From my perspective, I'm a little puzzled on why people are so down on DTG not mentioning TSC much these days. What do you really want from them? Upgrades to the sim are always nice but am I only the one who is actually rather happy with TSC and thinks its wouldn't be the end of the world if it was never updated again? My only real want is for more high quality rolling stock to fill the gaps but it's been long established that DTG aren't the people to make that happen. The third parties can only really be trusted to provide that and they're still doing what they do from what I can see. The only thing I miss from DTG are their routes which were on average, decent enough. That said, we have so many routes though, what's out there is enough to keep me occupied. Anything else is a bonus. Do people just want hyped up trailers and announcements to make them feel they're part of something exciting? Regardless of whether the end product is actually truly enjoyable with long term playability?
It´s never for anyone personaly... but I think from a commercial standpoint it´is running its course now... and as a freeware devolper I would not be confidet to start a whole new route project, that will take me 2 or 3 years, because I don´t know if there is anyone left downloading it at that point in the future. If I was retired or unemployed, I would do more stuff for TSC just out of boredem. But otherwise I´m not too sure anymore. But that is also just duo to my personal situation. I was actually thinking about building Frankfurt-Fulda with a couple of people, because it was very much requested route in the community. But now it´s coming to TSW 5. I think no one is taking time out anymore to do routes, that are present in TSW.... nor freeware or payware. Too many people will just use the TSW version.
If you keep playing the existing content, you will be fine. That´s not the problem.... but people will stop creating stuff for it, if there are only small crowds of users left. Commercialy it obviously no sense (see DTG, TSG moving from TSC to TSW etc.) and even creatings freeware becomes tiresome, if there is only 20 peole left patting you on the back for building something in the editor for like 5 years every day. There will always be people with too much time on their hands, who will create stuff for TSC just out of enjoyment. That´s all thats left in the end. We will see.
I got into TSC because i had other issues at the time. Being creative in TSC was what helped me through.
Lets face it. TSC is for the older generation, those who like to take their time and enjoy nostalgia. DTG is pushing the boundaries for new clientele who desire instant gratification by using Route Hopping (to provide longer length routes), Virtual Reality and even turning the engine into a party game with the Tycoon version. I do not see DTG investing much more into TSC. It will be supported and made available for 3rd Parties to cash in on. It is what it is. I personally am going to keep using what I have. I have a life time of content available and may as well enjoy my nostalgia. We are a dying breed! Respectfully
considering all the drama and mess now in TSW land im almost done with it ..TSC has better and varied stuff TSW will never have
I would reconsider and keep making routes for TSC ..im new to TSC ..TSW is becoming a mess esp US and NA freight content they dont do any new US NA freight hasnt been a freight route for US Canada since Cajon Pass in TSW 3 we up to TSW 5 now and all they give US is passenger routes in a country where freight is dominant plus the player base for TSW is younger and they just want sleek fast modern high tech passenger trains and one handled EMU DMU transit commuter trains they hate freight trains and old classic trains ,there was some UK steam engines treid but DTG bascally abandoned steam in TSW4 after they touted the flying scottsman they hate steam too..i think there still plenty of opportunity for TSC it s better here im fed up with TSW as a whole now
I think we’re far from the end of TSC. The end for DTG maybe, but the core game is reasonably stable now and there are still plenty of 3rd parties creating stuff and still a decent amount of freeware. If you limit yourself to purchases published by DTG on Steam, then you might see things dry up, but there will still be new stuff coming. From my point of view (UK only stuff in TSC) the last year has see some fantastic releases. I’m not worried yet. Or course I would like to see DTG develop things further, but it’s well over a decade old now and they’ve moved on to TSW.
I mean i still care about TS1 - granted not while at work - but i still have interest in it (granted harder with less free time though, and now even more so - with a baby too! )
Nevertheless I think an official statement is overdue. People are waiting for the last beta fixes (new headlight distance bug, multiple InputMappers) to go into the stable version, to finalise the work if that's what will happen. Just tell us, we can't bite you.
I mean i'd love to say but I'm restricted because of NDAs etc (nothing that hasn't been announced, i mean i can't even mention what the last route would have been, I mean people would have been happy if it were done (ok except those select few :P), but sadly not up to me. (i mean i probably shouldn't have mentioned the "cancelled route" but still i haven't revealed anything from it )
Why is TSC a Cash Cow? Why is the TSW5 WCML-South 49 mile route better than the TSC WCML-South 112 mile route? And Why, Why, Why do you continue to spout on that ATS in the only place to go for TSC add-ons?
