Why Dovetail Games Makes Me Angry!

The point I was trying to make is your health and mood matters most. If something continually causes frustration, you're better off dumping it. And as I understand, the OP had already done so a year ago, just to come back and see nothing has changed the way he hoped.

That DTG roller coaster is going on since 2009, nothing really changed. It's highs and lows permanently. Expecting that to change needs a reality check and decisions that you are making for yourself, not depending on others. The "others" won't change!

 

I haven’t left and come back. I don’t know where this has started. As previously stated, I had a previous profile (see my signature), but it’s still active.

 

Anyway.

I see this topic, which states that DTG (acting as the subject) is making you (the object of their actions) angry (negative emotion).

I'm addressing this issue trying to help the object how to deal with something that is not about to change (no base for claiming otherwise - your choice is binary, take it or leave it).

And often it's people making themselves unhappy, there's people twisting the fact that the core update is now free into something bad. Trying to make them see the other side of the medal results in you becoming the target of their anger. (-> stay away or agree. Like a poll with "Yes/Yes" choices.)

This is not meant to be dismissive. Try to change DTG, become a shareholder. What feedback they are using to improve themselves is purely their business. If stuff sells, the CEOs and shareholders are happy, that is what matters to them. You need to understand this even if you don't like it.

Venting your frustration is fine, we all do it. But making a thread about it, you will get disagreeing comments naturally, and should be open for these. Which in the end is completely your own decision, see what I mean?

 

There are different levels of anger. I’m not so angry that I’m at risk of bursting an aneurysm or a blood vessel or that my life is being made miserable. But I’m angry nonetheless that DTG cannot consistently deliver quality content. There is always some fly in the ointment that ruins what should be a great experience.

 

This hasn't changed in 15 years. Just go to early pages of the forums. It's always the same topics repeating. Expect it to go on as it is. WCML South will end at MK.

 

It must be the weekend or something.

 

Yep it’s our weekly “special threads” moment.

 

slightly off topic, but when I leave work, my shift manager (and good friend) always says "See you tomorrow" and me being a smartass I reply "If either of us doesnt get blind till then"

 

I believe that level of anger is best defined as 'mildly perturbed', here's hoping we don't progress to 'a bit miffed' with the other route previews.

 

If the product causes you as much angst as you put forth in your numerous post, I find it amazing that you don’t follow that advice. I usual do move on from such forum posts but do backslide occasionally .

Every release of almost every DLC follows the same repetition, the anger, the angst, the calls for boycotts, ad nauseam. It is a predictable as the sun rising in the east. If I wasn’t having any enjoyment from a product, I would move on. Constructive criticism is one thing and should be encouraged. Ranting over things that have been ranted on before and expecting different results seems to be a bit optimistic. But by all means, it is your right to do so.

 

if I encounter and issue/bug, my first instinct is to check out if it isnt my mind playing tricks on me, which happens... if not, next step is asking ppl here if they also have that issue, and if yes, then if there is a workaround etc.

and if not, or I am in the process of getting an answer, but either grow restless or get the feeling that it hasnt been solved yet, I also file a ticket... and then it either gets fixed, or not... and if not, I either learn to live with it or play the content a bit less, since most of stuff that ever happens to me isnt very game breaking, most of the time

 

I find personally that this is one of the more insidious elements of being active on the forum, and I genuinely struggle with remaining detached fairly regularly. I guess its because I take peoples words at face value and seriously, but it often leads to unwanted emotional and physical (tension etc) reactions in me. I guess we all have a role to play in this place where we share a common interest and pleasure in railways, to help others see it in themselves when that is happening and encourage them kindly to step back for a moment of reflection. Not all of us are young, or familiar with the protocols of a life online, and its terribly easy to get caught up in the moment..

 

Nope, I’m staying well clear of this post.
It will only lead to bigotry and excessive toliet humour.
Adios amigos

 

the best thing here is that there are ppl who know way more than me, also cos some either are or were real engineers/loco/train drivers, or just very advanced railfans, and they can help me discern if sth is a bug or a feature, since some "bugs" that I posted here actually turned out to be some things that I just misunderstood or didnt know about a route/loco/train (like the fact that on Acela the power cars dont tilt, just passenger coaches, unlike some tilting trains where the whole thing tilts)

