Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I think it's fair to say this forum can be hyper critical. My love of railways stems from childhood memories rather than detailed knowledge, so I wouldn't know that the OHLE is the wrong type, or whether the 350 should or shouldn't sound like the 380, those details being wrong won't impact my enjoyment of the route.

Having said that, I'm so grateful that the criticisms flow thick and fast on these forums, because it all helps DTG make better products. A common theme in recent threads is how WCML looks like a TSW2 route, and while that shows it's a step backwards from the standards set more recently, it really highlights how far the game has come in the last few years, a lot of that is because these forums demand perfection, long may it continue.

 

Just because people are not happy with the product quality doesn’t mean they are miserable.

Im happily flying MSFS and enjoying it immensely at this very moment. A quality sim if ever there was one.

 

Yeah, no matter what a mess the live stream was, what players put on the forum calling out DTG, some people will just not listen to reason despite all the evidence in front of them. They must be DTG Ambassadors or hardcore fan boys?

 

So, people are not allowed to complain, we are just suppose to say nothing and take it? Err no! As the saying goes "A fool and his money are easily parted"

 

Or just people who have much lower expectations which is fine. At the end of the day, people can happy with mediocre content, don't have high expectations or just don't have issue with the route despite bugs or flaws. They just shouldn't be suprised that people do have higher standards given that DTG have shown that they can make good quality addons or that people aren't expecting to play an arcade game as this game isn't advertised as one

 

I’m sure if some of us got a night in a Travelodge in Kent, access to the DTG Mothership, and a free tote bag and t shirt, we’d say whatever they want! Or not.

 

Yeah, I gave being playing TSW for years along side bus simulator, but bus simulator got dropped because TSW was a far superior product, sure it had issues, but it let you do things in a game on a console that you could only dream about, running about on the GWE. Fast forward to today and that drive to create a leading product is faded, now it is just a cash grab it seems, DTG deliver a half finished product with a promise they will fix it, last TSW4 took months of bug fixes, the DLC stuff didn't work for weeks. And then DTG spend the rest of the year doing DLC and trying to patch the mess they launched while trying to create a new version of TSW for September launch, DTG are just trying to play catch up all the time. I said it before, DTG need to focus on fixing TSW4 before attempting another version of TSW and I am right, this mess proves it.

 

Yep. You never bite the hand that feeds ya….

 

Sorry to hear that, hope you get well soon. I know it’s easier said than done as a fellow anxiety sufferer but the best advise I ever had was “don’t worry about making rich people (company bosses) richer - just do your best with what they give you and if that’s not good enough for them, they are not good enough for you”

All the best for a swift recovery!

 

You will find I am the one who started the thread moaning about the timetable, something which still concerns me.

For me it's about balance and and pointing out the good and bad. As far as I am concerned having watched the stream twice, some of the comments on this thread don't match what I'm seeing. However there are things which bother some and not others. This route in my opinion is not nearly as bad as some on here would have you believe. I wonder if everyone has watched the stream.

 

I did sit down and watch it, and for a key moment in the delivery of a product it seemed to me to be not massively well planned or put together compared to DTGs in house presentation on the TSW5 launch. I found myself wondering how much hands on time the people present had of the WCML before the stream, but it wasnt focused, meandered around subject matter and failed to address many queries that were legitimately asked. I don't know the area so for me personally it was the traditional elements causing me concern- lighting, occlusion, track shadows, scenery blandness, route activity, station activity and missing features. I felt, to put it kindly, that by the end the stream had treated its audience fairly indifferently

I can't get excited about it though. It is largely observational and subjective, but for me hoping DTG had turned a corner with the core update inviting people to upgrade, it marked a disappointing end to that moment of optimism. In all likelihood I will avail myself of the update, but even that I am reconsidering as I have TSW3 running well now with numerous tweaks to it to resolve those issues I listed above. I can't be bothered to go through that again unless there's a route appear that fits my wishlist.
Sample size of 1 but it's the drops that make the ocean, and for me my decision a year ago to forego TSW4 has been vindicated. I'm happy pootling around the Brighton region in my heavily tweaked TSW3 and the recent trend towards modern High speed emu point to point action leaves me cold.

