So, looking at UK routes in TSW including those already announced I make it. Scottish Routes: 3 London Midland: 11 Southern: 5 Western: 3 North Eastern: 2 Wales: 1 Eastern: 0 Why such a bias towards the North West in particular. Some areas are becoming networks of routes with enough relevant rolling stock to make busy stations look busy. Perhaps TSW6 will see 3 Eastern Region routes announced or will it just be a continuation of LMR & Scottish content?
LAMP plays a big part. Especially the licensing bit of it, that can be particularly tricky. Apparently Greater Anglia don't want to give a license so that rules out quite a few routes in the east (in the present day, at least)
You forgot London only routes, the city has a population of well over 9 million people, greater than Scotland combined.
To be fair, it’s pretty hard to get anywhere between London & the rest of the country, without going through the Midlands. In any case, if every route releasing was the same couple of TOCs, I’d agree it would be more of an issue, but frankly most releases have been separate ToC’s, in separate cities. The only bias we have is the ultra modern AC issue from DTG.
I think you partially answered your own question here… people want busier routes with more realistic traffic… having a strategy that focuses on a few areas instead of random routes all over the place lets them build a fleet of rolling stock so that they can have realistic traffic in those areas. It’s not as simple as German routes with a national carrier. IE look at Glasgow day 1 (just 314s) compared to how it will be on TSW5 launch: 314s, 380s, 158s, 385s, 801s, 390s, 385s, Scotsman… Also they work with the companies that provide licensing and access.
It's the Scottish you really have to feel sorry for. Sure, they've had 3 routes, but look who made 2 of them...
There is also an element of third party impact here, two of the Scottish routes are Rivet and Just Trains is doing two routes out of Preston - a trend I hope continues with the Calder Valley line across to Leeds. DTG themselves only released 2 UK routes for TSW4, Peterborough - Doncaster and London Suffragette, they also did 2 remasters, Somerset and Cathcart. For TSW5 they are doing Euston - Milton Keynes and Cardiff City, and also remastering Paddington - Reading. Other than nothing in East Anglia or Northern Ireland, I don't think they could have done a much better job of covering a wide range of the UK.
For the record... This is yet to include the WCML and Wales routes. JT's WCML route will take the western half up to the Lake District. The Welsh route will be around Cardiff. That leaves the region from the Pennines up to southern Scotland, North Wales, anywhere in the region of the likes of Wessex and Dorset, and Anglia yet to be depicted. On the other hand despite one being considered Eastern region and one being Midland region, ECML and MML are practically neighbours. My point is that categorising areas yet to be depicted in the game by their designated regions on the railway system itself isn't very accurate when it comes to this subject. There are in fact vast regions of the country, even within the presently loaded LMR, which have yet to see a single thing. Some of that is because there just aren't any interesting enough lines there, others just simply haven't happened yet. One after another, they'll all get here eventually. It just remains to be seen which ones will come first.
Admittedly we did get the ECML in the old Eastern Region, but there is still a massive gap in the East which is yet to be filled by anything in TSW and has nothing announced to fill it. There are also other gaps including the North West (Cumbria), but this is going to be filled by JT's WCML and then also the South Western part of the SR and the far West of the WR (WCL isn't a great, or fair representation) which don't have very much there either. The only caveat to the number of routes being made in the LMR is that they do feel like different experiences and I think they do all feel different to each other with a mixture of BR IC & Regional services, Modern commuter routes, Steam routes, Modern Diesel IC services and soon modern EMU IC and BR Electric Loco IC services. I do think there are a variety of service types in the ER which can give a similar experience as like the LMR it also has two 'big' mainlines (ECML and GEML). Certainly for more in the East!
I reckon there is a good argument for continuing with doing busier lines as apposed to quiet rural backwaters with maybe one train an hour. Actually it looks like DTG are going down this route (!) because of WCML, Suffragette (trains every 15 mins plus freight) and Cardiff, the latter is especially significant as a lot of lines in Wales are very quiet. Seeing plenty of ai about transforms the experience I think.
I think this is exactly the case. To add onto this, which of the following would you prefer? A route with a timetable like the original, layer-less WCL with not even 100 services for the entire 24 hour timetable and maybe one train passing you for the entire 50 mile run? Or something like Blackpool where on a much shorter 20 mile run you might get passed by five trains? I think the overwhelming majority would give the same answer. Even a short line like Glossop was still pretty decently inhabited, with somewhere between two to four services passing you on the other track per run, and that's not even counting extra layers. Perhaps in the cases of these sleepy branches, it might be wise to take a page from the likes of the Seaford or Ormskirk branches, which were included by connecting them with another, busier line in order to increase traffic and replayability. Many of the lines on the Cardiff route will actually be similarly quiet in terms of traffic, but coupled together the overall timetable probably rises to several hundred services.
Honestly, I'm not too bothered about regional areas as long as the fundamental gameplay is good, and the trains themselves are interesting, I'm generally happy. My main issue back around TSW2's time was all the Southern based content was focused around Electrostars. For example, DTG could've made Brighton Mainline more interesting by having it set in BR or NSE, with older slam door stock. When they changed focus on other regions, it was just nice to have no Electrostars in sight for a while. The thing that bothers me about TSW right now is there isn't a lot of variety in the era that DTG's content is set in, they need to start mixing the eras up a bit between releases. I'm hoping that JT's amazing work will eventually sway DTG to return to making some BR based DLC of their own here and there.
I couldn't agree more, total southern bias. But there's only 1 North East route - Tees Valley. What's the second you're counting?
There are five Southern route and eleven London Midland route, so not sure there is that much total Southern Bias!
The underground is different, of course, but the lines now titled as the Suffragette Line and the Lioness Line were both part of the London Midland region of British Rail.
