Funny how you complain about name calling yet you do it yourself. Looks like we found the hypocrite here. Also, you accuse players of not knowing the value of nothing which is also ridiculous. This train costs $40. For $40 I could buy Southeastern High Speed which comes with 3 trains and services from London, Ebsfleet, Dartford and Faversham. The 101 has a more buttons to press ans can only be played on 2 german routes. On Dresden, the services are only 30 minutes long. SEHS has a variety of services. It wouldn't be difficult for a player to note which has more value for money. Players do know the value of a product and people like you should hardly be suprised that there are many that don't see value in this.
I wasn't calling anyone names, unlike you who has just done so. Having watched the stream it is clear a lot of work and time has gone into this new loco. We also don't know how many people don't see value in this, I have seen plenty say they do and this forum is a small percentage of TSW users.
You called people "conspiracy theorists." For what? Having a opinion on a TSW product doesn't make you a "conspiracy theorist." Talk about hypocrisy. Also accusing people of not knowing the value of something is rather odd. Yes value is ultimately subjective, but there are tsw products that ultimately offer way more to do overall than this DLC at the same or lower price
Probably wondering who that bloke in the black suit was, and whether he needed something for his throat.
I didn't name any individuals. I was referring to several posts suggesting that this release with its more expensive price meant that this would now lead to a general price increase. Plus other theories regarding the reason the stream was delayed etc.
That doesn't make anyone a conspiracy theorist though. It's just speculation. By that logic, everyone who speculates about the next product or price is a conspiracy theorist. You can't complain about name calling when you do it yourself.
Why even start to assume that there are going to price rises when there was absolutely nothing to suggest that this niche model was anything other than a one off or a rare occurance? It doesn't sound like mere speculation. And as I said before, I wasn't calling anyone names, unlike your good self!
You have a point. If you look at a route like the Suffragette Line, I would say that the $30 on that route is fine. But given the mess that the Maintalbahn is, I don't think it's worth $30. You have London Commuter and West Cornwall Local. One route has over 1,000 services and pretty decent scenery. The other doesn't have many services and has poor scenery, and a poorly made class 150. London Commuter would present better value for money.
So when you're travelling at speed, you're not supposed to attempt to fix any fault without leaving your seat. For that you use [V>0] which will display some steps to take whilst in motion (usually one or two). In the manual, just like on the diagnosis screen, I have increased the font size of the steps to be taken whilst in motion for easier readability as well. Only when you're actually stopped, either at the next suitable location, or the next station, can you actually take the deeper steps to fix a fault. You don't just try to go to the engine room whilst driving the train.
Gee, I don't know? Maybe given the history of DTG increasing prices for some of its content. Also DTG's history of flip flopping on the statements they made. It's hardly suprising that some can't take DTG seriously which leads to speculation Also just because you didn't call anyone directly doesn't change the facts. That's like me calling people apologists for constantly defending DTG but just because I didn't directly call someone that isn't name calling which it is. Ironically that is what you complain about hence the hypocrisy of you doing exactly that.
Using worlds like "apologists" is a way of diminishing an opposing view, I would not conflate that with calling people names. So, no hypocrisy here.
You people are seriously intensely debating the cost of a digital train, with personal threats and giant several paragraph posts. How can you even care so much about something so trivial? It's an extremely advanced trainset, it's going to be more expensive because it involved more development time and effort, get over that fact already. You'd want more money for something you spent a whole year on, vs something you spent a few months on. I'd bet 3 digits $$$ that a large percentage of this crowd bickering endlessly over this price will end up buying it and enjoying it in the end anyway, because of the extreme in-depth simulation, it's literally the best of the best in the sim. This is pointless, both this entire thread, the drivel inside of it, and even my reply. Everyone goes on and on and on about how they would pay for quality. This is it. This is the quality you've wanted to pay for, and now you don't want to pay for it all-of-a-sudden. Why???
I won't buy it. Also if your reply is pointless, why reply? Just because there are more important issues doesn't mean people can debate the cost of something or of TSW as a whole. By that logic, this whole forum would be pointless since everything TSW related is trivial and nobody should be here
Yes and I will continue to complain about it. You are correct and I have contributed to the drivel too, which I shouldn't. I will certainly be buying the 101, I think it has clearly taken a lot of work and time and is worth the money.
I am sure people will speak as they see fit. For me, I am going to bed so I will leave you to have the last word you so crave!
As has often been pointed out, the marketplace for flightsims is many times larger than that for trainsims. TSG have to (hope to) recoup the non-trivial costs of development (a year elapsed time, apparently) from a relatively small number of purchases. I'm sure a good deal of work went into choosing a price point.
