Wcml South - Not Good Enough

In the WCML south preview, it was seen that off-map destinations on the PIS aren't set up properly. The 390 service that was played terminates at Glasgow Central, and therefore the PIS should display Glasgow Central, however instead it displayed Milton Keynes, which is the in-game destination where the train ends.

This is an issue that should not be seen in 2024, especially not when almost every route has off-map destinations set up correctly.

DTG Matt DTG Alex DTG JD Are you able to confirm whether this is fixed in a more recent build? This should not be an issue at this point in TSW's life.

 

Same as all the other broken stuff on the route. It's another DTG rush-job right now:

- No suspension on the class 350
- No GSM-R on the class 390
- Large missing gaps of OHLE along the whole route.

Same old problems...

 

next thing we see is a Service terminating at Frankfurt (M) Hbf displaying Frankfurt (M) Hbf on the ICE T's PIS despite the service terminating at Frankfurt (M) Hbf, so that should be fixed if that's the case

I hate myself for saying this holy flip

 

Absolutely agree. But then nor should the horrendous lighting, the broken tunnel flares (I mean, seriously?!), the non-working GSM-R, the empty platforms, the absent night & environmental lighting, the missing suspension at the first time of asking, the poor standard of route building, the lack of functionality in the train, the incorrect formations and so on and so on. It’s all just such a huge shame, especially on such a flagship route.

This is what passes for the next generation of TSW5 lighting ladies and gentlemen;



Shambolic.

 

I think I might cancel my Deluxe pre-order, get the free starter pack and wait to see if any of these issues get addressed.
I was looking forward to this, but somehow today it's all just fallen to pieces.

 

Business as usual for DTG. Tonight’s stream actually agitated me with how sloppy it all looked.

As above, it’s all just fallen to pieces.

 

considering the lighting for each coach has always been like this, also often notable on tunnels, stations like this just show the true face of it.

reading the whole thread makes me feel a bit bad for pushing 67,48€ into TSW5... I am not sure if I am actually going to cancel my preorder, but if the Frankfulda preview is going to be as disappointing as the WCML preview appears to be... I just hope it won't.

 

I agree 100% I did do a poll posing the question a while back asking should DTG fix things in TSW4 before creating new content and a lot of players still wanted new content. If you don't hold DTG accountable, they will just keep creating and publishing unfinished or broken content. And this is probably why we got a free version because DTG know they haven't fix half the things wrong with TSW4.

 

Yup, vote with your wallet and DTG will listen more than any words put on their forum.

 

Inconsistency in features irks me. Why don’t we have neutral sections? This should be a standard feature for all route now, especially since we’ve already had it in routes before!

 

Havent preordered, will mostly depend on how im convinced by the german content.

 

This image does all the talking!

 

If theres one thing that we can usually basically rely on it is that German content will be good.

 

I was going to pre order the deluxe edition I'm glad I haven't judging by some of what I've seen in the stream I might just get the free starter pack then buy the route at a later date if it's better

 

I mean, there are a great many issues with this route, but the night lighting is pretty up there...

 

i've renamed the thread, was turning into more of a feedback thread for the route, which is good. DTG should see and understand that what we saw tonight is not good enough, and we expect better!

 

That is just insulting to people paying money for this. There’s no other way to describe it.

 

Yeah its not looking that good but beware they have mentioned that this build is not the final release. Ive no clue if this will bring some but its fair to mention.

 

Lots of us asking about the 1972 Stock timetable were totally blanked as well - I can only assume this is because DTG know it's inadequate.

Absolutely no reason they couldn't have shown it along with the rest of the timetable - something is definitely being hidden.

 

Buddy, we’re 2 weeks from release.

 

DTG Matt Are you able to confirm whether the release build will have working off-map destinations on the PIS? As stated previously, this is a standard feature in almost all routes now, and it should not be the case that a core TSW5 route in 2024 doesn't have them working properly. I understand that this may be an early build where they're not working yet, but these issues normally don't get fixed or addressed (eg vorarlberg), hence the concern I am showing right now!

 

Thought it was a bit disappointing how the DC Lines from Queen's Park to Harrow are virtually unchanged from their TSW2 representation, also no 1972 Stock ECS moves to Kilburn High Road or Watford Junction railtours which could've easily been added.

 

I don't think it's the worst route in the game but it's clear it needs more time in the oven there were so many bugs in the livestream.
Lighting, lack of suspension and lack of off-world PIS seem to be the big three for me. Also the timetable doesn't seem to be totally accurate

 

Matt told that they bring in new lightning and other bits today so its fair to say they have time to polish but nothing big but night lightning is not that problematic. And this build was far behind the real build are. Thats was Matt is story and i believe the part that its an old build

 

Honestly a little embarrassing, this route would have been acceptable in TSW2, but come on guys, really?, no off destination displays? In the fifth iteration of the game.

 

I disagree mate. The lack of night lighting is fundamental, and means playing at night, dawn, dusk or in poor weather is effectively not possible.

This close to release history has taught us this is what we’ll be getting. You’re kidding yourself if you believe anything different.

