Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I've come to the conclusion it's best to skip a full year in TSW, wait until the public beta (day one purchasers) is over and buy TSW5 stuff when TSW6 is out. You'll be paying less which compensates for the bugs you'll still be encountering.

Cancelled my preorder too. Waiting for JT's WCML over Shap, as I can already see Euston - MK being a huge disappointment.

 

I don't know what you mean...as I drive along with fuzzy wheels on my ps5

 

Public beta...funny and hitting the nail on the head at the same time, pretty much what TSW is at this point. Pick up TSW5 when TSW9 comes out and you might be good, maybe?

 

Last month someone found an artist on Art Station with some TSW assets which someone narrowed down to the Tring area. It was posted alongside information saying that they were a freelance doing work for Rivet.

Rivet have definitely had a hand in this. Sure, they’re doing the Leven branch but it’s a bit weird how they haven’t announced any other routes or rolling stock since the Fife Circle. One possible explanation is that they’ve been collaborating with DtG on the WCML south and helping build the route.

 

Oh Rivet were involved alright, all the evidence is there, also have you noticed the 350 and 390 layers are only layering into Cathcart, a route Rivet were also involved in, hence the poor lighting and non existent night lighting at stations on that route, until the remastered version.

 

The fallout for this is a lot bigger then I anticipated! DTG remaining quiet and keeping their cards close to their chest isn't helping the situation, and I fear if they don't respond to some of these concerns in the next few days this could affect TSW5 (at launch anyway) quite drastically, there will be sales on day one, no doubt, but no where near what they could of been. I've not seen a fallout and disapproval like this had since Fife Circle. So it'd be in their interest to address these issues as soon as practically possible.

It is disappointing as some of the issues raised were asked days before the stream and seem to have been purposely avoided, so it's not as if they didn't know these questions were coming. To avoid them completely is very odd as I've already stated in my review of the preview.

The preview itself was set up quite professionally, and with Daisy's informative answers and if these questions or faults would of been addressed, I could quite easily of seen this being one of their most popular sales to date. Burying their head in the sand has really backfired.

 

The sparse timetable and lack of standard core features is the dealbreaker. The subpar scenery is disappointing, but to be expected given the amount of stations, route length, and the fact that it’s a DTG route. What is unacceptable is the number of core features missing and the timetable. The timetable clearly needs a complete Joethefish overhaul.

The unrealistic timings and lack of services is unacceptable. I swear during the preview stream they did a full run on the 390 and saw zero overground 710 services and like one 72 stock. In reality there are 3-4 overground trains per hour and even more underground services. You’d be passing 710s and 72 stock trains every other minute between Euston and Watford on the 390.

 

SierraOscar95 Better use DTG for Dovetail Games. DT is known in the train simming world as "DigitalTraction".

 

The Class 710 is every 15 Minute from end to end the whole day
But the DTG Timetable have 90 Minute no Train driving from This Starting Point and thats the entire day that you don’t wanna see a Train for This Long time

 

It’s interesting that the community managers only comment on threads with positive connotations. Anything negative and they become Ostriches.

 

No worries. Taken on board for future posts!

 

I definitely won’t be buying on Day One.

 

History seems to be repeating itself. DTG released this route for TSC in 2020 that went all the way to Birmingham New St, and What a disastrous launch that was. Now this?! This is their second crack at this route and they STILL can't get it right. What happened?! We had the Goblin Line which is beloved by many and some would label it one of Dovetail's best routes and then the Class 380. I've seen nothing but praise for the 380 and was genuinely hopeful that DTG were on a comeback after the aforementioned DLC and announcing TSW 5 being a free upgrade. How have they dropped the ball this hard?

 

There still may a huge silent majority who will be wow Avanti/GSMR/PIS/Moths/Rivetrgreat. The rest of us will save our cash or spend it on the properly done WCML route with the traction with 2 handles.

 

Of those, 'management' is the most likely explanation of why an advertised release date of "4-6 months" from July became mid-September. Would like an official explanation, though.

 

every single dlc should be handed over to skyhook immediately after release, they’re the only dev who are competent enough to fix whatever issues a route has

 

Hmm I've been a passenger on Pendolinos many times from Euston with having family in the Midlands and the North and I can't say you see them that frequently.

As you saw in the stream you get to quite a high speed quite quickly coming out of Euston on the 390. The Pendolino can get to Watford in less than 15 minutes so with a service pattern of every 15 minutes you would only see 1 or 2 passing you southbound.