 

I would rather give my money to DTG than the Government, which seems likely to increase substantially next month when Ms. Reeves delivers her first budget!

Anyhow the main reason I reinstated my preorder is the expectation the German and US routes will be okay. Yes I could have left it another week, but the funds are already in the Steam Wallet so at least once it’s ordered I can sit back and forget about it.

Yes I can be a bit odd about buying, refunding or doing 180’s on a previous stance but that’s just life. Everyone has different thought processes and mine can be quite mad. Life is a dynamic experience which plays out differently for everyone. Sheesh that’s deep for a Sunday morning. Better get back to the hoovering.

 

For me an incomplete timetable was the main reason i stopped buying tsw content a while ago (with a few exceptions i wanted to have specificly, for example like the 101 expert line). TSWs 24h timetable is "THE" core feature, which makes the difference to TSC. Going lazy here just doesnt make any sense and is a immersion braking NoGo

Purchaising day 1, or even preorder is something i stopped a long time ago. As soon i see there were cuts in the timetable, my wallet stays closed until 80% sale. So since the very first TSW5 core route seems to have a lacking timetable, ill just buy it in one year, except the german content surprises exponential, means a lot of extra mile. Cest la vie .

The route looks really good, except the unbranded content, which is "not" DTGs fault. Happy again i choose to be on steam, so im sure by the time i buy the route there is plenty of liveries available made by the community, or even mods which takes action against a very stubborn railway operator.

Seems to be a big issue with licencing, even my personal opintion is there cant be a better free advertisement for your own company, than your logo being on a digital product sold in the entire world. Unfortunately companies are full of "Goldfish Managers", they make decisions in their small world and will never ever notice, that they have finished the circle in their glass another time, just to start at the exact same spot again as before.

 

That's exactly my problem with this route, and also this game. They put themselves in the high end position as a train simulation producer and charge accordingly, then they go and sell routes that are chopped short like WCML and others such as ECML with no terminus station. They finally answer the requests of the community by producing what looks a nice Pendo only to place it on a route where it does an end to end run in a measly 30 minutes odd! That is bonkers. A bit like winning a Porsche in a prize draw on some island with just one road. Who decided WCML should end at MK and not Rugby minimum? I mean they do know the Pendo runs at 125mph right? A couple of tilts and the drive is over.

 

It does seem they are on their knees as regards route builders for UK projects, hence why this seems to have been pushed over to Rivet. As a minimum this should have been planned to go to Rugby which would have given the more curved section through Weedon.

 

TSW is hard to develop for. That is a conclusion drawn from shorter routes than previous simulations. It's probably time a for a new platform. I'm back in TSC (severely modded) and having a great time. TSW is something I check in on but to be honest am very bored with. The it's hard to develop for line gets trotted out alot and I don't disagree with that but the noise from the community over the WCML and ECML routes is loud. I think though that expectations need to be real as I didn't think for a minute the WCML route would go as far as the TSC one did. Only JT appear to have exceeded my own expectations with Preston to Carlisle being a decent route from a third party dev.

 

If they can’t do a route justice, is it worth doing at all? As you say a 30-minute run on a Pendolino may be fun for a few runs, but then you’ve pretty much experienced everything there is to experience. Route length isn’t a deal breaker for me though, especially if it’s given a lot of love and care, but they haven’t even done that for WCML.

 

Im still the same opinion as after the leaks. WCML should have been made to ruggby, now its a demo Run similar to GWE. Too short for the much awaited 390. Im sure there are many players cant wait to play Wcml in TSW5 as it is now, but im not looking forward to be honest.

For me the route length only goes to MK, with the unbranded content, lacking timetable is absolutley a deal braker!

 

Fair play for watching the stream twice, I couldn't. I watched as far as the guard mode when it crashed, Matt admitted they had tech guys working it, I switched it off at that point because my TSW4 had crashed 3 times that day before I watched the stream. 1 week and 2 days before we get access to TSW5 and this is what it is like? DTG are not going to fix TSW5 in that short space of time, it's not going to happen, if you are happy to get a half baked product then your choice, but you are supporting DTG bad decision making to release an unfinished product and they will do the same next year and it will be even worse because the money flow can't be shut off. If you are hoping the German route will be better, then at least to you see the Route in a live stream. End of the day, your choice.

