Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Drive your one handled EMU with sounds from a Cylon disco for 1 mile at 5 mph, then revel in the joy of emptying the tanks, unlock the mastery and CHOOSE YOUR BUNDLE!

I think I need to go to my corner for a bit now...

 

Then you probably need to have your console or storage looked at. I've had next to no crashes on PS5 TSW4 with almost 500 hours of play, and I think others have said similar things in the past

 

It's weird that your crashes on PS5 result in a PS4 crash screen, the PS5 UI isn't blue.

 

DTG resolved all the bugs and glitches in TSW4? They did? Me backside they did. My TSW4 keeps crashings.

 

Not sure on the colour, possibly a camera quirk, but it is the PS5 crash screen; see the help text ("improve PS5 software" etc) and the fake light source at top left

 

It was the Posting House at Tring, so definitely a WCML asset.

 

Honestly, it's time to just give up and move on.

We started on this journey of Train Sim World in 2017. We're 7 years deep at this point, hurtling towards a decade, and it's just the same toxic patterns of profit and behaviour, round and round in circles. It's become painfully obvious that nobody is listening; nobody cares.

The reality is most players don't care enough to even visit the forum, less would be inclined to even register, and amongst the small fraction of the player base represented here, most of us continue to feed their habits, so all this ranting and raving in an attempt to improve the product is futile. They're not going to improve.

You've basically got to choose, pay for the content anyway in lack of any real alternative quality product being on the market, or just move onto another game / hobby.

 

Fair, I don't frequent The South so I'll bow to local knowledge! So that should confirm Rivet worked on one asset for the route, and likely (though not confimed in the slightest) other assets on the route, anything else is speculation

 

Mmmm maybe your on to something? I am playing Bakerloo, would that make a difference? It is a 1.049.000 version updated 15/8/24

 

Yeah maybe, but the console doesn't crash on other games, GTA, Call of Duty, Aliens etc. thats the rub

 

Well, I guess that explains why we have such different experiences. Thanks

 

I do think the silence from DTG on Rivet says a lot though. Along with the fact that mistakes they tend to make and DTG have avoided recently are present here.

 

Agreed. Conductor mode is a waste of time imo and now some are wanting ‘dispatcher’ mode…5 minutes of doing either of them would be enough….indeed watching Daisy check tickets on the stream…even she was getting bored!

 

They're not going to risk any business relationship or legal situations by throwing Rivet under the bus; heck, they wouldn't admit they used Rivet as a work-for-hire studio even if there wasn't all this controversy surrounding the product because that is an internal business relationship.

So the idea that DTG will admit this is all on Rivet is literally zero. Legal fees are expensive, and it's much safer for them as a business to just take it on the chin. Presumably they accepted the work that Rivet delivered, the business relationship beyond that will never become clear, and DTG will continue to take 'credit' for the route.

 

You should probably hit that big "support" button on the top right corner of this forum and make a ticket.

 

That's the same version I am seeing, no idea why the screen is blue when mine is grey, but as someone suggested above could just be how a camera interpreted it, either that or there's some kind of colour change option I've never found in the settings.

Random idea, but are you using an M.2 SSD? If so try running the game off of the other option (i.e. if using internal, use M.2 SSD instead, if using M.2 SSD then try using internal). I had a really weird problem with Gran Turismo 7 that it crashed constantly using the internal but worked fine when using the M.2 SSD. It didn't make any sense but moving it worked so I just got on with playing it at that point.

I haven't played Bakerloo for ages, so maybe it's a problem on that route.

It's good that you are submitting all the error reports, I remember devs on another game commenting that Sony got on their case when they had a lot of crashes submitted, so making sure we report all crashes definitely helps, both in devs learning where the game crashes, and in alterting Sony to any problem games on their platform.

 

I honestly don't know why high speed routes are in the

I suspect given rivet's reputation here they'd try and keep it hush hush.

 

She is sitting in the M.2 ssd. The camera picks it up as blue rather than grey, might be an oled thing?

 

I have worked in the games industry years ago. And in my experience the people at the top of the company will be demanding a game is released when its half finished. In my experience the devs know about the state of the content but higher ups want stuff out asap so they have zero time for real bug fixes and to fix the broken trophies so errors are made. They need to slow down releases to get stuff up to standard but what is going to happen is they have a never ending amount of new content which is broken and the situation is going to keep getting worse!

 

I would happily take a couple less DLC releases over the next year if it meant squashing a lot of bugs.

 

That is very strange as well. I mostly see 4 cars on the Chase line (Wolverhampton to Walsall or Rugeley Trent Valley to International)
And It is mostly 8 cars, very rare 12 cars are mainly on Weekends I am pretty sure if something big is going on.
Also Annoyed that we only have 1 variant of the 350 when we should have all 4 tbh.

 

Yea that really does bug me. Rugby would of been nice 81 miles. New street would of been something else. Again, UK routes always getting the lowest of miles. JT are now performing the longest UK route around 100 miles.