WCML is busy but I think some people have unrealistic ideas about what it's like visually because of media reports. The real challenge of the line is the patching challenges that having a mix of high speed, commuter, and freight traffic has - similar to the ECML but with a bit higher volume. I think based on rough maths the preview timetable looked to be about 80-85% accurate. So it's almost there and may be fixable in time for release.

 

Yeah, Skyhook have no products that released in a poor state & were abandoned.

 

Whats better than a slap into the customers face in not delivering promised & advertised fratures?

Just sell the suspension ghost a second time to the paying "betatesters", and slap the lie right into the face again.

I have to say i enjoyed the hype because i like to get hyped.
Nomatter ill kept my wallet closed with a salty smile on my face, because i dam.n knew it...

Today my expert line 101 is prepared to haul a vectron consist from hamburg into the good yard of lübeck. A lot of stuff to do.

 

I wonder whether they used a skeleton timetable (particularly on the the DC Lines) to reduce stutters in the preview.

 

Thank you Alex!

 

Can you confirm if the Class 710 and 1972 stock timetables are final?

 

And the timetable in its entirety.

 

What about all the wrong Timetable issues with the Class 710 and the 1972 Tube Stock?
Are you Aware of This?

 

Thank you for taking in the feedback, we all just want the route to be the best it possibly can.

 

"we are working to understand if any improvements can be made prior to the release on September 17th"

Uh-oh. So Rivet signed it off in their usual slapdash way, DTG signed it off and the half-ready version we saw last night appears to be the final build. I was at the very least expecting a "it's not the the final build" and "the LO timetable isn't the final version".

They've been so busy deleting WM branding since they got a Cease & Desist letter from the TOC's solicitors because someone forgot to ask their permission to use their brand (frankly a schoolboy error for a business). There's been no time to quality check it, so to keep to the current release schedule they're just going ahead anyway.

As a business person, I'm baffled at how badly the TSW brand is being managed. DTG should pull the release date and go back to Rivet with a list of rectifications needed before Rivet can see any of their money.

I need a new job, is there a vacancy at Focus for someone who can co-ordinate with all stakeholders involved in future routes and oversee quality control?

 

"Just to set expectations correctly for the launch of Train Sim World 5, we are working to understand "IF" any improvements can be made prior to the release on September 17th." At this point "IF" really isn't the word than needs to be used when answering problems with TSW two weeks before early access launch. Hard facts without the use of "IF".

 

I did watched the stream a little later but DTG seemed to have stepped on a rake once again. Questions seemed cherry picked for the most part. Showing off a buggy route that is apparently an old dev build, with poor lighting, seemingly devoid of passengers and scant other traffic, does not inspire confidence. Why not postpone the stream until a "good" build was available? Is this is what early access will be rewarded with on the 12th? (maybe even the launch folks on the 17th).

It does beg the question: if routes like WCML were given the time needed to be top quality, would DTG still be a profitable company? If yes, get your 'kin act together please.

 

That update says nothing really, I suppose congrats are in order for implementing a feature that was supposed to ship with TSW4, but didn’t, then won’t be in TSW5 core rolling stock until after release either.

IF, IF you can make improvements before the release in 2 weeks? Have I been teleported back in time to TSW 2? Was I mistaken in thinking this is a yearly release & not a Rivet DLC?

What on earth is going on DTG?

 

TSW 5 is another rushed work to see our Money for a poor Work with so many issues like all the years before.
Wake up DTG it’s 5 Minutes for Midnight.

 

Sounds like a load of corporate nonsense to try and curtail the backlash. It drips with insincerity, and I don't believe a word of it.

 

The build that you saw last night is not the final build, it's not even the release build. Several issues were noted during the stream on which Matt commented that they were already fixed for beta & release, but weren't in the version that was shown on stream. (Due a logistical reason)

This doesn't mean that the release version is perfect, but it will be better then what we saw in the preview.

 

okay, not all are brilliant but mml, the scotrail 158 and the cargo lines have all received good treatment

 

Yeah & that’s a huge problem, that’s every single time we get a preview we hear that, and then guess what? we get a release build that’s full of other problems.

These preview builds are by & large within a very small margin of the release build. When you see something like this that needs significant changes, they don’t come in any release build.

 

That's the usual excuse. Funnily enough, Rivet used that exact same excuse for the FCL preview...