 

Yeah, you are right, it just feels rushed. Usually when I see a live stream with a new route from DTG or Rivet, I am really excited and can't wait to get a hold of a shiney, highly detailed new route as I find the route quality have just being getting better and better. Remember the poor Tran Pennine how dated that route is and how the quality is not up to modern route standards, now I am not say WCML is that bad, but I can have it in the same sentence.

 

A 30 minute route DTG will probably claim they done a survey and that is what players have asked for in terms of route lenght/time. The problem with high speed trains is they cover a lot of ground in a short space of time i.e more work is required and is DTG in a position to produce that? This train/route could have being the Rolls Royce of TSW, but.....! I can tell you a 30 minute hop in the pendo will seem too short.

 

As much as I think players should hold off buying TSW5 and its DLC routes, I really hope DTG do a better job on the German routes for you fella, I really do. I hope the hoovering went well, there is an idea, DTG could produce a hooverying simulator, I know they have no experience in creating a simulator that sucks, but I am sure they could give it a go. I think the suck feature is due to come out in HSW4 (hoover simulator world) isnt it?

 

But would they be focused on “One Handle Henry”!

 

Three weeks before launch DTG would have to remove the Henry name because they lost the license.

 

Biggest load of bulls**t I've seen.

The fact that it's been only 1 year since TSW 4...

The fact that MANY if not ALL DLCS compatible with TSW4 are still riddled with bugs and glitches that you guys are clearly refusing point blank to acknowledge and sort.

How about you and your team grow a pair and actually admit that you all effed up badly?

Why is it that DTG too have also fallen into the trap of "Beta-quality/Full Pri-- *sorry* OVERPRICED* games/add on content?


If anyone at DTG had any sense of the words : Quality. Testing. REALISTIC TIMEFRAMES.. like you seriously think those who have played TSW since the first iteration are going to believe that TSW 5 is going to be any form of "fun" or "Enjoyable" or "Exciting" to play?

Judging by everyone's comments here, whether it be about the WCML route stream which I too think you guys better be joking about the quality coz I'm not laughing, whether it's about the game or even current DLC/add-ons in TSW..

You better hope that you can pull something out of those cash grabbing thieving backsides of yours at DTG... because frankly? Since TSW 3 (my opinion... ) you guys have become money obsessed..

Get your act together or continue losing players, continue losing partners...(Probably why you guys lost the license that you made a post about...they saw the MS-paint like quality product you call TSW5), and above all continue losing money. Be glad anyone is paying money at this rate...be glad there's still some faithful players who haven't canceled their pre-orders yet....

 

Now THAT's what i call a rant! lol

 

Do your thing sunscreen#8305

 

Do we know 100% that Rivet developed all/part of the WCML? Have DTG confirmed this?

 

The German routes will be better because its TSG that develop those isnt it?

 

No. The only thing semi-confirmed is that Rivet seem to have worked on an asset (and by implication, other assets on the route). The rest is speculation that seems to have taken on a life of its own

 

Well said!!
Now you know why DTG give away free keys to their increasing number of ambassadors….

 

Yeh thanks, thats what I thought. It does seem to have the hallmarks of Rivet all over it doesnt it?

 

Now that made me laugh out loud!!

 

It baffles me that JT can produce a FIRST route of BPO, at such a high level, yet here we are again, talking about a supposed “flagship” route from DTG, a MUCH bigger dev, having glaring issues throughout mere days from the general public getting their hands on it.

JT inevitably work on less at once, but their output is so much better. Maybe, just maybe if DTG slowed their output even a little bit, we’d get a product of much higher quality and more people would buy/not refund? Just a thought.

 

Just Trains Care about there Community to deliver high Class Content and DTG Care just about the Paycheck
They rushed the Routes with no Love to Detail

 

This thread went from constructive feedback to absolute ranting overnight lol

 

It seems to be the same now with DTG and TSW as it ended up being with TSC.
Not-fully-finished content being delivered as a way to meet deadlines, to the knowing detriment of quality, then they just give up and make a new simulator to cash in on.