 

ROFLOL.

And Rivet would end up giving us a Ewbank carpet sweeper instead.

I still think all work on core updates has been paused to bring me my full on buffet and restaurant car service mode. Where, just like those little games on the iPad etc, you have to create increasingly complex meal orders to keep the customers happy. Though ISTR there wasn’t much complex about a Travellers Fare menu. Two or three sandwich types, Mr Kipling apple or fruit pie, pork pie, various biscuits, MaxPax tea or coffee and Coca Cola!

 

Yeah, you are right, it will just get worse and part of that is budget, they are trying to squeeze as much as they can out of small dev team in a short space of time. Kinda has an Atari /ET vibe to it. Players need to stop pre ordering and buying the game and give the devs a chance to catch up.

 

Catering started getting complicated when ICOBS started serving the Croq monsieur...that would need an expert level DLC.

 

No chance, money money money for DLCs, but they dont get paid to fix bugs, so which wins every time?

 

The problem a lot of these sim games face as they progress and get more players is that there comes a point where a large portion of the player base doesn’t care about the "sim" part and just wants gameplay. Therefore it makes sense from a marketing standpoint to stop spending dev money and time on the realism aspects and focus on gimmicks and gameplay stuff. Let's be brutally honest here, DTG could release a 390 with copy pasted sounds and physics from the 377 and it would still sell like hot cakes. So what’s the incentive to actually spend money and time on stuff like realistic sounds, physics, and intricate functionality?

Other sim games have experienced the same thing, but the difference here is that DTG essentially have a monopoly on train sims. There’s a few other niche train sim products out there, but DTG still dominates the market. Luckily, TSW does have a public editor now, so there will always be third parties that will create and release ultra realistic content. (The 101 is a good example of that).

 

The Toilet bundle is only available as part of deluxe pack. Clean 20 toilets and you will unlock a Sanitation trophy.

 

Because JT have a reputation to uphold. they've earned that reputation and want to keep it. Throw in some passion for the material and you've got yourself a winning dev.

 

JT want to produce something special. The extra detail such as loco names and liveries added to proper attention to stuff like headlights shows that they can deliver accuracy and entertain. At the expense of lifts and other gimmicks....

 

I've said this a plenty of times already, but it's baffled me why DTG have been so cagey and reluctant to answer such a simple question about the 350/1. It will not be able to fulfil the entire timetable without duplications (which would not be the end of the world, but its a minor niggle at those of us who notice such things).

Many players like myself recognise, and are completely satisfied with the 350/1 being modelled and featured, we don't want any change to it, or for DTG to add any of the sub class differences. What we are simply asking is for them to allow higher number ranges on the existing model to bulk out the time table and so duplications won't happen.

It happened with the 377/4 being numbered in the 377/1 range with no issue or reluctance discussing the fact.

 

I'm sticking with it and not asking for a refund. Controversial I know but I think this route will get fixed and at some point in the next month the usual legends will make mods for the route and possibly even the timetable. When fixed this will be a great little route. Whether the fixes are from DTG or modders, I don't really care.

However, I do have the Steam PC version. I'd have asked for a refund if on console because waiting for fixes on those seems to be a nightmare.

 

It shouldn't have to be up to the community to fix DTG's mess.

 

I honestly think it is disgraceful tbh, 5th Series of TSW and we still are getting this. I am very happy we are getting WCML but I expected it to be to Rugby. But I all understand it was for the 350. We just don't seem to get a longer enough Run with our British High Speed Trains which is a very shame yet Germany does. Like I keep saying DTG should be aiming higher not lower. I really like the DTG team but the way they have kept silent from all the feedback and constructive criticism is not great from our Point of View.
I ain't refunding it but they will and should make improvements but what we been told is that it was a Old build, why on earth you would use an old build to promote a highly requested product is beyond me to be honest.
Do hope it is an Old Build though.
But I am very excited just hope we get the newest build.

 

Matt said on the stream that the build they were previewing was not the latest one. Whether you believe that or not is up to you!

 

Yes, in the stream

None that exists

Probably not possible to put a number on it, but consider that Skyhook have done outsourced work for DTG on TSW since TSW2020, and its not unlikely that Rivet have also done outsourced work for DTG routes

 

I completely agree with you.

I'm not cancelling my pre order, it will definitely be a good route with bug fixes. I have more confidence in DTG fixing this either before, or as a post release update as the issues have caused a storm and it's not something they can run away from. I've got confidence in DTG and just hope they don't let me down on this one. I hope they understand the criticism is completely valid, and might not seem it, but it comes from a good place as we have seen what they are capable of and hold them to their previous works standard.