I mean it's probably one of the bigger sites now with UKTS gone, but there are other websites too, I mean I could point people here to host stuff for free - Train Simulator Classic Mods, Maps, Patches and News - GameFront (i'm biased because i used to help run (volunteer more than anything) it when it was Filefront in the past - mostly pre DTG there - like 2002-2014)
Some very touchy people on this forum. The bubble was burst yesterday. DTG will milk TSC for what it can, however, new DTG routes are not to be expected. 3rd party products will still be made available both on Steam or through other means. DTG intends to cater for a younger and newer set of clientele. Virtual Reality, Tycoon, TSW connectivity. Sure there are other suppliers of DLC. People like to beat up on me for even mentioning ATS. They are producing UK content (sure other lower volumes of content is being produced by others). I see all other sources are drying up and moving into the TSW market. Lick your wounds and beat me up some more.
Short answer NO. Long answer NO. MSTS was officially discontinued 20+ years ago but is still active due to third party developers and the community using the editor function and posting their routes and works, similarly TSC. This will continue whereas TSW is dependent on official developers because there is no editor function. If DTG wash their hands of a money spinner they would be rather unbusinesslike. They will earn a few bob more for a few years yet and then the community and third parties will still be there. Worry ye not.
I ve gotten very unhappy with TSW and TSW5 does not impress esp with the US content all passenger no freight ..they treat US costomers the worst give us lacklustre routes no freight ..no steam not many classic old trains or routes ..there are others getting very tired of the TSW mess , TSC may get some converts to TSC ive even posted a few thing s on TSW forums that TSC has that TSW don t, like US steam Big Boys Challengers plenty of older and newer US locos and routes ive even found some UK routes in TSC i like better than the TSW uk there even a better variety of UK stuff in TSC than TSW The Money i would have spent on TSW5 will be spent here on TSC there still a lot of NA US stuff i plan on getting as well as more UK and eventually try some EU etc stuff as money permits
I still don´t get why DTG never just confirmed that they won´t be doing routes again for tsc... why does that need to be kept a secret? Maybe people will step up or even start a new third party when they know nothing is coming from DTG. There is already a holem that all third parties left, when they moved to TSW. Maybe making some payware stuff for TSC is a good market niche and new people can jump in and the fill the void.
I dont believe in the end of tsc anytime soon. There is still content being released both payware and freeware by old and new developers. There are active communities on discord and other places. I personally cant imagine going over to TSW. Tsc has a lot more to offer and will keep me ocupied in years to come. I plan to keep investing in TSC as i have done since 2013.
It is not the fact ATS are producing UK Content but that you seem to find it necessary to mention it all the time.
I find the suggestion that they are producing more content than any other developers to be a rather debatable point as well.
I find it hard to believe that they are producing more routes than RSSLO. I think they’ve done 3 to 4 a year for the last three years.
Fair enough. I am probably more focused on UK content. I have to admit that Steam locos, Austria and Japan/China are not on my radar. Respectfully
It is also not necessary for you to keep having a go at anyone that supports ATS All The Time. I personally use ATS on a daily basis and welcome their contribution to TSC wholeheartedly. I await the repercussions of posting this audacious statement with baited breath. Anyone got a Nuclear Bomb Shelter I could borrow?
That would be the contribution of those using ATS as a hosting service rather than the ATS produced stuff then?
Sarcasm noted. No, I daily check for new scenarios, reskins etc. but am also a fully subscribed owner of all ATS content, Chat Moss, KX - Cambridge - Leeds - York, WCMLS - Full, OHLE etc etc. I find them to be a quality product and have no issue with the installer. Your assumption of what I use ATS for is completely uninformed, but no less than I expect from the likes of the anti ATS Brigade. When you all gang together and find a way of closing down ATS, as it feels like that is your wish, I will just say:- A massive thank you to you all for help closing one of the largest supporters of TSC there is. They may not be the most professional and sleek DLC providers, but at least they are trying their best to keep TSC alive which is more than DTG are doing. Like I said, I am in the market for a Nuclear Bunker.
That’s one of the cool things about TSC. The sheer amount of different stuff. They do German routes as well. Though not as many as Austrian ones.
See the question mark in my post?....there's no assumption involved, just a request for clarification. now, THAT'S an assumption.
