Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Cash, Aug 29, 2024.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 20240118_focus_entertainment_q3_202324_en.pdf (focus-home.com)

    FOCUS ENTERTAINMENT: 2024/25 first-quarter revenue of €34.2m, driven by a solid back-catalogue up sharply by 17% - MarketScreener

    "This acquisition of this UK-based studio, with established owned IPs and delivering recurring revenue is aligned with Focus’ Strategy and is a step forward in moving up the value chain. Consequently, the Dovetail acquisition is expected to be somewhat accretive from a percentage margin standpoint."

    I think there's probably little doubt that they have a good revenue platform. The main focus for me though is to use what little leverage I have to try to maintain a more prototypical product. The market has plenty of less simulation, more gameplay titles- Derail Valley etc, and I suppose the central point is that the niche is so narrow, a vocal minority of purists is somewhat needed..

    I understand that not all are available to consoles but if one is after a simulator, or a gameplay based railway game, one does what one needs to do- buy a platform that caters for what one is after. If its a case of pandering to the central demographic of indifference, then the product itself will become indifferent. At that point it really drills down on the brand model. That might change, but atm DTG are positioning as a railway simulation towards the realistic end. If they moved away from that in pursuit of sales, it may well be successful in the short term but the brand would be in a sorry state and the reputation would nosedive. Sales would likely fall in the longer term which goes against the context of recurring revenue Id argue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Es4t

    Es4t Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2021
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    They are listed on the French stock market under the name of Pullup Entertainment SA.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. kaarealmighty

    kaarealmighty Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    146
    I'm not saying you shouldn't complain or put constructive feedback out there. They do listen, from what I'm seeing and reading, but they cannot please everyone. That's simply not viable financially.

    But it is correct that as long as people keep spending the need to improve bugs lessens. So there's that balance again. That means that what few people find almost a deal-breaker others find it to be just fine and go along with it. This is what I was trying to get across. And the latter group by far out weights the first.

    But please DON'T get me wrong here. Having such a passionate group like yourselves is very precious and necessary, otherwise DTG wouldn't be able to become better. Who would provide feedback? I know I couldn't. I'm just a player who likes to spend a couple of hours enjoying operating trains and the scenery. I thought tsw2020 to be awesome!

    I guess this very knowledgeable group could be considered DTGs anchor, or a band of two lines within which DTG will listen to you guys. But once you sort of start edging outside of those bands, that takes you into a domain where DTG cannot follow. That's because most of the money they make are outside those bands.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. arcsin

    arcsin Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2022
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    80
    For UK companies you can also look on Companies House website:
    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06751125
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  5. Absolutely. I cant argue with you there, and very kindly put.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,491
    Likes Received:
    3,144
    I’m not a financial expert but does Focus’ acquisition of Dovetail mean more pockets to be lined with the profits, which in turn means less margin on each project, and why it’s even more important that deadlines be kept no matter what the state of the final product? Please enlighten me!
     
  7. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2019
    Messages:
    2,316
    Likes Received:
    3,586
    DTG don’t have that autonomy because some TOCs believe it gives them negative PR. There’s a lot of things wrong with this route but I understand why they aren’t risking it, stuff like clutter and making stations look more alive is a bit of a 50/50. Which is why I understand, esp what happened w LNR pulling out
     
  8. kaarealmighty

    kaarealmighty Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    146
    I absolutely agree to all your points you mentioned, and as I stated in my previous comment; you guys are precious to DTG. HOPEFULLY, this acquisition still allows DTG to make most of their decisions so that it doesn't end up becoming "just another simulation" over time. But my point here is that when you start complaining that the lighting in the train station is not of the correct hue, or that the trees or scenery is not as in real life, then we are talking about granularities which far exceed the value of experience for the larger audience. I personally have absolutely no clue how the scenery actually looks like for any if the routes, nor whether any locos or carrigies are missing anything. To me they all look perfect. And this is what I'm trying to pass along.
     
