Wcml South - Not Good Enough

heaven help us if Eurogamer reviewed TSW5 if it launches in current state (of what we’ve seen).

 

Probably give it a ‘recommended buy” lol

 

Perhaps we can convince Digital Foundry to do a multi-platform tech review.

 

I’m ngl the scenery is not the issue here. Scenery is actually really good imo they got a lot of stuff done properly

 

3 days... it took me three days to read everything and to reach the end of this thread

 

The PC version would have Alex in tears with the lack of shader precompilation, the pronounced UE4 traversal stutter, and the almost complete absence of modern graphics options.

 

Eee! I remember the good old days when the biggest complaint was the colour of the ballast. Happy times.

 

are you joking

 

This route is very poor quality by the looks, I have been to Euston plenty of times and even travelled from it and it is busy, even in the main concorse it is jam busy of passengers waiting to board. There is a lack of 8 car 350's which is a negative, Bakerloo isn't busy as well as overground, The 805 or voyagers would have been a great addition, hope they make this route better. The positive is it has 350's and pendo, just these need to be amended

 

Exactly, thank you!

 

Yes, but we are not as far as TSW5 and a company is giving us the free update to TSW4...I mean a new game TSW5. I said it before, DTG need to fix what is wrong with TSW before making more stuff, but some people think otherwise, well this is the outcome. Listening and reacting are two different things, if DTG rhink they can get away with something by kicking the can down the road they will, it is up to us to advise them no.

 

I haven't pre-ordered any version yet, was on that side of the fence that saw nothing particularly exciting in the preview material. Still too many emus that seem to drive themselves with over powered traction and silent running.

Two things persuaded me to simply take the free core update ( nothing much there either is there? ) and wait with fingers crossed for WCMLN and MBTA:

1. That dreadful stream led by someone who seemed to be unprepared and looked to be trying Mr. Peddlesden's patience at times. No-one seemed to have much enthusiasm for what they were presenting. Reminded me why I rarely watch streams these days.

2. If I had any inclination to buy, the appalling night lighting pushed me over the other edge of the fence. What is it with DTG and lighting, especially at night?
They occasionally get it more or less right ( SPG, BPE, ECML ) but then go right back to the BCC/Glossop standard.

Many of the other issues are perennial, like empty termini, scenery deficits and shortened timetables. There's that lack of final polish that shows a hurried rush to launch. I can just about tolerate these problems.

But that night lighting? ............Grrrrr.

 

Could be.

 

And I'm not going to listen to anyone telling what I should or shouldn't spend my hard earned cash on, if I want it, I'm buying it.......

 

" The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. "
( apologies to WS )

No-one is telling you what or what not to buy, just stating their opinions. Take it or leave it, but no need to play the victim.

 

There is very little "Value" (as a middle-manager would say) in fixing issues unless there is a potentially negative commercial outcome. This is why some smaller fixes needed from TSW2 go untouched those routes have served their purpose for the financial periods following release.
This is one of the most negative reactions I've seen from a DTG route possibly since the TSC WCML South route released. They were pretty responsive back then and the fixes/updates done within a few weeks made it a good route in the main.

 

There are only 30 350/1s so if they were all 8 car that would be a maximum of 15 sets running at any one time, even fewer if there are 12 car sets about. If they had’ve included the /3 and /4 which are in the same livery and have 2+2 seating but don’t have 3rd rail shoe beams and some other minor detail differences DTG would’ve had 50 units to work with or 25 8 car trains. If they’d have included the /2 as well that would add a further 37 giving a total of 87 units to work with, however the /2 would require a new interior since it has a 2+3 seating layout.

For comparison the BML has 75 possible 377/4s and 14 377/1s to work with, this also shows DTG are not above overlooking minor differences to have more units as 377/1s have a very minor seating layout difference to the /4s.

 

Your money, your time and do what you want to do with it. However, this problem will just keep happening if give DTG money for a faulty product, your choice.

 

Yes this is, what I was getting at.

I know with Brighton Main Line DTG needed the 377/1s and /4s to fill out the timetable. However with the 387 sets running at 12 car sets I often saw the same set numbers turn up a few times during the same service run.

 

Absolutely no martyr playing here, just as they are stating their opinions, I'm stating my intention of never listening to the mob mentality of a bunch of forum users.........

 

Basically if a company can get away at saving a buck they will, if they can send a product to market unfinished they will, if they can not fix certain problems because of the cost...the list goes on, business are self centered creatures, but cut off the its food and then there is a problem it wont like. If enough noise is made, they will listen.

 

I wonder if TSW doesn’t keep track of active set numbers very well as I think there should be enough GX 387s for the timetable the BML has?

 

And that's the key point, it's faulty in your eyes (don't mean just you), the vast majority of people, and that includes me, don't see it as faulty, yes It could be way better but everything in life can be better, but it does what it says on the tin, you drive trains, so is it faulty?, nope not at all.....

 

Indeed. Gatwick Express have 18 Class 387/2s and nothing else. It is likely something to do with portals.

 

I don't see a mob mentality. There is some genuine disappointment at the quality being put forward with WCML compared to ECML last year, though as I've said since watching some of the stream for myself it's maybe not as bad as I thought. If anything, I think many of us are conflicted - I certainly don't want to reward DTG and the sub contractor we think built the route for mediocrity, OTOH the German and US route could be quite good but sadly the most economical way to buy those (and the Flixtrain) prior to a sale some months down the road, is the Deluxe pack.

