so much and think there fans will just throw all their money at them well I use to do that but no anymore now I wait for sales or if I really like it or think it's worth £29.99 then I will pay for it I know we all have to make money some how but this is not selling to me at all DTG won't get money from me that easy.

 

You can feel free to donate, rather than suggest everyone should be paying more, if you care so much.

Had you actually read my post you would realise these three points are all answered.

1. "Don't Like It, Don't Buy It" isn't the point here - it's "Do Like It, Don't Like £30 Loco DLC"

2. The PC Master Race was a dig at the rather inconsiderate implication that anyone who isn't interested in a full simulation should just jog on.

3. Huh. Where did that even? What?
I do not have anything against people who want simulation and I don't have anything against simulations. If I did, in either case, I wouldn't be here.

I do have a thing against pricing out and simulating out (i guess?) a large chunk of the fanbase from a train they would like to have. And no, I don't have a "fear of missing out" because I'm not a 10 year old railnerd who lives, breathes and dies by trains.

 

Regardless of everything, one thing that’s true is that this locos price tag has been very controversial…

TSG better be doing gods work for it to fit the bill

 

The issue with this isn't that it's £30. If it was guaranteed that standard DLCS weren't gonna be affected by it, they'd be no issue.

BUT. You know that if this sells really well, DTG will price all Loco DLCs at this price, regardless of the level of simulation/quality

 

Inflation is the most highly excuse of all the companies to higher the prices but if they affected who knows..... Its an easy hidden excuse!

 

in my opinion what will happen is: this dlc will sell little (equal or less than the steam locos) and then there will never be another dlc at this level of quality/detail/complexity
like what happened with steam locos

 

For TSG content I know it will be worth the price.
As it is we know in the past that TSG have put in over the odds time at their on expense to get DLC up to their standards rather than release it in sub par condition.

 

Who said that? TSG? Maybe it needed more work and more work means higher price. Also expected lower sales than "simple" stuff.

 

I'm very interested to see how this sells. I don't have a problem with the price, as long as the quality is there.

My biggest concern is performance- i've bought a couple "expert" locos in TSC over the years and they definitely tank the frame-rate pretty hard.

Obviously TSW is on a much more modern engine, but i'm still a little wary.

 

The question is what ultimately earns the most? A: ask for an extra high price and then hope that enough people buy it to get the minimum or B: ask for less and then serve more people and then possibly even earn more than expected.

You tell me.... I think that's where the price discussion lies here.

 

Why would that be a question for us, the consumer, Xander? It would be for me, if I were a dev.

 

Nobody! Is more of a general point. Not only does that affect the game world but it creates a circle effect. The salaries of staff also have to go up because of the costs that are made by the staff themselves to live so you get a circular story

 

I just want everyone to know, right now I’m drunk, because I look a shot every time someone complained about the 101 prife, ye…it’s a lot

 

Xander1986

Be sure there's people whose job it is to calculate retail prices. I don't think inflation is the point here (even if - what would it change). The loco's simugraph is many times more complex than any other's.

 

That's the story for DTG! So I confirm that you actually have little influence on what those companies ask. And that there are people who decide with your wallet is also only true to a very small extent because that is not nearly enough if there are only a few who think so. Unfortunately you see that that does not work and the masses buy it anyway. That is why making your voice heard is important and perhaps even more so than your wallet

 

Players buy what they want to buy. Just because it costs less doesn't mean more people will buy it.

 

Well you‘ve probably already spent more than the the price of the DLC on Shots then. Hope the hangover isn’t too bad. I think you‘ll still be drinking more tonight.