It's not about the quality per se. The problem with the 101 is the limited use the train has. You can only use it on two german routes that not everyone may even own. The services on Riesa Dresden are 30 minutes. One could argue that these features should've come with the original 101 especially the cab car. If you compare the price to other TSW addons that offer alot more content and replayability, that for some presents poor value for money
[ Because there is all this drama over what? A virtual train? yes, I know the price is steep, but if you actually had the brains to go ahead and look at the preview stream, you will realise that this loco here, is sophisticated, more detailed, and so, is the price it’s at. What were people expecting when DTG said “oh yeah guys, the expert locos are more because they are more detailed” isn’t better detail something that the community want? Idk about you, but I would more than happily pay more for more quality,
The difference with those MSFS addons is that they offer more to do. You are not restricted to 30 minute flights. You can basically take those planes anywhere you like hence why they hold more value. DTG's restrictive nature of TSW means that some content doesn't really offer that much replayability or much to do at some of the pricepoints they charge for content
But that doesn't change the fact that it ultimately has limited use which is the problem when it costs $40. Comparing this to other addons, it doesn't represent great value for money and will most certainly cater to a minority. If you actually have brains, it's not hard to see why there are those that think it is poor value for money. It's a public forum. Every post here is pointless as is some things in life. It doesn't mean that people shouldn't be here to voice their opinion or do whatever they want in their free time
Tell me about it! I’m 7 beers down, and I’ve got more in the fridge. I’m turning more and more insane by the hour!
Might be good to remind everyone that alcohol shall be consumed within reason, don't drink yourself to smitherens if you can avoid it.
I watched the stream and determined that given what can be done with the train considering that is restricted to two german routes (one of which I don't own) it represents poor value for money to only do 30 minute services when I can play or buy other content that offers better value and replayability for money. That is called using your brain which I guess you didn't do since you don't seem to understand why there are those that don't think it's good value for money May I also ask, what is the point of you posting that you are drunk?
Must admit I am on tea, as I'm working tomorrow, but still getting through it and the bourbon creams whilst reading the thread!
Because this pricing topic really seems to get to the heart of the community on the forums, I'd just like to say everyone's opinion are lovely and valid, and I will be ignoring all of them because I really don't care what anybody thinks, and will be buying it because I want it, it's beautifully simple really......
Right so I get taught a preaching lesson about a post that does not explicitly show "Rules" rather simply pointing out purposes and why people seem to argue and you can never please anyone. Heck I fall into this too. Also notice how I did not mention anything about the loco or it's price soo your postulates there are not valid about me. I did follow those statements that are true and valid. You think like I will talk about this. Also I do respect other peoples opinions but the very drool that is simply put tired and tried attempt of people to this specific community I have noticed is to simply say if you don't like it don't buy it. While yes this works this breaks down very badly as such... For example Complex Decision-Making: Consumer choices are multifaceted. Factors like brand loyalty, marketing, and peer influence play a role. Simply not buying a product doesn’t address these complexities that people seem to bring up when saying such a generalized and overused phrase. As well as the dismissive approach as well. Never did I say I don't respect peoples opinions I have never said that on the forums ever because I do respect peoples thoughts. But your whole claim falls apart except the parts where you mention middle grounded approaches where I was not even talking about that rather the phrase in which people overly use. and was not necessary. To me it seems like filler that was not needed. I put those "Rules" as you put it there because that is why this whole thing about the phrase I was talking about is not a good idea and is overused by this community when talking about TSW content.
Didn't use red for attention, used it because it is really cool Yes a brilliant post that includes a lot of things that were not even geared towards what I said and are just extra. and I did not call you a "fanboy" notice did not mention you nor but I will say your sarcasm is simply hilarious mate...
As pricing is concerned here well it describes itself. Why pay for the same locomotive just with more features that should have been included with the DB BR 101 original release (not excusing the fact it released years ago). Not only that it is only compatible with timetable with 2 routes (correct me if I am wrong) the only real selling point is PZB and LZB and maybe the cab car and the engine room that should have been included with the original BR 101. So let's see how many things have come to TSW: Routes, Locomotives, Gameplay packs (not a fan of pointless kind of), reskins (yep for sure), journey routes (yeah happy that got scrapped atleast I hope) and now "expert locomotives" as it currently stands a reskin of one we have just with more "features" that should have been included in the original DLC. I am not sure if more expert locomotives are coming but if they are new releases of new never before seen content to TSW I will not mind but USD $39.99 yeah that's a bit steep way more for my liking. I will certainly not be buying this as I see the value for money is non existent especially for a few new features that should have been included in the base addon. The fact that this concept of "expert loco" is just hilarious to me to see how far down this as gone to the point we are seeing reskins but with more features of locomotives and the added cab car does not justify this to me either. Like some have said I will only buy things that I actually like and are good value for money. I think I will stick with the car industry because trains clearly is ruined to me. At least until another company/game can step up like SimRail or Run 8. But that is off topic. Main point is this is not worth it to me and I will certainly not buy it nor recommend anyone I know to buy this overly priced locomotive even given it's extra features. It's really funny to see how far this game has come especially to the prices and DLC that is so half baked and filled with more bugs than you can count.