There'll always be a bias. The point is I think it's not intentional. (Equality of outcome vs freedom of choice) Scientific polls have shown if you're asking people to pick a random number between 1 and 100, an extremely large bias towards the numbers 37 and 73 will emerge and manifest itself eventually. Youtuber Veritasium has done some interesting research about that. So can we get the Class 73 then please?
Stop pandering to the majority. Instead let's go for one of the extremes in your 1-100 example. Give us the mighty Class 01
Well DTG will certainly be hoovering up the plaudits if we get one of those. Where did 55 come in the list?
Interestingly, The Bakerloo Line runs next to an LMR line and north of Queen's Road joins the LMR DC Lines (Now Lioness Line) As for the Suffragette Line, it was an LMS line though, in British Rail days its ownership flipped between London Midland and Western Regions. I didn't add those two to the LMR list because they're now part of the the TfL network. Otherwise it would have LMR -13 which makes things worse.
The four largest cities in the UK are London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow. All of those are served by what was the London, Midland and Scottish Railway (LMS). It's almost as if the most trains are in the areas with the most people...
Doncaster - Peterborough. It ends in the old Eastern Region but it's predominantly in the old North Eastern Region. Peterborough is probably the only station on the TSW network could be described as being in the Eastern Counties.
If you do it based on population then London should have 50% more routes than Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham put together.
Like I say, I would definitely love to see more of the Eastern Region as there is still a massive gap in East Anglia, but this section of the ECML is, undoubtedly within the old Eastern Region of BR.
Geographically the ECML line is a bit East Midlands and what would normally be described as the North East. Granted, if we're using the original BR Regions the it does fall entirely within the old Eastern Region so it's time to celebrate that we're only 12 behind the LMR.
With the WCML get attention now hopefully for southern region will get the attention next for a small hit of routes specially the south western for 2000 and onwards and BR/Network southeast slamm door time frames. Wales getting a route is good and I can see more coming after its release. Hopefully steam routes will return as well. Hopefully with a tank engine.
That's the gist of it right there.... different people want different things. I'd prefer a quieter line with more to do. But then, I don't play it for the fast pace, lots of stopping and commuter "rush" of lots of passengers, etc. Then again it'd be interesting to see how much one's personal background influences their likes/dislikes. Does someone from London used to riding those trains want to see those trains, while someone from the rural areas tend to want to see rural routes? Seems it might be the case. And of course if you're marketing to the most people, it's going to skew towards the cities.
I don't buy for one second that route choices are dictated by which former BR region they represent. No one at DTG decided to do Euston- Milton Keynes because they thought "ah yes we need another London Midland route". It's not as if there's anything interesting in the eastern region anyway (I'm joking).
If you want to see regional bias, look at the TSW choices in the US. It's all about the east and west coasts, ignoring the vast rail network in between.
Sadly that's partly due to DTG doing the following.... -Not having a license with commuter lines (Like Metra) -Refusing to do historic content -Stopping US freight routes due to lack of access. Its why routes have been stuck around LA, NYC, and Boston recently. And I don't see it changing till we get a new operator on board, or HIS makes their route somewhere away from these areas.
See, plenty of us from the borders measure cardinal and intercardinal directions from Haltwhistle, the geographic centre of Britain. North = Edinburgh Northeast = Berwick East = Newcastle Southeast=Hull South = Leeds Southwest = Liverpool West = Carlisle Northwest = Glasgow XD Tyne Valley Line WHEN? This has been a stealth Tyne Valley Line post, brought to you by the committee for adding the Tyne Valley Line to TSW
You do have a point actually. I feel like people always forget where "North" truly begins. I always raise an eyebrow when people say places like Sheffield are in the North. I'd struggle to say it's in the North of England, much less the North of Great Britain.
Aren’t we lucky regions have already been officially decided, so we don’t need to have this argument.
I dont mind any route as long as it is interesting and enjoyable to ride, with at least enough curves and switches etc so you dont fall asleep
Sheffield is definitely North, I would say any further south than there is the Midlands though. I also (like to) think that Lincolnshire is East, rather than East midlands, as I do hate the thought of being grouped in with people from Wellingborough, Kettering, or Corby.
I think it's important to separate "regions of the UK" v "British Rail regions of the UK". Were I to go for "Eastern counties of England" then we're definitely in a blank spot. I have no doubt that DTG know exactly what they're doing when they decide on a route, I'm in no doubt that they are aware that East Anglia has plenty of TSW players but no routes there. The excuse we get is "Can't get a licence for Greater Anglia". Railways have been going on in the Eastern Counties for over 150 years before the latest franchise owner came into being and the region's railways were always more interesting before the recent fleet renewal reduced it to two types of traction across hundreds of square miles. It looks like the future of TSW is whatever lines the current stock and a handful of additions can run with, that'll be the basis of our traction and route collections. JT could, maybe should, have gone for the far more common (and useful) Class 86. My heart sank when I saw they've gone for an 87. Yet more traction that never ventured East. LMR, you're good, ScR too, albeit by Rivet, Southern's TSW future will be assured too once they've had a break from third rail projects. Wales, you'll get an Avanti route in the North. We had the same lack of interest of East Anglia from DTG with TSC. The GE line (released in time for the Olympics) operated entirely with dreadful debranded Class 360s, the route was buggy and had some really obvious errors. TSW won't even go there at all, ever, I promise. Even the usually Anglia-centric ATS are feeling the pull of the DTG magnet dragging them towards the North West.
Well the reality is that not every operator is interested in joining tsw or they restrict access or they see it as a risk. Look at mta for being so involved in lirr 2.0 they made dtg remove certain things. There's sbb and their recent decision to not allow any safety systems.