I am coming round to the notion of reinstating my order, not so much for WCML but because I'm hoping the other two routes have been built to a higher standard, well the German route almost certainly has been though god forbid it turned into another Maintalbahn. But I need to watch my step as if I preordered again then cancelled again, Steam are probably going to yellow card me.

 

Yeah, IIRC they don't tend to give 2 refunds for the same product if bought again.

 

You put more effort into this thread than DTG put into the route.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

 

I think either GWE remaster or Preston Carlisle would be the DLC's of the year for tsw5.

 

I agree with you Vern. I am predominantly a UK rail enthusiast but just recently embraced the German routes as they offer a better experience in general than the UK routes. The variety of trains both driveable and AI traffic, the length of the routes and the scenery etc.
Indeed I would stay well away from the UK routes if it wasn’t for the PC mod makers. Here’s hoping some of them can work their magic on WCML!
I so want to support DTG but they make it so bloody difficult at times!
I’ll be watching the German preview stream with keen interest.

 

So only rivet dlc have missing services? Surprise. So does some dtg content. Bakerloo, original lirr and new york trenton didn't have the full timetable. In fact very few routes have the full timetable because there's always newer stock that release later down the line that doesn't get backported

 

Bakerloo was not a DTG route.

It was created by just one guy in his spare time, as a "passion project".

 

As notified to me in another thread, the German preview is not until 11th September, which cuts it rather fine for the start of Early Access.

So I have, somewhat reluctantly, taken a leap of faith here and reordered the Deluxe version. Part of me tells me I'm a fool for doing so, but taking the wider view there's more to the content pack than just WCML South.

 

I'm not talking about the remake. I'm talking about tsw2

 

Why exactly do you need to preorder this far out? It's a digital good, it's not gonna be out of stock launch day. Even the few times I have preordered a title digitally I do so only a day in advance, and in that case it was largely just so I could nab the preorder bonuses and/or let the preloading do its thing before launch. Preordering days, much less weeks out makes zero sense for digital items.

 

I don’t get how this line doesn’t have neutral sections when other older routes have them. Heck even Rivet implemented them on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route. If the 87 does layer in as a railtour then the missing neutral sections remove one of faucets of driving said locomotive.

Is a yearly release schedule of 3 headline routes and a new game too much for DtG? Should they instead go for a new release every 2 years instead which affords more time to nail things down and get things right?

It’ll be interesting to see the stream for the other 2 routes forming the headline DLC for TSW 5 and see what, if any problems are visible.

I do think that the crunch of producing 3 routes for a set deadline of a new game is probably too much as DtG is more than capable of making great routes - Goblin was genuinely great. It looked great, there was a tonne of detail and it was very engaging.

 

Yes, that's pretty much how most businesses work. I'm subjected to huge IT challenges in my job because certain long-awaited updates I need don't affect the side of the business that makes the money. I'm bottom of the list and that's why I've been off with stress and anxiety for 4 months.

 

It could be way better and you admit it could be better, but it won't be if you keep hand over your hard earned cash.

 

Probably right, but what's done is done.

Off to play with some steam trains in TSC, for now!

 

I think the German Route would redeem DTG in my opinnion, I don't think WCML south is bad, just think it needs a bit to be done, thats all

 

Everything in existence could be better, you could be a better human being, I could be a better human being, that's called life, and also yes I am going to keep giving them my hard earned cash, might even buy a couple of more copies too, just to give them a little bonus.....

 

It's not so much the era but the quality and workmanship for that piece of content. Look at the stock we got from it with multiple liveries and engine iterations of the pacer, the nice simple announcement system, the new liveries for the other rolling stock. It's not so much the comparison with era but you can just tell how much care and attention went into Bpo. The clutter and scenery also looks fantastic.

With DTG we don't seem to get that level of care and attention on routes. Suffragette was good don't get me wrong. And it was a step in the right direction that made use of layers and other content. But the amount of content that JT squeezed into BPO is just unlike anything we've seen before in my opinion and many others.

What's meant by a comparison with BPO is that JT made a route pretty much as good as they could make it. You know how much time and effort and detail went into that and I was very happy to pay full price for that level of detail. I just don't believe that we get that same level from DTG content. Whether that's corporate pressure etc or other factors I think this is why everyone compares everything to BPO because that's the level release could get too.

 

Blackpool's also just a more impressive effort considering that JT did all that detailing on basically their first try, and on a route that's actually fairly lengthy. I just don't find DTG doing such detailing on a route half the size with four or five years of experience that impressive.

 

You havent the remit to speak on the behalf of 'the vast majority of people'. You have only your own opinion, unless you have privileged access to data. I, like you, care not what people will do with their money beyond its probable impact on the output of the DTG franchise, and I recognise my own limited ability to influence the direction of that. I thank you for sharing your intentions to not listen, but point out the contradiction inherent in then posting about peoples opinions of which you are not listening..

 

Couldn't put it better myself

 

I just didn't want to miss out on the talk for everyone else trope that alot of people seem to like throwing around, so thought I'd give it a try.....

 

If someone wants to spend their money, let them.

 

Fair

 

Playing devil's advocate me thinks

 

I haven’t *yet* decided on a refund, it all depends on DTG. I would like to see a little more honesty, transparency, and engagement with the players. It seems a lot of the hard questions (DC lines timetables, route development information, lighting deficiencies, etc.) have been neatly sidestepped in the interest of positive marketing, to the protestations of many of the core players who have spend thousands on TSW.

 

Why not get them to refund your money and have it in your pocket while you decide?