Upcoming Release Db Br 101 ‘expert’ - Coming Soon!

Very good point! KWG has only 2 trains that runs with the cabcar\loco in reality (all other trains are NJ and they didn't use the cabcar) so thats not biggest job to do so for me also a question.....

 

Oh I don't know, I must have missed that. I haven't seen him commenting for a while I must admit.

 

I would rather buy this one and wait with oncoming TSW5 (?) release than other way round. Finally we are getting a real simulation of driving a loco. And if I understand it right it's kind of "experiment" by TSG and DTG. Those who want and can will pay the release price, others can wait and buy it cheaper, otherwise you can just use the old BR101. I will watch the stream, but probably a day 1 purchase for me.

 

I can't even check his profile, as he limited on who can look at it.

 

There is the catch lets see if it all works first before we all have a party.

I know it is TSG and they are tops. But lately releases haven't been so great.

And there seems to be alot of detail, but that also means more that can go wrong.

Example the faults, what if they aren't like real life and are consrantly happening.
Like the Dynamic Weather.

Such short routes that it on as well.

Not too enjoyable if for the 30 minute run I'm in the fuse room for 15 minutes.

I like to enjoy the scenery as well when driving and I'm sure in real life there are not too many faults in a 30min trip.

So we will see when people get there hands on it and I see it in action maybe I will find more value, but until then.

 

Yes he did. He left after players such as mysslf said to the effect of it isn't unreasonable to expect products to work properly and that it shouldn't take years to fix issues plaguing this game. He acted like that was unreasonable from players who spend alot of money on this game which was rather suprising coming from someone who makes good quality products. It kinda felt like a tantrum from him

That was last year so that thread is buried in the forums

 

Its not so simple if you are talking here.... Maybe you have missed a lot... The point is not the product it self but the price thats way to expensive and it says noting about the product it self. And above they sell it with an option to turn off the expert functions... Why you did not sell a separate product where its not available at all and sell the expert seperate. Its bizar if you love the the cabcar but dont need all the expert things and you need to pay 36€.... It goes wrong how it is supposed to sell. And i have searched in a lot of social media and 90% has the same problems with it

 

People who are annoyed at the price are more likely to be vocal.

Often if a newcomer came to this forum they would come away with impression that TSW is an unplayable mess because the negativity tends to be louder than the positive. Presumably the sales figures tell a different story.

 

So thats true but i have never seen this happen before in a simulation game so many negative reactions for a new DLC. There always a few but this amount is for me new

 

I found this video from a German DTG ambassador and alot of reception was not positive in part because of the price. Make of that what you will.


The major problem with this DLC is that it is limited in what it can run on. Two routes with services that aren't very long presents lack of replay value and thus poor value for money when I could buy games and TSW routes at a similar price point that offer more value for money and replayability. Free roam is rather useless since you can't create your own custom timetable and pick up/drop off passengers. It also seems to be an excuse to not add more content to existing routes. I've seen comparisons to MSFS but in that game, you can pretty much take an advanced plane anywhere you want for hours on end. The replayability is endless.

I was rather skeptical about this when it was first announced but was still intrigued. But now this isn't something I will purchase. The ability to push a few more buttons and switches along with walking inside an engine room (even though some locos in game already have fully modeled engine rooms) for 30 minute services and a few new scenarios presents terrible value for money at $40.

 

I have shared this video also on the forums and if you read the comments more than 90% or more is negative with more than 200 reactions. And they all German i was shocked

 

An absolutely reasonable price for a niche product like this. Casual models of small planes for flight simulators are often at around the same pricepoint, airliners are much more expensive, going into hundreds of dollars.

 

You can do much more with those planes though and the player isn't restricted to thirty minute runs

 

The German community tends to be positive about DLC's especially German ones so when there is that much negative comments on one video alone, you know it's not good

 

Sorry this is nonsense and both have noting to do with each other except they are Simulation games.

 

That was exactly what i mean.... Again im shocked!

