Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Think it also makes the decision not to layer into Birmingham NS & Manchester even worse, both commercially and player wise.

As it stands I’m not buying TSW5. The standard of the route should have been in keeping with Goblin and its very much lower, combined with the unbranded trains & stations it doesn’t have any appeal for me.

Had they layered in to make New Street and Piccadilly more realistic I’d possibly have taken the plunge.

 

I would say this. I don’t have any formal training in this sort of thing, everything I’ve learnt is from reading literature on UE4 then trying to put it into practice (within the confines of altering things outside of the editor) and I think it’s fair to say that’s the same for many of the people that mod this game. I enjoy DTG’s train sims but I got to the point that I just couldn’t enjoy it with the inconsistent state of the visuals anymore.

It is very clear to me though that I’m not the only person who feels this way. The two mods that have largely sat undisturbed at the top of the TSW list on TSC relate to a lighting and graphics mod that attempts to bring more fidelity to the graphics, and a mod that fixes, as far as is possible though hex editing, incorrectly and inconsistently (that word again) set up lights on the locos and train units. As much a surprise to me as anyone else those two mods have been downloaded a combined 91,257 times since TSW4 came out and I believe that speaks volumes.

I don’t think it’s coincidence. People want to see this side of the game improve yet DTG, who claim to listen to our feedback, are completely ignoring it. Set a high standard and apply it consistently, that’s all many of us are asking for. The sad thing is we’re sat here roughly two weeks before the 7th iteration of the game releases and these same old problems are not only there, but as bad as they’ve ever been. Not only that but again there is no sign of many of the graphical benefits that are not only built in to UE4, but utilised as standard in virtually all new games.

 

I think DTG listen to their customers/players feedback and they act accordingly, so long as it suits DTG's agenda. For example some players ask for a short route, so DTG will produce a short route, but if players ask for a longer route it does not suit or DTG are not willing to do it due to cost or time. As the saying goes you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time, but this doesn't excuse DTG from producing a poor TSW or route.

 

It seems DTG have simply lost the will to improve the core (okay after 8 years they finally updated the map). TSW in 2024 has apparently become a money spinner by constantly churning out at times unfinished and unpolished content with regular cadence, secure in the knowledge that despite the forums bemoaning the state of the game, a solid, less demanding player base will buy whatever they make. It makes me sad that TSW will never reach its true potential, nevertheless I do still enjoy the game warts and all.

 

Without the mods that are available on TSC I would not be playing TSW at all.
The constant problems that have plagued the console versions are absurd. I have both the gen 9 consoles but I’ll be damned if I ever play TSW on them! Unfortunately, PC is the only real way to enjoy the game and I am very thankful for each and every mod that creates those patches. Keep up the good work!

 

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I should at least summarise my thoughts:

• The trains themselves seem good, although the sounds could use some fine tuning, I don't think they sound bad.
• I am annoyed that my question about TASS was ignored twice, I would have liked to see it in action.
• It would be nice to see some more passengers along the route, particularly at Euston.
• The lighting definitely needs looking at, although, as others have stated this seems to be a constant problem. To be honest, I don't think the night lighting around Euston looks bad, but as you move away from Euston it just looks too dark.
• My biggest problem is with the timetable, the 710 table with its 90 minute gaps is just weird. The 350 timetable is better, but it still seems a little quiet. The main reason I didn't mind the shorter route was that I hoped for a complex timetable.

Overall, will I buy the deluxe edition? If the other routes are good and at least some progress is made with these problems by the 17th then probably yes.

 

I fully appreciate that DTG is not going to please me or anybody else all of the time. Route length, train branding, etc don’t bother me as much as things that shouldn’t be recurring in version 5 of the game. Dumbing down the timetable (unless this is proven to destroy performance) is one unacceptable issue. We’ve been told on livestreams in the past that the number of services don’t impact performance, rather the number of different train models on a route, so I can never understand it when DTG does not make full use of the timetable(s) for each and every route.

 

Quite a coincidence, players asked for London to Peterborough, they chose Peterborough to Doncaster instead. They also asked for the North London Line, instead again we got the Goblin Line. Though I'll kind of let of the Goblin Line slightly being it's a fairly decent route.

 

It will be dev time setting up and testing the timetable.

 

I, I, I asked for Posh to Donny (Ok, York). I, um, also didn't ask for North London line.

 

I would've preferred the north london line Or even better a combination of the goblin and north London line which is available in TSC. There were many requests for the North London line

 

The silence from DTG continues. Even a "yeah we dropped the ball on this one" would be better than allowing the boil to fester like this. It would have potentially been an exercise in damage limitation but again one gets the impression of fingers being stuck in ears etc. Maybe engagement with the community only occurs when there's a potential sale to be made, but otherwise the mentality is that the community can go screw itself..
Who knows, but that's how it looks to me..