  9. Yeah a lot of that stuff can be fixed with reshade and or engine.ini tweaks tbh, ironically unless youre on console. Ironic because it shouldnt matter so much to that demographic if you see what I mean..
    Its more fundamental issues that people tend to have that make up the more vociferous complaints. I wont go into that here though, but the loudest hinge gets the oil ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Well I think if an acquisition meant a dilution of profits then most companies would not welcome that. There's not much I guess can be said about specifics without having access (plus Im pretty thick when it comes to this kind of thing) but the following general article is quite a useful read..
    M&A Deals: What Are the Advantages of Mergers and Acquisitions (idealsvdr.com)

    IAG is a good example of how companies can remain autonomous under an umbrella organisation. Their success is fairly obvious and the resilience it provided was there to see during covid. What it can mean though is that any strategy needs to fit into the umbrella vision, and DTG very likely in my view cannot dramatically alter course without consequence. The core being free for a month is a trial, and I'd love to know, but almost certainly never will, how much dialogue there might have been and with whom in order to get that decision taken.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024
  11. kaarealmighty

    kaarealmighty Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    146
    Hehehe. :)

    Just take it from me, being a total rookie when it comes to trains, but slightly fascinated by trains. I personally think DTG are doing awesome work. Sure, I'm not sure I understood the need for releasing new editions like they did after TSW2 (Graphically, TSW2 out shone TSW2020, so that was alright), but they seem to have landed in an interesting spot with the TSW-concept and I guess they are trying to figure out their identity and what they want to do, still. How to go about.

    Oh, and btw, I'm on PS5. When I play TSW I'm flat in the couch on my 65 QLED screen, with the PS5 controller in my hand. That's me operating trains!
     
  12. Es4t

    Es4t Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2021
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Prior to DTG’s acquisition by Focus Entertainment they were a privately listed company afaik. Following the acquisition by Focus and its parent Pullup Entertainment SA, which describes itself as a company that comprises of 4 publishing structures and 8 development studios.
    Obviously as a publicly listed company with shareholders it has a duty to maximise profit and pay dividends. I guess the investors & accountants dictate ultimately how long projects remain in development before they want a return. Their latest financial outlook can be found here.
    https://cdn.focus-home.com/admin/in...023_12_14_presentation_resultats_s1_23_24.pdf
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. It sounds perfect! DTG are doing awesome work, and we would do well to sometimes remind ourselves of that, in the midst of our more emotional moments! They are sometimes stuck I think between the proverbial rock and hard place. They need to sustain their model but also please the source of the revenue stream (or at least not annoy it too much)..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
  14. kaarealmighty

    kaarealmighty Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    146
    I think DTG will maintain autonomy for much of how they create content. With this acquisition they've secured financing and can focus on creating even better content. Hence growing their audio department, sending people over to the US to record sounds etc. I doubt this leads to TSW becoming just another simulation. They clearly have a very solid edge for this niche, and I doubt they'll just throw it out the window like that. You can't get just anyone to play train simulation, it's not like Fortnight.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. I think you just smashed the nail on the head.. reputation and brand is so important in a niche market.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. kaarealmighty

    kaarealmighty Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    146
    This is why you guys are so important. Where I pointed out you guys being those bands, or boundaries within which DTG will listen to you. This is a great balance of things. As long as you do set certain boundaries, while also allowing DTG to "screw up" slightly to please/improve their wallet, I think TSW concept has a bright future ahead. In the 5 years now I haven't been dissapointed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. mikeW1015

    mikeW1015 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2024
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    77
    I think this was really well said, echoes my exact feelings with the game and reading the forum. I do understand why a group of players who strive for the most realistic product are voicing concern over things, and I also understand DTG position of it being completely impossible to make everyone happy at every single moment.