 

I’d been waiting for this. And I think it about time we have peek into the world of bathrooms watcher

 

Excuse me? You can spawn it on literally any German or Austrian route, you can do tons of troubleshooting scenarios. I bet there will modded timetables popping up one after another with it used. How's it "two thirty minute runs"? And something like a C182 is much simpler than a most basic electric locomotive.

 

As I’ve said in another thread, the high price isn’t the problem for me here. The 1% of players who want to read a manual to get this thing going and constantly stare at virtual screens and switches (not my definition of fun, but each to their own) will surely be willing to fork out the big money for this.

What does annoy me is that the highly requested IC cab car is being gatekeeped behind this expert DLC and will therefore be withheld from the normal player base (unless they add a simplified version to a future route). These expert DLCs should never contain exclusive rolling stock, that defeats their entire purpose.

 

Did you know what the point is here... I think you have no clue....

Let me explain one of the most requested things is the IC Cabcar and they offer it now for an extreme price a sort of paywall and the most users are not interested in this whole Expert thing. Thats for a very niche group... So to aks 36€ is bizar if you did not interested in the Expert thing.

 

Have to laugh at people saying it's not worth it when it's not even been released. How do you know.
Italian sports cars are overpriced compared to every day cars. I used to think the same until i drove one down to the South of France. It then became clear where the money goes.

 

Not everyone has a PC and can't mod a timetable. Most TSW players are on console. Secondly, players shouldn't have to use the limited functionality of free roam to use a train. You can't create a custom timetable in freeroam and not everyone uses freeroam

 

Well there was a video that I literally put here that showcases the 101. Secondly, there aren't many timetable services that you can use the train on and they are mostly 30 min runs. There are only a few new scenarios. There are other routes in TSW that offer more content and replayability than the 101 at $40 or less. If you think it's worth it, then good for you. But it's not hard to understand why the reception hasn't been positive overall.

Did you also have a laugh when people said that it is worth $40 despite it not being released? I assume you did not

 

You can load timetable mode on foot and spawn into it any locomotive or formation.

 

Better you read before you writing this. You insult people but have missed the whole discussion

 

You can't create a custom timetable service meaning a departure time or arrival time to stations nor can you pick up or drop off passengers. That is one reason why some don't use it.

The services in Dresden Riesa is only 30 minutes long in the timetable

 

Thats the same way of selling if you create for example Call of Duty and they create only the map and say.... Okay thats cool you can walk on this map and go from left on the map to the right... No wapons only you map and team mates

 

And later you'll also have to pay for back and knee surgery after climbing in and out twice and keeping your stuff on your lap, thats where it goes.

I kind of see your point, but I still don't think this is a fight worth taking, just don't buy it, simple as that.
The annual release nonsense is, however, as it is a subscription service in disguise. Me still being on TSW3, I couldn't buy this DLC even if I wanted!

 

Good point here! Finding a balance will be hard. Dynamic, or rather "dynamic" weather was a disaster.

 

Many of you have brought up the price of flight simulators, yes they are even more expensive but you can't compare the two. Let me give you a personal example, I have played a lot with the DCS simulator and I'm sure many of you know it, the price of a DLC is between 65-75 Euros but if you buy a plane there I guarantee you that the first 100 hours will be spent just learning how to operate the plane and its systems.

Let's see what I will get if I buy the DLC for 36 euros. I will get the same locomotive I bought more than 3 years ago, of course the new thing is that I can look for random faults in it,engine room, there will be a new livery that someone did on the old DLC and i can download it for free from Creators Club. Then random faults if I understand correctly will only be available in scenarios and these will also be predefined faults. I can play through the same timetable that I played through a long time ago. Everyone has been asking 101 service on the HMA DLC where this train fits in perfectly, I understand its old DLC and needs updating but it needs to be done and everyone would happily buy the expert 101 DLC for 36euro. I get a new cab car which is a very good thing. What about EBULA? From what I see on the screenshots, the display is as blank as on the old DLC. If we didn't get a new timetable, they could have spent the time to create an ebula system or at least something similar. That is how it is written in the article:

GSM-R simulation which is a good thing but I think a simple simulation would have been enough and the time left over could have been spent on other things. It's still a single player game I won't be able to communicate with anyone.
Everything will be revealed in the live tomorrow.