 

The class 710 timetable is the big thing for me, if that is addressed and improved (ideally with the 710 stop markers added to platforms too) then that'll be a big step in the right direction in my view

 

Markers addressed in the stream, "no plans"

 

well that's concerning then! Adding something like stop markers on platforms is a relatively small thing, but would be a big win for the route, so that's a real shame if no plans are there to add them.

while i don't mind the route is Euston to Milton Keynes and not beyond, it really does need a full and immersive timetable to make this route work in my opinion, and having 90 minute gaps on the overground route instead of 15 minutes (plus more gaps than expected on the underground trains) just isn't right for me

 

Let's hope when staff frequent the forums tomorrow they take a further read of this thread and reconsider some of the feedback and hopefully put out a further statement just to reassure players. I think it would definitely be in their best interests.

 

Does it really matter what build it is, during the stream when the guard mode failed Matt admitted there are bugs when it crashed. So, that is what we getting come release, bugs!

 

Im wondering if its possible for them to revisit the issues if the route has come from a third party. IF the contractual obligations have been met (and I have no idea how that even works for software or if the route was made externally), then it may be consequential.

I hasten to add this is just a thought and I have no idea if its a thing or not. Maybe if anyone here works in software and has experience of this kind of thing they might be able to answer that one..?

 

Yes, he did but why would they show an inferior build? Surely when someone wants to sell you something they should be doing their very best to make you part with your cash…DTG come across as the Del Boy & Rodney of games publishers!

 

I hope they have a very large mug of coffee handy…they’re gonna need it lol

 

Comment of the week!

 

I feel most of you, but majority here have to remember one crucial aspect here. Most of you who are very active on these forums are either train enthusiasts or actual train operators, who seem to know all the ins and outs of most all routes, which is both incredible and amazing. At least from what I'm picking up. I love coming in here, asking a question about something, and I get a textbook answer! That's amazing and appreciate such knowledge. That's great and a great value for anyone who wants to learn about trains, or just enjoying train simulation as a type of recreationalist.

But I'm pretty sure the group of people who are most active here are outliers in the great scheme of things (I'm thinking of the global TSW audience). As much as TSW is trying to please every single nuance you guys may have, you are not their main target group. There are about 500 people who seem to be active here, judging by voting on polls, but TSWs global market is way bigger than these forums.

Here, take me as an example. I'm most likely the perfect target group for TSW. I like trains and enjoy train simulation. Bugs on trains and routes are totally fine. Some are annoying, but it's OK, it doesn't deter me from enjoying TSW. Whether a route or a loco lacks identical inputs from the real world is not a big concern for me. I have no idea what or how the real stuff is supposed to be, but assume that it's mostly accurate. I find the scenery in general to be amazing, and so far I've enjoyed just about all trains and routes I've played (the US, UK and Germany). I own TSW2020, TSW2 and TSW4, all best editions. On top of this I also own additional DLC content, routes and locos. I'd say I've spent between £400-500 on TSW since I first bought TSW2020. I don't think I've ever spent this much money on any other game genre (I have on FromSoftware and the Soulsborne series, but that's because I collect the official guides which are collectibles) and continue to spend money here. Why? Because majority of players are recreational players who just enjoy playing train simulation, like me. As much as I appreciate most of your guys input, if TSW were to please this target group alone I doubt there would be any TSW. But still they listen to you guys and try to apply as much suggestions as possible.

There has to be a balance between things, and here I feel some of you guys are looking at this in a very narrow and a bit selfish way.

Just my 2 cents.

I have just shy of 800 hours across TSW2020 and TSW2. Haven't even started on TSW4. Again, the only games I've spent this much time playing is across Demons Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls Remastered, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring, as a total. Then at solid no. 2 is The Witcher 3 of 400 hours.

Final verdict and unpopular opinion; TSW is actually really really good!

 

It is really really good. Its like a great pair of shoes, always nice and comfy to put on. I think 99.9% of people here would agree otherwise they'd probably not be here.

I think the only hole I could pick in your argument would be the assumption that the global demographic you describe is known to DTG in terms of their wishes and desires, given they are likely silent as you describe. How can we know if they are satisfied if they never communicate that, unless the assumption is that inactivity equals satisfaction, which may be a valid assumption but without data is nevertheless an untested one.

Combine this with my own assumption in the opening sentences and we have a contradiction developing...

The people here who are vocal hopefully feel it could be better, otherwise the complaints appear odd.

 

I think the answer to this particular question lies in the DTG sales reports. I do not know whether DTG is a privately own group or whether they are owned by a publicly listed company. If they are private none of us are privy to their financial reports. If they are listed on the stock exchange via a parent subsidiary group, then it could be possible to find the financials and locate that answer.

Considering the progress they've made in mere 5 years from TSW2020 to the upcoming release of TSW5, growth in employees, I'd say they most certainly are experiencing good sales. Which would mean there are a lot of players like me out there.

 

If by ‘looking at this in a very narrow & a bit selfish way’ as you put it improves the game…then I for one wont be changing! If we were all passive players can you imagine where the game would be?!