I'm sorry, but all this is telling me is that you're writing wall of text after wall of text about something you seemingly haven't even bothered familiarizing yourself with in the slightest. If stuff like fault simulation, a modelled engine room with fully functional breaker board, an on-board computer with all of its submenus accurately implemented and PZB/LZB data input panels, just to name a few, are something that "should have been included in the original DLC", then we must've been playing different games, because none of that has ever even come close to being featured in TSW before. Should the cab car have been part of the original BR 101 DLC? Absolutely. That discussion is as old as the DLC itself. But you can't blame TSG for not picking up DTG's slack for free. It's a-okay to be unhappy about the price tag, I can't say that I'm thrilled about it either, and it's just as okay to not be interested in the features and simulation depth provided, or to think that it's not good value for the price. But trying to desperately short-sell this DLC by saying that this never-before-seen functionality should've been featured from the start? That's extremely unfair towards the devs who've probably spent quite a significant amount of free time to develop this passion project and honestly just makes you come across as willfully ignorant for the sake of your argument.
Very insightful! I would imagine pretty much everyone only purchases things they like and feel are good value for money. Which will of coure differ for everyone! I wouldn't purchase something I didn't like and wasn't going to get value fo money from.
Now just imagine a TSW route being sold at that price, the looks on people's faces would be priceless.
No cab car, no coaches, no gameplay, no fault simulation, only one livery, can’t sit inside it. Max route length 3 kilometres if you are lucky and you have to build that yourself. Bargain.
As a further thought on pricing and accepting there would be issues for the console market… How much of the Expert 101 price tag could have been taken off if TSG had been allowed to develop and sell direct, rather than being forced to go through DTG? In the case of Steam, we know they take a cut possibly up to 30% and I’m not sure what DTG’s slice of the pie is, probably similar. So after taxes as well, TSG probably see less than £10 of that £30, whereas if they sold direct they could have brought the price down by 30% and get a better return on the sales. Maybe time DTG loosened the restrictions on how content for TSW is sold or the third parties start lobbying for this.
Railway modelling is a hobby which has completely priced itself out of the market for normal working people. Besides, with a model you are getting a real 3D object that you can touch, feel the weight, made out of quality metals and synthetics. A train sim remains forever a collection of 1’s and 0’s drawing a bunch of pixels on a monitor.
I didnt think i would say that regarding the whole 101 discussion, but i agree with you on this one. I Used to have a model railway, but got offput by all the costs, not only the stock, but tracks, scenery etc add very quickly Up to hundrets and thousands of Euros. When i got into TSW it became the thing to live my train hobby in and i sold some models, TSW is cheaper in any way for what you get to do. Also you get more insight in real operations, with model railways, something like how safety systems work is completely irrelevant. When thinking in model railway terms, 36€ would maybe get me one (1) IC coach, a real object at least, but individually i think one will be able to get more fun out the 36€ TSW 101 than one 36€ H0 IC car.
Glad we agree on something Tom! I still occasionally buy Railway Modeller magazine and it is horrifying to see the prices listed in the advertisements. A Mark One or Mark Two coach which Lima churned out in the early 80’s and you could buy for less than £5 each, now cost over £30. What really annoys me is that a few years back I sold off all my OO and HO model railway stuff that had been stored in a box in the loft, for dirt cheap price on EBay. The wisdom of hindsight! So yes, our digital hobby, even the occasional more expensive item, is better value. Though I do need to take into account the £500 or £600 I need to spend soon to upgrade the PC for Win 11. But then the PC is also an essential household tool and a decent upgrade will last several years.
Now there's an interesting question! Not that we're likely to ever get an answer to it. Unfortunately I highly doubt DTG is gonna make the same "mistake" twice, that "mistake" being letting other developers produce (potentially superior) content for their game without getting a cut from that work.
Just to put some likely numbers behind that view. Product Price £30 Value Added Tax £5 - using the UK rate of 20% Steam/Sony/Microsoft £7.50 - 30% of the price after deducting tax DTG £5.25 - assuming they take 30% of what's left after Tax/Steam TSG £12.25 We don't of course know how DTG handles it's finances with third parties, but 30% is such a standard number in the digital economy it's the easiest way to estimate the figures. DTG of course also have costs involved, they are the ones publishing the content on all platforms, getting patches certified by the console platform holders isn't free, and someone needs to pay the likes of Jan, Alex and Harry to sit and read everything we write about the content - hi guys!
I try that, but it always seems like the routes I like take like 1 year before they get a decent discount, So I just end up buying it and regretting that when it goes to 60% off.