 

Not really sure what to make of the BR101 expert to be honest. I had a feeling it would be a high price for it to be a study level locomotive. It was also mentioned that the price would reflect it. I know people will argue about the comparisons to how its charged compared to study model MS Flight sim planes. They were damn expensive and I rarely bought them. I think its really for those that want the realism. The hardcore amongst the community. As to people kicking off, thinking that this is the new price for standard loco dlc, get a grip. It isn't. Dovetail have said they currently have no interest in releasing their own study level locos. This is where people need to watch the streams and read the releases. The only thing that will interest me to be honest is the cab car. At the end of the day my view is if you can't afford it then don't buy it, save it for a sale. The other thing to think about is cost versus how much fun or / and Playability are or will you get out of it?
This is why I recommend people to watch the streams to get the info and see what it's about.
Of course it's entirely upto you if you watch them.

Hentis

Hentis

 

That video is just an overview of a product that none of us have actually seen yet and doesn’t say anything that’s not in the article. People are deciding purely on price and not based on any product they‘ve actually seen.

I haven’t seen a single valid argument either for or against buying it yet. The opinion I‘m most interested in is that of the 101 driver on tomorrow’s stream. Just hope they are allowed to comment honestly and haven’t been told what to say.

As for the comments about Maik. He was back on the forum for the 218 release, with a lot of very interesting information. So I hope he sticks around.

 

While this will be a day1 purchais must as somebody working in the real railway sector myself, i have to say i can even live with the paywall, certain understand people who are complaining and just want the cab car.

But the 64 million dollar question is:
While German content in tsw is very rich on routes and rolling stock, wouldnt the best advertisement of such a dlc be, a total rollout to all german routes, where this ic runs? Most with cabcar, some with sandwich, others in double traction..

2 routes isnt gonna impress anybody (me included). Seems to me either there was no time left, or DTG isnt interested in copied timetables on all german routes.

To me a big missed opportunity because this loco runs in bremen oldenburg, kassel würzburg and a lot of other routes. To be fair the 24h timetable of tsw is rather unique and not comparable to the scenarios of tsc advanced content.

Lets hope DTG will include it step by step with the reworks. Or finally release a timetable editor.

 

Just had to pit my thoughts on it... absurd. £30 to flick some fuse switches and a functioning GSMR... It's a no from me. If it's going to cost that much for future locos to press extra things when most of us won't then that's a slippery slope. There should be a separate price at least or a price choice between "expert" and casual.

 

Is this the Dovetail that said they were working on steam physics but ultimately abandoned them? Is this the same Dovetail that said multiplayer would come but it ultimately never did? Is this the same Dovetail that said suspension would come only for it to be implemented in a beta for a few trains?

I can go on but sometimes it's hard to take them seriously due to how many false promises they have said in the past

 

Okay. For me this will be a long time wait. Wait for a big discount. As much as I like the work of TSG, but here I have to say: I'm not interested in an expert mode. I own the 101 already. The livery is also available from Creators Club iirc. So 35€ for just the cab car is way to much for me.

 

That section of the article, while somewhat poorly worded, refers to how faults in TSW have been implemented so far: limited to pre-scripted scenarios where all instructions on how to fix the "fault" are displayed to the player as scenario instructions. A fully implemented fault simulation is one of the major selling points, it's not gonna be restricted to a handful of scenarios.

As shown in the July roadmap article, fault simulation will be determined by a "chaos factor", so the frequency of faults can be adjusted by the player.

 

Oh I read the posts and people all jumping on the value for money. Well how can you tell if its worth the price before you've even played it?
I would also love you to point out where I've insulted people?

 

Hmmm, who doesn't like a good price elasticity discussion?, price it low and sell loads, or price it high and only sell to the niche market. The thing is this hobby is already a niche market, an expert loco is a niche within that niche. The people crying out for this level of detail will willingly spend the extra to get it, the more casual players are used to £13 locos and would cry foul even if it cost only £20, it makes financial sense for TSG to get what money they can from those willing to pay.

