London to Milton Keynes Central will be coming to TSW5 as announced on Dovetail Direct. From the screenshots on the Microsoft Store, I can see that the 1972 LU stock will run alongside the route as well as the Class 710 if you own these routes. If not, these routes are included in the special edition. I can also see that for freight on this route, a DB liveried Class 66 is included in this DLC.
I went on this line in real life a week or two ago, it's fairly interesting, it's good to see the Watford DC line included as well.
It wasn’t explicitly confirmed, but there were clues to suggest that the Watford DC and Bakerloo Lines will of course be playable. Is it the first route made where all possible passenger stock is available from the get go?
I think it’s an awful shame that the routes are so short! Why not do it to Manchester Piccadilly or Crewe? Why are DTG so reluctant to give longer routes? Is it so they can produce more shorter routes for more revenue. In the 390 it’s not even an hour to the end of the route?
The DC line stations were mentioned in the route map in the FAQ, and the route includes the 1972 stock, but I think you need to own the GOBLIN route to drive the Overground services.
Watford High St is in the stations list and route map, so I'm think that it is included. You just need Goblin for the 710.
A little disappointing we didn't get the route through to Rugby or at least Northampton, but as discussed extensively after the beta leak Euston to Harrow is a very complex area in its own right and going further than MKC might be pushing it. A fully driveable DC Line will redeem that to some extent.
London-Milton Keynes, ooh a half hour run in a pendo, seems daft to me not to at least go to rugby, the dc lines and the 350 runs will be a bit better but can see the pendo runs being more boring then the ecml , never thought that would be achievable but here we are. Also why is the core train of the route bundled with the deluxe edition, just screams cash grab to me, sorry. Seems a missed opportunity for some decent runs in the train people have to pay more for by only going to Milton Keynes. Lets see what timetable mode looks like, good to see things being made but not overly excited by this tbh. I'm sure it will be a good route but these short routes just don't float my boat.
If they do a realistic timetable, then half the Avanti trains will be cancelled anyway. We deffo need a scenario where a signal failure has shut down Euston and we have to get 1000 passengers on a 350 to Watford or something.
London - Manchester? Ok the route is unfortunately short but you’re suggesting over 140 miles of track in one go, London - Birmingham would’ve been the more reasonable choice
I don’t think London-Manchester OR Crewe is a big ask if you’re offering a high speed train on the route.
Route Hopping feature means another section of WCML from MKC could be more likely to happen in the future though.
Just trains doing Preston to Carlisle thats about 90 miles long the WCML could of gone further than Milton Keynes imo
Preston to Carlisle goes through a lot of countryside, whereas the first section of WCML South is through densely-populated London and surrounding areas. There's a huge difference in required modelling and scenery development. You can't just look at the mileage alone.
So since it seems we're getting the full Watford DC line playable services will presumably be: 3tph Avanti West Coast Euston-MKC 2tph LNWR Euston-Tring 5tph LNWR Euston-MKC (with four different stopping patterns) 4tph Overground Euston-Watford Junction 4tph Underground Queens Park-Stonebridge Park 4tph Underground Queens Park-Harrow & Wealdstone whatever the Class 66 will have So a good variety of services.
JustTrains can afford much more time for route building. One route per year is probably ok for them financially, as they are part of JustFlight.
The pendo will be driveable on Preston - Carlisle with free roam. A proper bendy route that the pendo was made for
I'm questioning now if what service will the Class 377 conduct? It currently only runs to Watford Junction before branching off at Willesden Junction with one or two journeys to Hamel Hampstead? Happy to be corrected here. Though looking at the pre 2019 timetable, it used to extend all the way to Milton Keynes so I'm curious if they will use the 2019 timetable to make the 377's drivable?
half and half for me. Goods: About time we finally get a class 350 we its sound already have been reused on 2 trains. LETS GO 377/2!! We finally can fix that /4 running on the BML from East Croydon to Clapham Junction. Yay class 390 (paid extra) Bads: I am getting TSC instead of TSW5. utterly pathetic 50 miles compared to Peterbrough to Doncaser's 75 miles on the ECML. Again fine for Class 350 and Class 377/2. But here we have another London Paddington to Reading situation. Class 390 getting to milton keynes feels utter NOTHING when we dont even have the full section to head to birmingham. Just dont get the bloody route you might as well go ahead and go with cheaper and much more worth it TSC where it actually has a full route. If anybody defends this or say its justifiable that it ends at milton then nah go touch grass. This is not justifiable at all. Also bruh give us freightliner class 66 and class 90. COME ON DTG.
