Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I personally will not be cancelling my pre order of TSW5. For me personally, I believe this is a rare occasion where DTG haven't even met their own standards. I'm willing to wait and see what next week brings and if their is any more community engagement prior to the release that acknowledges specific issues that have been raised. I think they get the picture now, so the ball in is in their court so to speak... So let's see what next week brings.

 

At the end of the day I'm not going to reward the devs with RRP for a less than stellar UK flagship route that seems to have been rushed out and parts of it subcontracted to another outfit whom I believe is one that has a very poor reputation on here. How is it they can build longer and busier routes in other countries than they can in the UK? Putting a Pendo on a run that lasts 30 minutes with no, or just 1 stop is a joke. I'm not paying full price for that. I can run the same train London to Birmingham in TSC and download endless scenarios for it for free at the same time.
It's ok DTG deciding to make this game, which I do mostly enjoy, into a top end train simulator if they give us value for money. Routes like WCML and a few others don't appear to fall into this category. Hence when it reduces to what I consider a fair price for a 30 minute 390 run, with a skeleton 710 timetable and inky blackness at night etc. then I will add it to my collection. If they want top dollar then give us a product to match.
I am very grateful for the free upgrade this year.

 

The communication was the statement released by Alex, which pointed towards an "if" they can do something before release, which translates to a nope or not much chance. I am sure we will get more talk before the release of TSW 5, but that's all we will get I am afraid, DTG are in the ready to ship the product phase (he says trying not to laugh) The ball might be in DTG's court, but so is your money.

 

So the suspension feature was a key selling point for TSW4, which was confirmed to be fully working for TSW5 in the latest Direct. Only for it to be shown not fully working in WCML's preview stream. Am I perceiving this correctly?

I skipped TSW4 and was hoping to jump back on with 5. I watched bits and bops of the preview stream and seeing your mixed reactions here, yeah. Not looking good so far

 

`
They said clearly on the stream there had been some problems with it causing problems (which would have been game breaking and would have caused an even bigger outcry) and that it wouldn't be working for release but the intention would be to add it after.

 

I honestly think they should delay TSW 5 until WCML is brought up to standard. This likely won’t happen of course, but hey, making your customers happy doesn’t seem to be a priority here.

 

That's about the same thing they said when 4 was released, but fair enough.

 

You skipped TSW4? Wish I did, I spend my time sending crash reports to Sony a year on. I would at best give TSW5 time to see if it gets better, but it is just a rebadged TSW4 and on those grounds, stay on TSW3 because DTG haven't fixed TSW4. I played TSW4 today for 2 hours and I have had to send 3 crash reports to Sony, its beyond a joke, thats TSW4. TSW 5 wont be much better.

 

Yes this is what happened when TSW4 was released and has happened umpteenth times since. Whatever any persons view is on the sim, good or bad, it is out of order to tell others how they should spend their money. There have even been attempts to guilt trip people into not buying DLC.

If I like the content and know I will get enjoyment out of it then I am going to spend my money how I like on my main (at home) interest. If that annoys people who feel I should be joining in with them in some kind of solidarity movement, then frankly, tough.

 

I mean you have glossed over the fact that it is working on other trains. It is hardly unusual for things to go wrong when making things. If they said, we aren't bringing suspension to the class 350, I would join you in giving them stick, instead I prefer to try and be balanced.

 

Me neither, at the moment. If the other two routes turn out to be poor, which I doubt they will be, then I likely would. However I don't believe WCML is poor, except for aspects of the timetable.

 

How dare you use such a word as "delay" in DTG presence. DTG won't stop the money train for nobody, we will get a TSW9 preview and it will just be wire frame vector graphics.

 

What makes you think delaying TSW5 is going to make customers happy, just because some people on here think it should be delayed does not mean the complete player base would agree? Not everyone will even be purchasing the deluxe or British version, why would you want to delay it for them?

 

Nobody is telling anyone not to buy the content. People are just stating their opinions. Do what you want with your money. No need to act like a victim

 

Seriously what does anybody expect? They spend more time marketing and ploughing their efforts into the next thing rather than moving the needle on the stuff they already have. If they were builders they'd start a wall and leave it missing bricks or unpainted.

That's why the yearly release is a poor idea because they cant get it right with their product releases and everything gets kicked down the road in order to make a fast buck and hope you all forget it. But you know what? You reap what you sow. So those that constantly bite back about criticism can sit down and play this hastily put together rubbish and never complain, after all devs have families to feed, or something.