A valid comparison, I think, is model trains, Hornby make some incredibly detailed models and charge a hefty price for them, they also still make their less detailed models - what they call Railroad - for the more casual buyers. For example the Railroad version of the Class 67 costs £97, the fully detailed version costs £195, so double the price. Personally as someone who occasionally sets up some boards and runs stuff for an afternoon that price isn't worth it, to someone with a huge dedicated layout in the loft it probably is.

Personally I was orginally expecting a price around £20, although when Maik pointed out that the £15 price for the 218 was a TSG decision rather than a DTG one (DTG wanted to keep it in line with other locos at £13) I did wonder if they would push it up to £25. If you could use the loco independantly of the cab car and therefore automatically substitute for a lot more timetable services on a lot more routes I would see the value in the £30 charge, but being restricted to just a couple of routes that they've put the effort into duplicating the timetable for, I think I'll wait either for a decent sale or for it to be added in timetable mode on a few more routes. The price isn't a deal breaker fo me, the lack of timetable services is.

 

I can understand why people have identified the price as a sticking point compared to normal loco DLC, but this isn't the same.
Nobody is being forced to buy it and if it sales are poor, it will be the last they do.

This is not aimed at you, Sam, but to be honest, I start to question the age of most on here as rational constructive criticism seems to be lacking. It's just knee jerk toys out of the pram on every thread about new content, roadmaps etc. The only one I think has been truly justified is that of the Fife Circle showcase and route that they put out.

 

For me personally the fault sim will be especially interesting. Here a list of faults or "bugs" i had in tsw now and can be solved perfectly:

- br 363 compressor not working. Even i caught me not paying attention to the main res pressure which dropped lower and lower until brakes cant get released anymore. A quick fuse on and off will solve the problem and the compressor starts to work.

- class 47 brake pipe not charging to 5 bar. This can be solved with turning on/off/on the aws vent.

- dual braked loco / shunter not moving after changing the brake system. Here the relay valve wasnt vented.

- brake key not shut mechanicly on push pull trains. Thats a drivers error which could lead to a filling brake pipe from the other side of the train. While entering the cab on the other side, you should make a brake application to 4.2 bar and close the fbv. If the pressure is rising..., not good

- massivley overcharged brakesystem due the br146 bug. Drive the defective 146 into the depot and couple another loco to the dosto formation (before coupling all dosto brakes have to be vented). After that you repump the air system with the new loco.

- lzb faults on the es64u2 between kassel and würzburg. They occured on cab2, where i isolated the lzb and switched to pzb (Vmax 160 kmh)

I guess most of them are coming from minor bugs, but still interesting to solve.

 

Really high price for an add-on. DTG, we add something else to this expensive supplement. I don't mind the price but little use of this DLC. This locomotive should be layered on as many German routes as possible. In free mode, I do not board passengers on the train and this is a locomotive that exclusively carries passengers. I will have to think a lot about buying this supplement.

 

Ich finde das die BR 101 expert ein bisschen zu teuer ist ich hätte sie 10 € billiger angeboten

 

Let's just wait and see how the stream goes tonight, and I hope that DTG will also give a statement about this high pricing. I don't know why this DLC, which is similar to the other one, has to cost the same as a route. I really hoped and still hope that the price could be around €27-30.

 

That is a very unfair comparison on many levels. First comparing planes and trains is a bit off, considering that with a plane you have a complete movement freedom, need to simulate many aerodynamic characteristics is different speeds and altitudes, whereas with a train you pretty much go back and forth and with faults you either go slower or not at all. Substantially more work goes into simulating a plane properly. As for the Railjet comparison - that train has five different types of coaches. Even if your Taurus is finished, you have a lot more work to do. Here the model of 101 is slightly updated and the cab car is new. No new coaches, not even the missing BordBistro. And the IC livery is not saving that situation. So yes, it SHOULD be cheaper.

 

For me, this will be a wait-and-see, A maybe? At $40.00 + Tax oh excuse me $39.99 + Tax that is Steep for what is included and for a Guided Fault recovery. At first, I said NO not going to happen, this is crazy but after reading through the thread here, I'm still leaning toward the wait for the mega sale in a year, just like with TSW4 in the past month or so. But let us see what is in the Stream...