Well it takes the same amount of time to create a mile of route regardless of how fast the train traverses it. More in the case of built up areas. Certainly a bit disappointing the route is only going to MKC but with a full DC Line plenty to do. Rugby would have been nice though.
This is an interesting approach and I kind of like what they are doing. For someone that doesn't already own the Bakerloo line, it might be kind of a big ask to expect them to pay a hefty price for a TSW2 era route just to see AI trains on WCML. Including them with the route means everyone gets to see them. Even for people that own Bakerloo, but don't feel like playing it anymore due to its age, don't have to keep it installed and taking up space just for the 72 stock on WCML. Goblin is a much newer DLC that is fully up to TSW4 standards, and it sounds like those services will be playable, so DTG not including it means DTG can still expect people to buy it to see/drive the 710 which is fair.
Great to see the WCML coming ,would have preferred it to have gone to new street but maybe a little to much to ask,why the 390 was not standard in this route is beyond me,it's the main train on the route,without buying the deluxe edition it would very unrealistic ,it has the largest share of the traffic on the fast lines,would be a 28 days later service Without it!!
I must say it is disappointing to only get the line out to MK as it is going to be a rather fast run with the AWC services that stop there, being scarily reminiscent of one of GWE's major drawbacks. Essentially this is not a line for the high speed services, but instead this leaves us with another modern, electric commuter route with relatively uninteresting rolling stock. I think the saving grace of this route will be the sheer busyness, which is the only thing that would ever draw me back to BML and will likely keep me ticking over on the half hour AWC services on this route. Realistically this route will only be the starter course getting me ready for the main meal of JT's WCML and the pudding of an ECML diesel pack and the ST 104.
My thoughts are disappointing that it's only to Milton Keynes, rugby would have made more sense even juat having the Weedon branch only would have Been sort of ok. Also they need to get another freight license can't keep have db we want realism so get freightliner for this route and gbrf (ecml I know ) would be more fun. Pendo would have been awesome but 30 min journeys and most 350 don't do all stops so that 30-40 mins just seem a waste of a line.
You’re giving absolutely no consideration to how much work has to go into the scenery for suburban lines, compared to something like the ECML we got which is mostly just open countryside. It is *vastly* more work to build everything around Central London - a huge amount more buildings, roads, infrastructure, many more rail lines (both running on the WCML and surrounding/intersecting lines), junctions, plus 28 stations vs 5 on ECML. Every extra station means much, much more work building out timetables, as does seeing AI services on nearby lines. It’s disheartening to see people so oblivious to the work required.
Things are much more complex in tsw. When they've got a limited budget and time to work with, they have to make a decision. They can't not release it at all. Freightliner is one of those companies who aren't interested in tsw so dtg can't create those rolling stock
Just a question, will this 377/2 be updated to modern TSW standards (new lighting, suspension, etc) or will it just be the same 377 as before with a pantograph slapped onto it with the number being changed at the front?
Love reading about all the "missed opportunities ". Most missed the opportunity to appreciate how ridiculously long in dev time "just going to xxx is," Give your heads a wobble. Behave and be thankful. You got more than nothing....
London Euston to Crewe is 157 miles. You've got the densely populated London suburbia at one end, with multiple stations and scenery to model, as well as Crewe station at the other end, with its complex junctions and massive yards. No developer is going to make such route all in one as it is a mammoth task. Some people need a reality check when they say 'Should have just extended the route to x, y and z' It would have been nice for the route to go to Northampton and/or Rugby but I assume development time and costs wasn't on their side.
I agree the likes of Manchester and crewe etc was never going to happen , even birmingham was a stretch but I do think rugby would have been an ideal finishing point , anyway it is what it is , let's see what they come up with, maybe something for the future.