I think they're quite different games. TSW is more plug and play and better for consoles. TSC has a lot of mods available and is for PC exclusively. Two very different experiences. You just won't get the console people onto TSC (they can't for one...) and while many people on PC do play both, there's some things you can't get on TSW, so in short... I think there's a market for TSC, albeit a smaller niche. The passionate railfans who produce content will continue to do so as long as they get "attaboys" and the few niche companies making content will keep doing so as long as they are making money at that as well. it really doesn't have to be an "either/or" DTG can still be involved in the core engine and bugs along with integration and supporting the platform without doing the content themselves. As a company for profit it just makes sense as an investment. The return on investment is higher on making routes for TSW and just doing "support" for TSC. That's where they maximize effort for profit on both. Consoles are the money makers for routes (TSW) and there's no reason to "drop" a "cash cow" in TSC. It's MUCH LESS labor to just keep the core game updated than it is to do whole routes, so they can have minimal staff do that and then reap benefits of 3rd party sales commissions. That can continue as long as they are still making enough on the sales to justify keeping several people on staff paid. How long THAT continues depends directly on you the customers continuing to generate revenue through third party DLC purchases.
I don't have anything against ATS as such, despite what you might think. And they do provide a service to simmers. I just object to the fact I can only install the content I purchase by using their Installer - a piece of software that is there because the process has been dumbed down as some of the people who get DLC from don't know how to install software. They just released the Northampton Route extension and not being a Subscriber I would have paid the full price for the download but I have to use the Stupid installer - why can ATS not give people a Choice?
Presumably they've looked at different customers needs, factored in what's in their commercial interests and decided on the installer.
It is the same way DTG/Steam will not provide the .exe file. They ONLY provide DLC via the Steam installer. Not all ATS forces the installer. I believe there are 7 products which they sell when you click on the link it provides an installer .exe file. The rest of the products can be downloaded as a zip file with embedded .exe. I believe these 7 items are single sourced items from ATS. Maybe they are doing this to protect from product piracy?
I have seen Alan post a couple of times on this forum - would be useful if we could get a response about the installer issues/theories posted on here, and their recommadation on how best to purchase and install their products? (apologies if there is already an answer in another thread). I will be staying away from TSW5 as long as I can until TSC finally ceases (if it ever does), but in the meantime I want to support companies like ATS and until recently had a subscription, but the theories about new installer is making me hesitiant about renewing or purchasing the Northampton route and their upcoming routes (which look really good!).
It may be the way DTG./Steam provide products but all the other DLC sellers provide either an .exe or a .rwp to install. I don't think it is protecting their 7 products from piracy otherwise the likes of AP, Just Trains and various european sellers would do the same.
I think TSC has gone about as far as it can go sadly. Railworks Enhancer brought it back to life, but there's only so much even a transplant can do, now the patient is simply too old. What puzzles me is how this can do US freight but TSW can't?
I'm curious as to what makes you think TSC is no longer viable? Age in itself is never a reason. What would you like to see in TSC that more modern games tend to do?
"Can't" or "Don't"? Those are two different meanings. To be fair it EXISTS on TSW, it's just not great. Much of that isn't about what CAN be done... it's just about what IS being done, which is different. The good TSC freight (in my opinion) isn't by DTG. That's your answer.
Don't get me wrong I still play and enjoy it with RWE 2. It's the only place for a lot of retro stuff. But without RW it's graphics are pretty poor you have to admit. The cabs too are a pain in the butt as by the time you get your mouse cursor to actually work you are past the red! Also the lack of a timetable gives it reduced replayability.
DTG have laid their cards down. My understanding is that they intend to have 50 mile segments of route and simply port from route to route using the ‘Rail Hopping’ technique. This makes a nice chunk sized portfolio of routes which can be connected and provide good income for new routes as and when. No point in DTG developing anything in TSC. How they will leverage this for US Freight will be interesting.
I like the US freight on TSW but the scenarios could be better designed. The best are on TSC for sure, but just a few scenarios limits replayability and a lot of routes don't get workshop coverage sadly. I expect many TSC devs to migrate over to TSW in time.
US freight in both TSC and TSW needs something like the Run 8 approach. Get away from the prescripted scenarios or timetables and allow players to operate in a persistent world, making up locals, serving industry, bring the cars back in and forward manifest trains. In the meantime Intermodal and other long distance movements running across the map.
In the meantime Intermodal and other long distance running across the map(s) using ‘Rail Hopping’. Will be interested to try the TSW 5 rail hop with freight between San Bernardino and Cajon Pass.
Thing is though, there is no freight that runs the entire length of SBL. BNSF only goes to Kaiser yard plus locals that serve the industry. So you cant run freight all the way down the line at all.