    Personally I feel bad that things such as the licensing issues have popped up twice this year both with very high profile releases in a timeframe that was almost the worst cases scenario for DTG. I also understand some of the complaints from the playing community (at least the forum community anyway). I do think issues like promised fixes being released a year later under a paywall is a touchy move that is hard to believe they don’t realize this will clearly be pointed out by a percentage of the community. Same goes for timetable. It would be hard for me to also believe that DTG does not already know that a lacking timetable for a major core release would not immediately be called out and quite loudly.

    with that said, we should be appreciative for what we do have; basically nobody offers anything close for the console player. I know routes have some glitches, errors etc. almost none of them have ruined any gameplay and enjoyment for me. I love driving, seeing the traffic on the routes and keeping my imaginary passengers happy! I’ve driven just above 50,000 sim miles in tsw4 with over 25000 (as of today) on NYC/Trenton. Most of that being after the new timetable was released. Are there a couple hiccups and the occasional stuck train, yes. Do I throw my controller against the wall, ask for a refund, cry and moan I’ll never spend another dollar on the game I truly enjoy, simple answer is NO!

    I do understand we want the most realistic game we can get, and the community does have the right to point out promised features not working, or being fixed in a timely manner. However, at the end of the day, I have yet to play a route that an issue took away from the enjoyment of my leather chair in the evening relaxing, clearing my mind and enjoying the TSW universe! I guess I’m thankful to have the opportunity to play something I have a passion for instead of shooting another terrorist with a rifle or trying to escape the military base without dying in a different funny way for the 900th time in GTA.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  18. warpshell

    warpshell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    1,668
    Anyways, back to the topic, what are the bets DTG will reply via forum, ignore or issue a carefully worded statement on this issue or issues?
     
    • Like Like x 8
  19. sam5166

    sam5166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2023
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    1,756
    Well I am not a train operator or a railfan. I just think the problem is that DTG don't do themselves any favors. They constantly overpromise on features and then underdeliver. Then there is the literal fact that this game has been advertised as a simulator featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world so it should hardly be suprising nor is it selfish for players to expect that. This game is not advertised as an arcade game. They set the expectations themselves.

    Had this game not been advertised the way it is, then people's exceptions would be different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 7
  20. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    3,001
    Why not both? There is betterhelp.com, just go the pub first and connect with there wifi.

    Problem solved.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2020
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    794
    Anyone who thinks DTG have an incredible reputation needs to give their head a wobble unfortunately. Route quality is patchy, and communication? Hit and miss. The more we hold them to account the better!
     
    • Like Like x 16
  22. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    3,001
    Well at least they previewed the most anticipated route first. At least there is a chance, albeit very small, that some issues can be corrected prior to release.

    Personally I doubt it but at least we have that 1% chance it may happen.

    Remember it was hope that took out the Galactic Empire. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. warpshell

    warpshell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    1,668
    Whatever you say OB1, but the sith lord is in charge of Focus, search your feeling, you it to be true. So your chances of DTG fixing things are slim.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  24. warpshell

    warpshell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    1,668
    Accountability is key when it comes to getting things fixed, otherwise DTG will not fix it or will put it on the long finger.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  25. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Thing is Focus is not going to have invested into DTG just to maintain status que, they are gonna want growth beyond what's currently going on eventually. For now I'm sure the scenario you're saying is playing out, where DTG's basically being left to do their own thing. But if in another few years Dovetail's games remain as is in terms of sales, or worse a decline happens it probably won't remain that way. Especially if Focus does start putting further investment into them with things like a dedicated US audio team like you suggest. They're not gonna be happy if those investments don't result in a growth spurt in a increase of player numbers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Siminzhou#2794

    Siminzhou#2794 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2023
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    303
    Another day passed, and DTG still haven't come up with a sincere explanation to the player. They just said some empty words like "working to understand if any improvements can be made prior to the release on September 17th", "would love to confirm a date for when you can expect these changes", "will keep you updated regularly". Yes, they promised the suspension improvements for 350, 377/2 and 72 stock. However, we don't know how long are we going to wait for these improvements, and they refused to talk about the biggest and most annoying issue: empty timetable, which upsetted many people.