From the xbox store screenshots, we can find freight services using Class 66 in DB livery and BKL services. Well, that means London Euston wouldn't be another big but empty terminal since 390 (deluxe and special edition only), 350, 710 are included, and we can expect high level of service diversity. Screenshots from Xbox store, looks promise
Go dip your head in cold water and you're telling me that only running less than 10 minutes on a high speed train where the pendolino only gets to tilt for a couple times is justifiable. We are all disappointed here because as other said that the developers completely missed the opportunity and dislikes what we are offered. Wake up you fanboys. Having the "you have no idea how much work is put a route" doesnt work because at least its shown in terms of route length its honestly pathetic again with the Paddington to Reading situation. And you're telling when we are driving what is a long distance train we are expected to only drive for less than 10 minutes and you're calling it "shut up and take it, its all fine." Absolutely agreeing on this. If we only could've gotten something like Euston to Crewe so we can add the Class 221 to this... and no nobody dare say 805/807, we dont need another IET.
Are you trolling us? Or do you genuinely believe what you're suggesting is feasible? And where on earth have you got this "10 minutes" figure from? A run from Euston to Milton Keynes in a 390 will take at least 30 minutes, slightly longer than a HST from Paddington to Reading and probably at a higher average speed. And 50 miles actually is a decent length considering the volume of traffic and the sheer number of stations included. It's incomparable to something like JT's Preston to Carlisle, because that literally only has a handful of stations. I'm disappointed it's not longer too, but I don't think anyone here (apart from you apparently), are particularly surprised at it's length, and I don't think anyone else is especially angry about it either. I remember only a month ago people thinking even THIS was too big an ask for DTG, thinking it would only go as far as Watford, or avoid London altogether.
I have (and maybe others) personally rode between London Euston and Milton Keynes on a Pendolino before, even after I got off at milton keynes I still wanted to ride more because back then it was my first time riding the Class 390 and i was honestly in love with it a 30 minute ride just feels not enough. And while yes i may have been exaggerating when i said that it only takes about 10 minutes to get from Euston to Milton Keynes which realistically is not. But 30 minutes is still 30 minutes, its not 1 hours or 2 hours long. Like at least ECML we have on TSW is more reasonable than what we have here on WCML. Sure we might not be able to drive up to York but at least its still a decent length to get between Peterbrough and Doncaster. Like at least give us about an hour length of driving from the Class 390 and the tilting sections just arent that many between Euston and Milton which if you go way north, you can see more of the capabilities of the Class 390. As somebody have mentioned before, at least to rugby I wouldn't mind because we get to skip milton sometimes. better yet just extend the whole thing to Birmingham.
Hoping that the Class 390 will layer onto Birmingham Cross-City Line and Glossop Line: Manchester - Hadfield & Glossop to add some AI traffic to Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly.
Meh. The most interesting part of this route will be the 350/710 and the busy commuter side. Thats why the 390 is a separate DLC and optional. Last year they gave us a true high speed section with the 801 able to stretch its legs for a long distance and people moaned that they'd rather have the more interesting London end with the class 700 playing a bigger role and that the long high speed section is boring. Now they give us the London side of this one with multiple different commuter trains to play with and people moan that they don't get a longer high speed run with the 390. Can't please everyone every time. At least now that its in the game that opens the door to have it on other sections of the WCML down the road if it sells well enough. And as per usual with every DLC, if you don't like it you don't need to buy it. I think this section of WCML will be awesome with the 350, the entire Watford Junction overground line, all the Bakerloo trains, and even a new variant of the 377. Add in freight and there will be a ton going on, finally a UK route that will feel as alive as a German route. The 390 is icing on the cake but not the entire focus of the route. Saying "we are all disappointed" is nonsense. Lots of us aren't disappointed with this. The only people who are disappointed are the usual suspects who are always bent out of shape when they don't get the EXACT route they want going halfway across the entire country with the EXACT rolling stock they want during the EXACT era they want it to be.
why wouldn't it? It is being made for tsw5 and as a big summer release, so it would not make sense not to.
In the current Avanti timetable it takes 32 minutes non-stop and 36 minutes with a stop at Watford Junction.