 

oh and do you guys remember the "Taurus derail controversy"? sparked by some guy whose name I cant pronounce (in Chinese/Korean script, cannot tell those apart, sorry), who very loudly complained that Taurus did derail at high speeds... and when I thoroughly tested it out in Training center and other routes, turned out that the guy was "testing" this loco on routes/sections not designed for those high speeds by big margin (like trying it on a curve that had speed limit 100 and going like 220 )... and then, because the discussion was kind of bloated, Matt DTG stepped in and explained that Taurus actually had improved physics regarding center of gravity (cant and such shenanigans related to how train stays on track, forces etc), so it was actually SUPPOSED to derail at certain speeds if driven over certain curves, as it should also IRL if driven that way

or my own craze over neutral sections, which turned out to be Free roam bug which kept breaking neutral sections functionality - OBB 1116 doesnt still have it tho :/

 

I disagree the last realeses DTG had have been great LIRR, London Overground and the 380 with Cathcart upgrade all top notch so not going down hill. More just stepped in a pile of...

Because yes this release is seriously a step back, no a hop its so bad. Bit before I jump onto the pitchforks everything is worse rants come out maybe lets see if the other 2 routes are bad quality.

From what I read it sounds like Rivet were contracted out for this route. If that is true than there is the reason. Fife Circle was a bane in the middle of good releases. And I would put this on DTG making the wrong desicion on whonto contract out.

Now if the other 2 routes look great then we know that to be true. And if that is the case we should petition to have Rivet removed as a 3rd party partner.

If the other 2 are LOVE then I will be on board with you. But I have a feeling the other 2 are going to be good.

 

IDK, I'm not feeling it with San Bernardino. While the stock will probably be good, I'm not having high hopes with either the scenery or the freight layers. Hell, preview shots already show errors with them putting light poles in the middle of I-10.

 

I noticed that too. Honestly I don't think the gameplay on this route will be good. But that is just US passenger routes are really boring compared to European ones, unless they are in the NEC or Chicago.

Especially LA, which is more of a freeway city and not known for its great public transit. LA itself is very spread out and not very scenic in reality outside of the touristy spots. Aside from the poles it does look pretty spot on as the train travels through mostly industrial parks and is a very flat. Its not a scenic route in reality.

Ventura, Oceanside and Antelope Valley lines are the most scenic routes on the network. The rest is flat and industrial parks.

So I'm not expecting this to be a knock it out of the park route anyways. I'm more looking forward to the new MBTA route.

And the German one.

 

Yes I'm already kind of done with the TSW5 release. The core update is free as it should be because there's nothing in it as far as I can see apart from some UI cosmetics. The standard edition has 3 routes, one of which is apparently seriously flawed and two in which I have no real interest. Deluxe is, well I'm not paying for CJP a second time and for yet another overpowered auto-drive emu which will cover the entire route in the time it takes to sip your coffee.

I'm already fixed on the next JT offering and Joe and Brandon's Boston route. Those are the only reasons I'm even bothering with the free update.

As for the OP, he has a perfect right as a paying customer to voice his annoyance and frustration. He did so using moderate language and decent grammar. I guess he annoyed the apologist brigade on the forum. Fine with me.

 

Pretty sure the that's the consensus for most players, especially with Joe, Brandon, plus some outside help from those giving Joe on the TSC discord.

 

Why are you angry at DTG? You should be angry at yourself. It's already years you post threads like these. From open letters to polls and it's clearly not working because you keep staying angry. Every time you come with a new account that is so obviously you. You claim it's not you and when the proof is presented you start deleting the replies where you said it's not you. This creates distrust with me. Like you mention in topics DTG can't be trusted, you create the same image around yourself.

 

^^^^^^^^^ This (for me, at least).

I like to think that the way I write online is the way I'd say it to someone's face. Or the way I express my emotions are in proportion to everything else going on in my life, i.e. TSW isn't that important to me. I'm starting to recognise that my disbelief and incredulousness at what gets written in these forums ramps up and up until something happens which reminds me that I'm probably too old to understand how this all works, that where I see shades of grey, others tend towards black and white. Please, try to be kind and constructive towards other people, including those who work at or are associated with DTG and other developers.

 

This sums it up for me, we ARE paying customers and are entitled to good quality products. That isn't rocket science. Personally I give DTG credit where due, but make constructive criticism where needed, from what I've seen WCML is such an example. I don't quite understand the people that seem to leap to the defence of DTG regardless often with unargued one liners designed to put the OP down as if he is a naughty toddler. The same thing happened with Myron's post recently. Very demeaning. Worse still are the ones who turn it around onto the OP, who has been perfectly polite and coherent, being negative. This reminds me of the football club that got relegated where fans rounded on any other supporter who complained and called them negative. I think often negative can actually be honest.