    Community made mods can solve these issues, but it's DTG's responsibility to fix the messy made by themselves, poor nighttime lighting, wrong PIS displace, lack of suspension and empty timetable, all of these issue can and should be fixed by them.Their slience have already caused many people cancel pre-order, and if the upcoming German route has similar issues, it would be even more cancellation of pre-order. Prehaps DTG won't change until they spot the sharp drop of their product sales, but who know?
     
    • Like Like x 8
  27. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2020
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    4,102


    They don’t have to. DTG are always quiet on things like this unfortunately, in terms of the behind the scenes development, there really isn’t much transparency.

    it’s likely that WCML will probably get 2, maybe 3 updates in its lifetime. Even then, most of these issues will still exist. It’ll be the way it is unfortunately. Nothing we can do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. mkraehe#6051

    mkraehe#6051 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2022
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    2,275
    Another day of weekend.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  29. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2020
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    794
    It’ll be interesting to see what response we may or may not get this week. If we can see that elements of the game such as the lighting, and timetable maybe fixed for launch or at least given a solid date, many wouldn’t have cancelled preorders or still be on the fence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    19,251
    Likes Received:
    38,704
    It would be nice to see something beyond the bland and pointless platitudes Alex was no doubt instructed to post on Friday afternoon, by someone further up the food chain.

    I think the disappointment for me comes from the fact the people running this claim to be train and sim fans, in which case the red line for mediocrity should start and stop with their integrity.

    Just hoping that the German and California routes tick enough boxes to justify reinstating the Deluxe order and that someone in DTG Towers this morning will be collating the posts from the weekend, feeling a bit of empathy and kicking someone’s (or their own) backside to put extra polish on WCML.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  31. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    3,033
    I suspect DTG will already have resources committed to the next DLC and the WCML will be a let's hope it still sells anyway release which is the Rivet way so it seems.
     
  32. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    2,852
    Me too, before committing I want to hear that the 710 timetable in particular is fleshed out because the Overground is a big attraction to me. I've reached the stage now where I really see the Pendo as just an ai train so short is the route for it., I can drive it in TSC instead. As you say the lighting is also critical, maybe these are two things that can be tweaked without too much trouble, at the very least a promise to attend to these things after launch if necessary.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  33. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    11,733
    Regarding the lighting, sadly it’s not that simple.

    In my humble opinion DTG need to set a standard for the lighting setup that works in all seasons, weathers and times of day (the way lighting is baked and the way they set up materials and textures to interact with it) and once that’s done and working make that the bare minimum we see on any DLC going forward, either made by DTG themselves or by 3rd parties. Get it right once and for all then do it right all the time, no excuses. There is no reason at all, other than poor management, why this keeps happening. People have been rightly lauding JT’s Blackpool-Preston route (and it is wonderful) but that is far from perfect in this regard. DTG have to take the lead on this and sort it out for all developers, once and for all. In the screenshots for JT’s WCMLOS I’ve already seen the tell tale signs that the same issues will exist on that route too sadly.

    In addition to the lighting, it is utterly unacceptable, from the players point of view, that this complete mess with tunnel lighting is still the way it is. For the most part this has been this way since TSW3 was introduced except for the fact that some tunnels, on some routes, have it nailed. So they can do it, but again there is zero consistency as to whether or not it will be done right. Again, set up a workflow for tunnels, verify it works then make sure it is done that way 100% of the time. It really isn’t hard. One of Rivet’s trademarks is the complete inability to set-up tunnel lighting correctly yet here we are again, on the 7th iteration of the game and after 8 or 9 years of development, with the tunnels looking a mess. Imagine making a train simulator where you can’t even make tunnels look correct? It’s farcical. Put simply, if it doesn’t work or you can’t get it to work consistently then remove the feature until you can. Churning out route after route with broken tunnel lighting that will never ever get fixed is totally counterproductive.