 

Unless they can say they will fix the lighting and that wasn't the intended LO timetable then I'm getting a refund and going for the free update instead.

I was really upset they ignored East Anglia once again, I was prepared to give WCML South a look even if it's not the most interesting mainline out of London and they've certainly picked the dullest era in the line's history in terms of traction.

This was the big one for DTG UK to prove they can make a busy route but with the same care and attention they gave GOBLIN. With the comical oversight regarding the WM branding and some glaring errors with the route that Quality Control somehow didn't spot, DTG have egg on their faces.

 

I know that they have used those words before and although I am returning to the community from TSW2, back then they used the same phrasing. (For example, the weird floating light orbs at Munchen station that are still there)

I don't have enough detailed knowledge of individual stock and routes to discover most flaws unlike the experts in our community. I only really notice issues that stand out or are game breaking. For me, as long as I can have fun and enjoy the routes / train offerings then it's a good purchase for me.

Personally my best advice is to only buy it if you think that you'd enjoy it. At the very least, we can get TSW5 for free in the first 30 days and you can always upgrade to get this route after release.

 

DTG Alex Was that a placeholder LO timetable? Those services run every 15 mins. Not every 90 minutes.

 

Well I see Alex has responded elsewhere on the board on a thread not open for replies, but it barely addresses the main issues being raised, just the suspension. And reading between the lines it does look like the can is being kicked down the road on suspension and presumably everything else. So those of you who are sticking with it, don't be surprised when what you saw last night turns up on your gaming machine on 12th or 17th September. The lacklustre response completely vindicates IMHO my decision to cancel the order and put the £54 back in my Steam Wallet.

Maybe SCS Software, Asobo/MS(FS2024) will be more worthy of it.

 

Yeah, basically Alex/DTG control the narrative through a non interactive statement in response to the players not happy with the state of TSW5. But it pretty much has confirmed, what you saw is what you get, so put your money away and save it for Christmas.

 

Well, it didn't take long..

"Just to set expectations correctly for the launch of Train Sim World 5, we are working to understand if any improvements can be made prior to the release on September 17th. However, our teams have heard your feedback for the West Coast Main Line route, as well as the content included, and we are reviewing areas we can address for potential post-release updates.

Something we can confirm coming after launch will be suspension improvements for the new Class 350, the Class 377/2 and the 1972 Stock, which we were unable to highlight during our preview due to issues when testing and implementation."

I think my expectations are now set precisely where they need to be.

 

Currently browsing the Run 8 store and just wishing I could use my Steam Wallet credit to expand my route and rolling stock collection!

 

Yeah I'm doing similar. I've dusted off derail valley with the persistant jobs mod (and others). Also enjoying a Take On Mars playthrough again.
It's a real pity because I had genuinely thought DTG had turned a corner. I'm sad for the hobby, but also for many here who had hoped for better. Looking at it purely empirically, I don't see much cause for optimism as we all know the history of delivery of promised upgrades post launch.

 

I see he (Alex) posted similar in this thread but, with all due respect, it was a load of meaningless PR speak waffle. Specific points, like the timetable and lighting, not addressed and vague platitudes about listening and future fixes are not good enough. We've heard it all before.
This will be another route, like so many before, dumped out with multiple issues and left to fester in the hope that in six months time they can dazzle us with something new and WCML South will quietly spin off the DTG Flywheel.

 

It's a shame Alex gets hauled over the coals, for statements that are probably signed off by someone else but posted by him.

About time we had a Director of QA stream, where the person actually accountable for the ongoing sloppy standards is brought to task by the community.

Unfortunately whoever that person is, they suitably hide behind Matt and Alex.

 

London Overground run trains on all services every 15 minutes, that is a simple fact. The Underground is even more frequent, every 3-4 minutes.

 

I would hope that the updated Bakerloo service mode timetable is bundled with WCML rather than the ye olde one that came with Bakerloo on release. Joe's new timetable was very busy and great to observe, so it would be fantastic if the 15 min DC is interwoven with that. Which stations do they share tracks with the tube trains? (if any, I know they share track at some point but don't know about stations)

 

If that is true how come the branding had been removed for the stream? The withdrawal of the license just occurred.

 

London Overground share tracks with London Underground north of Queen's Park all the way to Harrow and Wealdstone.

In fact, if you have the Bakerloo Line, you can see that Queen's Park has 4 platforms. 1 and 4 are for the Overground.