 

If people are dishonest and lie to my face they loose all my credit. First I thought I was the only one who noticed the OP being dishonest about a lot of things but learned very quickly I was not seeing ghosts. It's the obvious way the OP tries to stir the pot that makes people ridicule what could have been constructive criticism.

 

Instead of shooting the messenger, lets look at the message. In that, there is much in what is said which is not unique to him. There are some valid points there about which the only criticism I might choose to level at him might be a tone of exaggeration. Otherwise I think pointing out areas of potential is an important tool with which to try and leverage DTG to both improve their own output, and also leverage their own 3rd party relationships to improve.
I think its important to draw a distinction between the individual and the message. This way the content of the message can be assessed, free from the reactions that might otherwise be present. Also, Im not very good at this myself so this is as much a self help message as anything else

 

Unfortunately the OP very much wants it to be about him, as evidenced in the thread title, (tongue in cheek) his avatar, and (less tongue in cheek) his signature

 

If I don't trust the messenger I also don't trust the message.

 

Yeah, I can agree with that. Maybe we can control our narrative though onto a more useful trajectory..

 

I prefer to avoid trust where possible, and base my assessments on something more tangible. In this case, empirical evidence derived from 4 years of TSW output, both good and bad, and other elements associated with reality.

 

Perhaps, but on the evidence of the other two threads created by OP recently exhibiting the same tendency, I'm doubtful

 

Like previous posts and previous identities on the forum

 

Bludgeon him into submission with reasoned arguments supported by evidence.. then let the lack of resultant credibility in any further responses do its own work. Success comes in many forms (by the way I'm being slightly tongue in cheek with this line of thought, but it's also semi serious).

 

I was referring more about the content of the message, rather than characteristics of the messenger

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this all stems from their attempt to have someone well known here on the forums get hired by DTG to fix the signaling on the New York Trenton route, he didn't get the backing they thought they would and now seem to just be slapping down what could be called bate threads trying to stir some faeces up.....

 

But it's the same message as the previous identities of the OP. Just trying to rile up a mob. The message even has the opposite effect with me. What I've seen so far of TSW 5 is on par with what I'm used to of DTG. The fact that I'm still buying into TSW must mean it isn't all that bad. Sure I want a better TSW than we have right now but the TSW I want is not really feasible at the moment. It would mean changing engine and having almost no routes. The TSW I want means abandoning all the content we have because it would start from scratch. I need to accept that or move on.

When I read people praising Blackpool I really don't understand why. I like that route and yes it looks better than most routes. Probably even best looking but the reality is that I don't play that route anymore. Tried it two times again in July and turned it of because it was boring in the sense of been there done that but I'm still playing the TSW4 UK base route.

For me DTG still needs to screw up with TSW5 as WMCL just looked to me like every UK route we get. If Frankfurt is a good preview I think the base routes might me be more suiting me than the TSW 4 routes. I did find the new features a little meagre but that might also be a positive not having stuff promised that will still take a year to build *couch**suspension*

 

I guess at the end of the day we are all made differently and respond to what we perceive as problems in a different way. Some are more likely to be proactive than others in their criticisms, whilst others are so laid back to be horizontal. I think the OP has some valid points and I can feel his anger to a certain extent when with a few exceptions, UK routes seem to be the ones getting porked both for content and distance. Fast trains need to stretch their legs and GWR wasn't long enough for the HST nor was MML, the ECML lacked a proper terminus station and now the Pendo can only do it's stuff for a measly 30 mins. Compare that to German routes and Antelope Valley for example. I could deal with that if WCML had proper local services in the timetable because I can Pendo on TSC very nicely, but that stream was the final straw to a lot of people really looking forward to this and like many others feel let down. I'm voting with my wallet. I don't do personal attacks as it's unpleasant to be on the end of them.

 

Absolutely, and you make your point well which gives your position credibility. The message he presented may well be something I agree with as a core topic, but the packaging means it loses credibility.
The opposite effect could be achieved by myself should I post overly positive messages praising a product or behaviour that clearly could be better. All that happens is I lose credibility and the position of those that support the product or behaviour is sabotaged.
Integrity is key, message delivery is important, and the whole being grounded in a sense of judging your audience against reality and your own desired outcomes. A lot of that might be missing in which case effectiveness of purpose might fail or succeed depending on your motive as outlined above.

 

I guess this is how OP felt on Saturday lol