    I don’t know what process DTG puts in place for this sort of thing, but even the most basic elements of management have you look for areas to improve, develop a way to make the improvement then set in stone processes to make sure the previous undesirable practices don’t re-occur. In my industry they’re called Standard Operating Procedures. It might not hurt the people responsible for this game’s development to maybe look into it a bit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2024
    • Like Like x 21
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  34. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    2,852
    Interesting. So we could have the crazy situation whereby DTG have to remaster a brand new route! It is farcical and we can't blame the publishers for it either.
     
  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    19,251
    Likes Received:
    38,704
    FTFY.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. pogodoyle#7387

    pogodoyle#7387 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2021
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    605
    Another way of looking at it (literally!) is to just not bother with the night time runs.

    I’ve played mebbe 10 in the entire time I’ve been on this game (TSW2 during the first lockdown). Night runs are way too dark and pointless. Complete waste of time IMHO. Nothing to see == no reason to play.

    This sort of darkness works well for Alien or Doom 3, but it’s just not real Birmingham, Glasgow, Manchester etc, so I ignore those runs.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  37. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    11,733
    Again, night time lighting in this game is in a better state than the day time setup. At least it’s consistent.

    The biggest issue is that they are clearly running out of time and are sacrificing placing actual lights which are what make the night time scene look correct. Fife Circle is a good example of this. Bits of it are actually good, but then chunks of it are missing any sort of lighting at all (Haymarket Yard, Murrayfield Stadium, the Forth Road Bridge and the section by the caravan parks being examples that come straight to mind). Back in TSW2 days this game relied largely on a reflective material on the building windows to fake lights (albeit really poorly). Often that is the only light source at night (which doesn’t actually emit light) so it looks so pitch black. Absolutely bloody awful, frankly.

    I stand by what I said in a previous post however…generally DTG are much improved in this regard. I’m not talking early TSW3 routes, but certainly the TSW4 standard has been a step up with many many more light sources being placed at night. Don’t believe me? Drive Maintalbahn at night with a touch of fog. It’s every bit as good as Dresden was. Without stating the obvious, the reason Dresden-Riesa was lauded as the new standard was because it actually had lights placed along the route. The world is lit at night, if it isn’t lit in game it’s going to look trash. A simple equation to solve.

    From what I’ve seen in the editor though the current way this is setup is that you have to place every single light, every single street lamp, every yard light, every billboard or building illumination etc on a whole route one by one. No wonder it takes a lot of time!! Again, I find it really strange that there has seemingly been no development in this area in the last 8 or 9 years (based on what you can see in the public editor). Yes it might take a bit of time to develop road or pavement assets to automatically have street lamps placed on it etc but it would payback 1000 times over when done, surely?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2024
    • Like Like x 18
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  38. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,687
    Likes Received:
    3,467
    If there was only a switch to remove those from journey mode I would be so satisfied and finally be able to complete all my journeys
     
    • Like Like x 4
  39. pogodoyle#7387

    pogodoyle#7387 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2021
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    605
    :D:D:D

    Obviously I wasn’t saying that was a solution :D:D:D It’s just MY way of dealing with it - ignore the bit that’s utterly rubbish and enjoy the rest of it. Wasn’t for 1 second suggesting it was acceptable to anyone else, or implying everyone else should just ignore the night runs. Personally I ignore the night runs because they are just utter rubbish. :D:D:D
     
    • Like Like x 3
  40. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    11,733
    Sorry, I wasn’t replying to you. I’ll edit my post to make that clear.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  41. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    11,733
    Yeah, you’re right, that’s solution. Make the game daytime only. Much easier than bothering to create a workable night scene.