Definitely going nowhere near TSW5.

 

Leave him to it, you get what you pay for.

 

Yes, looking at how TSW3 was put on the shelf rubbed me the wrong way. At the time I felt it had a lot more juice left. I was happy with the state it was in and I had fun. Sadly that all went out the window when they announced 4.

 

It irks me that they avoid previewing the game on consoles, despite 2/3rds of their player base being on console by all accounts. They can preview stuff on console, because they’ve done it before. Also, why are they previewing developer builds? So close to release they should be previewing the release build of the game. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

 

Night lighting?

 

Yeah, of course, absolutely fair. I'm eager to find out what happens next.

The WCML has been a favourite of mine in TSC. Racing up and down the line with a 390 or an 805, chef's kiss. Or a late night or early morning stopper service on the 350, just wonderful.

 

The scenery, like the foliage, stations and stuff is modelled quite well, you can’t even deny it.

 

Crazy how we are in the fifth instalment of this series and the furthest we go is MKC

 

It has happened several times. I myself have been on the receiving end of it. People on this thread are criticising people who have pre-ordered.

 

Yeah, I was happy with my TSW3, it worked, didn't crash every time I played it, so imagine my excitement when DTG brought out a new version of TSW (TSW4) with suspension no less, I thought all my prayers where answered...NOPE!!! Problems getting DLC over, months and months of updates to try and fix the game and no suspension.

 

I didn't think it looked awful. It's never been great but it didn't seem any worse. It wasn't as bad as BCC. It wouldn't be enough for me not to want the content. The timetable is my main concern as for me it is the biggest boon of TSW.

 

How can DTG go further if they can’t even get this route properly done?
This route definitely isn’t trash, I know, but if you are missing key stuff like off destination pis, neutral sections and more, the route is just mid.

 

Well I would rather spend my money and enjoy it that spending my time coming on a developers forums, for a game I can't stand, being miserable.

 

The fact DTG don't have a working product this close to release tells me they are working their asses off trying to get it ready for launch, that is how tight the margins are and that is too tight, the game will launch with bugs and we will pay for the privilage of being the public beta testers (phrase borrowed from someone in the forum, thank you)

 

Stating an opinion and telling someone not to buy are two different things which in this thread, has not happened. No need to act like a victim. Personally, I don't see the point of pre ordering games in general as there aren't really much if any benefis of doing so. But if someone wants to, nobody here can stop that. So no need to pull out the victim card

 

The licence problem I can forgive, LOVE happens.

The suspension problem, I can kind of forgive....just.... it's a new unit and although told it would have suspension, I kind of get it that there will be delays with it being a new unit.

HOWEVER, what I can't forgive is the awful, terrible non existent night lighting (I thought this was finally sorted, judging by previous routes), awful lighting in tunnels/bridges with no occlusion (come on, this had been improved in previous routes), no Neutral sections (this feature appeared in previous routes, though admittedly not working as should), missing OHLE, no off map PIS (mostly working in previous routes), improper timetable timings and a heavily cut timetable at that.

Roll on JT's Northern version, just spent a few hours on BPO and thoroughly enjoyed it

 

I am confused about the suspension thing, maybe you guys can help clear this up for me? Are we getting suspension in all trains from TSW5 onwards or is it from TSW4 onwards as DTG announced suspension as part of the WoW factor for TSW4's launch. Or are we still up in the air about this?

 

Suspension was supposed to on all TSW 5 trains moving forward

 

Just to reiterate again there’s some confusion about the issue with the night ‘lighting’. Unlike daytime there is nothing wrong with the lighting if it’s set up correctly, but there is an issue with the total lack of placed light sources, which is why the scene is pitch black in so many areas. The last route that really suffered with this was, surprise surprise, Fife Circle. Haymarket Yard and Murrayfield were pitch black, and large areas further up the coast were the same. DTG’s routes have been vastly better in this regard for a decent length of time, although I was very disappointed to see the Cathcart Circle revamp had the exact same issues it always had.

So there is nothing wrong with the actual night lighting setup, except that the lights actually have to have been placed in the first place for it to work properly.

 

*the fifth installment of the title and logo of the series.

 

Errr, but it was promised for TSW4 trains. Thanks for that, so it will be TSW6 then.

 

There is zero clutter/mess for much of the route - no railway line/station is this tidy! It looks unfinished

 

You do know the saying “Misery loves company”.