And no I don't see this selling well at all, some will see it on Steam as a shiny new Loco and buy it and will complain that it's bugged/broken will not install, can't get it working, and so on, I saw it with the Mega sales of TSW4 80% and 90% lots jumped on it but expected it all just be simple as push a button and go, not even taking time to read, then refund.

The hardcore and long-time TSW base from the first days of TSW1/2020 onward will jump on board and get along, this is also a Niche group, for the lack of a better term, as is TSW a Niche Hobby. I have spent a Very Good Fair amount Duckets on TSW & TSC, much of which was with sales, humble bundle, and Steam sales. And yes that includes TSW1, 2, 3, 4, and now looming on the horizon what could be TSW5? But for now This single Locomotive and the limited routes but how many scenarios on those routes?

FREE roam is a Joke, I tried it a few times and it's not worth the time or effort, Spawn a train, set a path with go-via locations to the last stop, and no stopping service with passenger pickup / drop off so I don't see this being anything but playing with fault detection, maybe?

Yes, I do want a quality product and as the old saying goes you get what you pay for, a lot of TSW is not worth what I paid for to many bugs, and broken scenarios that DTG is Working so hard to figure out how they broke them, "international Rescue" and a handful more still infected with the RED LIGHT BUG. Then there are scenarios broken since TSW2. So what will this bring, Rad Roaches? By the way, Fallout London released FREE made by a community of modders for Fallout 4. Something to think about.

[ As stated from here DB BR 101 ‘Expert’ - Coming Soon! (dovetailgames.com)
(A series of Scenarios and Tutorials will be able to guide the player through the fault-finding process, which includes having to read and use the interactive fault-finding screens, that correctly display the faulty component. This can range from traction motors failing, to PZB failures or even a cascade of failures if certain systems start to blow out others.) I guess watching a DTG stream is on the agenda for me, to see what a series of Scenarios will be.

"On release, the DB BR 101 ‘Expert’ will have (copied) timetable services on Nahverkehr Dresden and Bahnstrecke Salzburg – Rosenheim route Add-ons. The latter will also have 3 Scenarios available to play." << Really that's it THREE Scenarios! And TWO routes? ]

So I did a little searching and found this from 2021, Hmmm is this where this idea spawned from?
Options For The Intercity Cab Car To Be Added | Dovetail Games Forums

 

Also pertinent for those who value such things, spawning and driving a train in free roam does not grant you any AP for the route or loco at the end of the run.

 

I mean just because nobody has to buy it doesn't mean players can't comment on it. At least there are people that are explaining why they don't want to buy it at full price and not at all so I don't see it as a knee jerk reaction. There are people who see it as poor value for money regardless of the work that went into it given the limited use this locomotive has compared to other content at the same or cheaper price point. Not to mention that it's essentially the same train but with additional features that one could argue should've came with the original DB BR 101.

Now if you think there is value in it, that is fine, but the criticisms from what I've read in this thread have not been un-constructive

Would you be saying that if the comments were all positive?

 

Exactly, While I do my best to get a good core with AP, It is more important to drive as best and safely as I can.
Like staying below the track speed by 5+ mph/kph as it is in Germany, I would rather get it right than get AP points, to me is just a sign I hit all the marks, Not how well I drove.
And someone on Steam just posted this
"Why can't we get an expert mode addon for the already existing DLC we bought?"
This is a good Question.

Oh, I forgot:
A Manual will also be provided to assist players with this process and certain elements will require reading before embarking on services.
WoW A manual was Written just for this, what about all the other trains?

 

Why would you need mouse support because of too many buttons? I can drive a formula 1 car with a pad. Has probably as much buttons as a train does. We just need a clever control scheme for controllers.

But you raise a good point. I have found the controls in TSW so ridiculously difficult to manage that it will hamper with the expert feeling this add on is supposed to give. F1 games do give me the feeling I'm a better driver than the F1 champions. TSW does not give me the feeling I'm a better driver than the world champion in train driving.