 

This route isn’t entirely bad, don’t get me wrong, but it’s just super underwhelming in the 5th version of this game.

 

Another thing to note is that the intermediate timings for the timetable are all wrong. Check the below vs what is in the stream (it's the first 350 service played) - the service start time is correct but then the timetable in-game lags between 1 and 2 minutes behind the real thing.



The last time this happened was on Edinburgh-Glasgow and Bernina, where Rivet had used simulated timings and then simply rounded them to the nearest 30 seconds. Not good enough for a TSW5 headline route, at all. DTG know what the expectation is, and to fake a timetable in this way isn't good enough.

Also noted a complete lack of railtours and very little static stock.

The fact that the entire Bakerloo section of the line wasn't previewed was very telling as well - I'm guessing it's not been updated or isn't even finished yet. I was really looking forward to this route the most but now I'm reconsidering my pre-order. Very poor show, feels like we've slipped back several iterations of TSW.

 

I'm actually quite glad that I haven't pre-ordered yet because after the hyped announcements I wanted to wait for the streams first.

For me, a lot now depends on how good the German content will be. Frankfurt Hbf is all well and good, but if the route (and vehicles) themselves are a sloppy job like e.g. the Maintal-Bahn, I'll hold off for now.

And especially:
To be honest, I can't understand why (allegedly) old builds are always used for such important preview streams. I mean, you have to show what you have and not point to an old version if the reaction of the community is bad.

 

Even if that wasn't the final build the route should of been better to showcase really GMSR broke pis not working on the pendalino

 

Okay did you know how old this build is what they show on stream? No! For sure not and maybe they have a build thats already 4 weeks old?!

 

Is there usually that many 4 car Class 350s running around?

 

Well…one of the leaks has an asset linked to rivet games for WCML, I wonder if this is their doing

 

I am glad the 377 and 72 stock are getting suspension at some point, it is nice it is getting added to older trains

The class 390 also looks good, I like details such as the coupler extending animation. I am glad to hear it can couple to other things.

I think the timetable for WCMLS could use improvement though:

• There don't seem to be many 72 stock services
• No railtour services
• No RHTT services
• No ROG 37 services

It is also a shame that several basic route features seem to be missing, such as:

• Third rail sparks
• Deep snow
• Neutral sections
• Off map destinations
• Depot interiors
• Good night lighting

Overall I think the highlights were the class 390, and that the 377 and 72 stock are getting updates. I think the deadlines for routes need to be relaxed, the route itself has a lot of potential but it seems like it needs some more work.

In terms of the stream, I thought Daisy's insights were helpful and interesting, and it was nice to have her on the stream.

 

They did say they were working on the night lighting (though I haven't got my hopes up).
As for the PIS situation, that is frankly unacceptable if it makes it into the release build

 

the glazing is crazy

 

The timetable certainly isn't their best either

 

If it were you giving the first example of your annual flagship release would you use a month old broken build, or would you use the best you had available?

Time will tell which of us is right. There might be a couple of small tweaks here or there but if you’re expecting it to be hugely different I fear you’ll be disappointed.

Although they won’t answer the question, I’d say with a degree of confidence that this route wasn’t built by DTG. It has all the hallmarks of a certain other developer.

 

Sorry i was talking about night lightning and not lightning in general

 

TSW2 standards is a very big overexaggeration. Yes the route has issues but they aren’t game breaking or bad to the point where it gets unplayable. The route definitely needs more time. But it’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be

 

Me too. Missing environmental lighting which makes the twilight hours and night playable is as fundamental as the daytime. The difference is the night lighting is due to the non-placement of assets, whereas the daytime mess is down to incorrectly set up lighting (particularly eye-adaption) and materials.

 

night lighting has been an issue since the early days of TSC. When people do remasters of TSC routes, they usually go over the entire night lighting. Two exceptions are the Köblitzer Bergland and the Berlin routes. They have great night lighting.
Is there any TSW routes that have great night lighting or have they all been bad?

I can´t help beeing a little amused about folks beeing so greatly disappointed... some of them arguing with me a couple of months back about how TSW is the greatest thing ever. What a change of heart... at the same time I´m back on the ride because of Frankfurt-Fulda, JT route and ATS route. Let´s all hope they do some updates for the WCML.

 

Missing off destination displays, (seen with WCL), iffy scenery, seen with pretty much all of rivets routes, timetable and layers on the dead side

this route has all the hallmarks of something created by rivet.

 

If I went for the free version, I would want a refund

 

I don’t think you would get much back from a free game but ok

 

Noticed some erroneous AWS speed warnings for turnouts when the route was in fact set for straight ahead. In reality I believe they only be on when the turnout is set. Also noticed some extra AWS ramps when there should only be one, and some missing ramps in tunnels iirc. Not a big problem though, the signalling seemed OK with approach control at Tring for example .
Overall I was impressed with the product as a whole. Pis issues don't bother me but the majority seem to find it a big immersion breaker, which is fair enough.

 

No, but from the state of that I want money back and that says something.

 

This is what happened with TSW2 lighting, it's not supposed to be expected with TOD4.