I feel these forums epitomizes that statement. I think the best was in a thread where a certain aspect was pointed out as being subpar and as the discussion continued, more and more peopled dog piled on the criticism of the route with many cancelling their pre-orders… then I saw a comment where one who cancelled the pre-order was finally able to watch the stream and decided the route wasn’t as bad as being described in the forums and was reinstating the pre-order. Go figure.

Anyway my friend, let them have their discussions, I navigate and set my own course as I feel you do from many of your comments.

 

Have to disagree. DTG routes have definitely not been " vastly better ", lit at night for a very long time. There have been some exceptions like SPG, BPE and ECM ( somewhat ) but then there are the egregious examples like BCC and Glossop. I actually think Cathcart improved a little with the remaster but it's still not good enough.

Overall, their record with night lighting is very poor and inconsistent. The most frustrating aspect is the inconsistency which shows a rushed mentality and lack of care and polish.

I've noticed that they are often reluctant to show routes at night in previews, presumably because they are aware of how bad the night lighting is.

From what people are saying, WCMLS falls into the " not good enough " category.( I didn't watch that part of the stream.)

The issue of night lighting is so frustrating because there has never been an admission on DTG's part and no explanation has ever been forthcoming.

We all have different (or indifferent ) eyesight but we all know what central and, especially, suburban Birmingham, London and Manchester should look like at night.

 

So are people who provide their thoughts on the route miserable because the feedback is negative or not what you want to hear? Would that saying apply if the feedback was positive or more to your liking?

People who provide feedback even if it is negative are not miserable. People who provide criticism do so because they want the route or game to be better. There are those who may not have a problem with the route. But there are also those who do have issues with the route and have explained the issues with the route such as lighting, the incomplete timetable, poor distant scenery amongst other valid issues. This game isn't perfect. But frankly the people who provide feedback are doing more to try to make the end product better than those who either turn a blind eye to obvious issues or may not have a problem with a product. If everyone just said everything was fine and didn't point out issues, then the game wouldn't get better

 

I see it this way. If you buy a box of cereal, open it up and discover it's only half full and contains only 3 raisins, those of us who would loudly complain are " miserable whiners ". The " good guys " are those who say " oh well, that's OK, they'll get it right next time.

 

It’s interesting how some forum members simply won’t have a bad word said against DTG.

Are these people DTG Employees, DTG Shareholders, DTG Ambassadors, DTG Ambassador hopefuls (DTG seems to have more Ambassadors than paying players at this point) or just have blind faith - despite all the evidence to support those with negative viewpoints.

Of course, they are perfectly entitled to this positive outlook, but I’m not wholly convinced.

 

Being miserable? They did a live stream and stuff was a mess three weeks from launch. Goodness me.

 

Sorry, you comment does not make sense since I was replying to a previous comment on people being miserable. I wasn’t commenting on the comments.

You have to ask the people making the comments if they are miserable or not. But reading through the comments, it would be hard pressed to derive they are happy.

Finally, I haven’t put forth any opinion on what I think of the route so how would you know if positive comments would be more to my liking or not. My whole reply was really more of subliminally pointing out “group think” and one should plot their own course. Looks like I was too obtuse in making that point for some.
Best

 

It was a question on the statement you put. I just asked if you think that if the comments were positive, those individuals wwho posted them were not miserable considering that I see similar comments whenever there is a thread or comment that contains negative feedback on a route. It's not difficult to figure out the premise of the question

 

Context my friend Context…

have a great day

 

The only route with truly good night lighting and lighting in general is Dresden Riesa. Other than that, TSW has always had subpar lighting. Nighttime is either too dark or too bright and daytime lighting always has everything look super washed out. The WCMLS looked particularly bad with tunnel lighting way too bright and the night way too dark as it seemed like station lights were non-existent or not working.

 

It was a simple question but ok....

 

And I gave a proper answer in the context of my first post. Sorry you missed the meaning of my reply to the Organist, but your question is not pertinent to that context so best to move on.

 

After watching the stream and reading this thread, I guess it's a good thing TSW 5 is on gamepass because my goodness this route has it's issues. People have already explained the issues very well but had TSW 5 not been on gamepass, I wouldn’t have bought this route.

Luckily the German routes are usually good quality so at least there is one route to look forward to

 

More like the people who provide feedback and criticisms of a product just want the game to be the best it can be. That doesn't make them miserable but I bet you wouldn't have said that had the feedback been more positive which wouldn't be a suprise