    If there was a rolling eye emoji it would be placed here.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  42. pogodoyle#7387

    pogodoyle#7387 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2021
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    605
    Got me thinking about firing up the Editor to see if I can slap some lighting in … hmmm …. yeah, why not … if I get anywhere I’ll post a screenshot… wish me luck :D:D:D

    ---------

    Half an hour later, fortified with coffee and toast... I'm clearly being naive here... there goes the rest of the day :o
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2024
    • Like Like x 3
  43. NorthLondoner125

    NorthLondoner125 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2023
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    347
    It's called cashing grab from the players. We are past the days DTG and TSW were for the players by taking there time to produce good content until now everything's on marketing and quantity over quality. Whether they are half-baked or not, the upper executives have there shareholders to pay. Our only hope is to rely on third part developers as Just Trains (Forget River, I'm sure most of us here know why, *cough *cough)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    19,251
    Likes Received:
    38,704
    Night time driving done properly can be quite entrancing and entertaining. Look no further than the truck sims. Even Run 8 on its old custom graphics generally does night time better than TSW. Out in the desert, you can just see the hills and mountains silhouetted against the not quite black sky.

    There really does seem to be a disparity between the choice of UE for TSW and employing programming and modelling gurus who can get the best from it.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  45. Jetwash, you can probably answer this- how much of a performance impact, if any, would sorting the lighting out have? Is it possible that its regarded as low hanging fruit for milking performance?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    11,733
    The lighting as it is is just a set of variables that, as far as I’m aware, can be changed for zero performance impact. The same goes for materials (a good example of materials being set up incorrectly is that sometimes you will see certain surfaces inside the train cab reflecting sunlight that isn’t visible in the rest of the interior. Those same materials flash blue when going in and out of the tunnels because they’re reflecting light they shouldn’t be reflecting). The randomly lit carriages in the WCMLS stream are almost certainly a combination of incorrectly set up materials and the lighting inside Euston being inconsistently set up. Don’t get me wrong though, UE4 lighting is a minefield, which is why they need to figure out a setup that works (including how the world looks from inside the locomotive itself) then ruthlessly apply it 100% of the time across all developers. 3rd parties should only be allowed to deviate from that standard if they can demonstrate what they’re doing is an improvement on the baseline standard.

    Performance degradation comes from reducing pop-in, increasing shadow draw etc but the lighting variables themselves have no material impact on performance. It’s the reason the ‘low’ setting on my lighting mod only contains lighting changes because those alone have zero impact on the games performance.

    One other thing I forgot to mention above is that the time of day system in this game is totally broken. I don’t know if that is UE4 or it’s simply not been set up right (I’d guess the latter) but it gets dark and light at incorrect times of day and doesn’t take geography into account. A good example is in Scotland, in the summer, the sky will stay light until well after 2200. In TSW it is pitch black at about 2000. Conversely, in Winter it doesn’t get light in Scotland until way later than it does in England. The game takes no account of that at all. This again is something that is not difficult to implement in game (Armstrong Powerhouse did it with their Sky enhancements for TSC because it was broken by default there too) and would go a long way to making the game far more enjoyable and realistic. It seems to get dark and light in the USA at the same times of day as in Britain, which is obviously wrong too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2024
    • Like Like x 12
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  47. trlz#8165

    trlz#8165 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2023
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    455
    I
    I also hate playing night runs and scenarios in TSW ..a question i would ask to any RR employees or those who worked for RR in past is the night lighting that bad in real life .. I know they carry lantern s at night or most rail facilities have decent lighting ..other wise when ive tried playing night runs in past im thinking how do RR employees stand working at night even the train headights in TSW dim cant see much at all ...as for the over bright daytime lighting on sunny days in TSW I just set cloud cover to heavy with the in game slider makes a lot better .
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    I've found by experimentation that there appear to be at least two different, both wrong, time of day system used. Most of the UK routes appear to use a ToD system that runs 1 hour 'ahead' in summer (sun goes down too early), and most of the recent German routes (at least Niddertalbahn and Bremen from memory) run 2 hours 'ahead'. LIRR2 is also afflicted with the latter.

    You would have thought that it can't be that hard to get this right, including an adjustment for Summer Time for those countries that use it?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  49. Thanks, great answer, and I appreciate the depth and explanation of it. I hope (but have low expectation of) that DTG can at least learn from these missteps that mar an otherwise genre leading product.
     
    • Like Like x 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page