I was looking forward to WCML, but the nagging feelings of overhyped but ultimately underwhelming content 'once again' from DTG have ended up with me hesitating to place a pre-order, when initially I was certain about it.

The route length is a bit dissapointing, but on its own I could have lived with.

The timetable is a major part of any route but especially this one, it's been hyped up as 'the busy wcml' but the reality is 'here's just over half of it'.

The other features that have been mentioned, suspension, off route destinations, the lighting in Euston etc... All of this in an individual sense would have been 'the only downside', but altogether they turn into many downsides.

It shouldn't be left to the community to be the final QA and do the final polishing up.

Yes, people on forums get, let's say over-enthusiatic, about things sometimes, but the general feeling is legitimate.
Please, DTG, we really want to enjoy the work you do, just do a bit better.

 

Well it seems very unlikely they'd hand the code to rivet jut to do one asset!

 

Like most people I was really hyped for TSW5 especially after the announcement stream. Not sure whether to cancel deluxe preorder or not right now. Is the feedback given to DTG really that helpful or useful to them? I mean isn’t it obvious by now that a large percentage of customers will be disappointed with incorrect timetables, poor night lighting, lack of details like stop markers (for 710), lack of passengers at busy stations, passengers walking aimlessly on the tracks, falling through bridges, sinking into platforms etc etc.
Personally I would much rather they spend their time on attention to detail than what I see as gimmicky stuff like Conductor mode.

 

Yes, and like JT they put their customers first.

 

Imo there was no reason to make a new game TSW4 still has numerous bugs and stuff and just be left like all the others same will be with TSW5

 

It looks like gimmicks sell, moths, pianos, lifts etc none of which have any relevance to the operations of trains or railway infrastructure. Target market click wow look buy.

Dinosaurs like myself wanting realistic operations are left wondering what the aim of TSW is. Guard mode may be a step in a better direction but I get the feeling we are only one step from working toilets.

Retention tank emptying mode anyone for TSW 7,8,9 or 10 your guess is as good as mine.

 

Bugs? What bugs? TSW4 itself is a bug, it just spends its time crashing!!! But do not worry, I am sure with TSW5 we will get new and improved bugs.

 

Don't be such a tease mentioning toilets like that, "build it they will come" Field of Dreams. Yes, they should work on the trains, routes and bugs, but bugs don't sell.

 

Its all gone a bit crazy on here. Though my initial reaction was that it felt rushed, I'd still be willing to give them the three weeks. I'll then watch the ambassador reviews on YT and make an informed decision about the released.

I suppose the difference is, is that I don't do the preorder stuff. I always wait for the release to come and go and see what the feedback is on the actual purchasable content.

I'm not loosing any sleep over it either way........

 

Just curious, what platform are you playing on? Reason why I ask, I haven’t had a crash in well over a year and I usually do a couple of hour sessions a week running on a PC. I do have some visual enhancement such as those by Jetwash, I just see you stating your game is constantly crashing and I was wondering why our experiences are so different, not questioning your experience what so ever, just curious as to the cause.

 

DTG ended on a high. All the unresolved issues within TSW4 they can now forget and say "we are supporting the core routes" thus sweeping aside another 12 months of bugs and misery for console players. If they bluff players long enough they can move on to the next DLC and keep raking the cash in. Rivet are masters of this, just look at Fife.

 

I am on PS5 and I have to do these reports everytime I play TSW4. I play and I have to save every few minutes to stop losing progress, yeah not good. TSW5...great?

 

Indeed, but its not even been confirmed "officially" that Rivet worked on it all, much less anything other than assets (hence semi-confirmed). The only tangible evidence is the picture of whatever asset it was (don't know if it was a house, a factory, or an x-wing) is what Rivet posted on their Facebook/Twitter/Myspace of an asset they were working on, which was believed (though not confirmed) to be a WCML asset. Anything else they may or may not have been contracted to work on is entirely speculation