 

It will be dev time, but surely they should be allocating enough dev time to do the timetables justice - otherwise the routes just look empty.

 

I'd love to see what UK routes have been most requested.
I'll guess at the top ten (excluding released and upcoming routes)

ECML South, GEML South, South East London network to link up to Dartford, Riviera Line, Merseyrail, ECML Newcastle to Edinburgh, Birmingham to Liverpool, North London Line, C2C, Metropolitan Line.

 

Merseyrail has definitely been requested several times and I would love to see this in TSW, all lines, which will be a big ask, but it would be super cool.

 

We got the Goblin because Matt lived at Leytonstone back in the day. I’ll be clear I do think that Goblin is one of the best looking routes out there but with its limited run why did they chose it other than the statement I started this comment off with!

 

I think it is wise to wait until we get review streams from Ambassadors until we make up our minds about night lighting. Agreed it’s not ideal but I did notice a big difference between the picture on the TV (which I was watching as the main screen) and the iPad screen which I had in front of me for comments. The lighting on the iPad screen appeared clearer and brighter. Maybe that’s just my experience but I think it is worth waiting for an unbiased review.

 

Back to the subject of night lighting. It's pretty clear that DTG do not consider this issue to be important enough to invest the development time necessary to solve it.

Maybe their market analysts tell them it's not a big issue with most players, I don't know. But I'm another player who avoids driving after dark.

So instead of dealing with core issues like lighting, save game etc., we get gimmicky features like eye adaptation, hopping and bouncy-castle suspension.

We know that they can get night lighting at least half right. In fact they got it right in the very first route, SPG, presumably because they took the time necessary.

They need to get night lighting consistently correct, so that we can all enjoy the pleasures of driving 24/7.

 

Without wanting to sound like a broken record, the night lighting is the night lighting and is the same on EVERY ToDv4 route in the game. The difference again is whether or not the developers (Rivet) have gone through and added more lights to the route since the stream. It is the actual lights that are missing and I would put money on the answer to that question being no.

Either way, the actual lighting of the moon, stars, sky etc will not change.

 

The British Ace is one of the only streams I watch to get a fair and honest opinion on the route. Most of the time his feelings are on the same wave length as mine so anything he says I'll take on board. I wonder when the ambassadors will release review videos?

 

You'll be waiting a long time for an unbiased review from some of the ambassadors...

 

I avoid all ambassador content.

They’re effectively DTG employees and aren’t going to be excessively negative or bite the hand that feeds them.

Unfortunately, given the sheer number of DTG Ambassadors, it’s often difficult to find someone on YouTube who isn’t one, or someone hoping to be one.

 

Honestly feel bad for the community managers caught up in this mess. They are only the messengers in this situation, and are only trying to help.

 

DadRail for me is pretty critical when it warrants. What happened to LazerJet? Sure he was an ambassador but haven't seen him doing videos for them recently.

 

DTG have seen the complaints and have acknowledged them. I think expecting a more in-depth reply two working days later is probably a false expectation.

Personally I will exercise patience and see what happens over the next week.

I also agree that you often get a different perspective on some of the ambassador streams. The DTG ones can be a bit chaotic some times, although I didn't feel this one was particularly.

 

I agree here, they're in a very difficult situation having to effectively be the bridge between the company and the customers.

 

I always get the feeling there are too many community managers at the moment. I liked it when DTG Protagonist was running the forums.

 

DTG Protagonist was definitely a no nonsense community manager, he really got the answers out there and cared a lot about the community (not saying the current ones are awful, they are amazing)

such a shame DTG Protagonist left, really liked him

 

Sam is too busy being the colonel of the Fail Brigade, living his best life away from this chaos.........

 

Totally agree with you. All the necessary criticism is there and out in the open now. I'm willing to give DTG time and am confident the feedback will be reasonably productive in fixes.

I think the next step as mentioned is to watch the ambassador streams and see what builds they are given in comparison to the one in DTGs preview.

 

Im happy the night are finally darker than in spg. But nightlighting involves the placing of light sources. Very well done in the rush hour route riesa - dresden, which has dark nights too but well lighted areas. No other route caught this in the same detail ever again!

So the excuse (again) is there was just not enough time? Clearly..., the route is not even released and players are already annoyed.

 

That's not entirely true. I thought Lee (CGD games) conducted his expert loco preview incredibly well....even going as far as to say that if he hadn't gotten it for free then he wouldn't have purchased it because it was overpriced for what it was. More of a 'great to be an ambassador but not the end of the world if I'm not' approach than a 'protect my ambassador status at all costs' attitude that some streamers (especially those with lower subscription counts and high volumes of TSW content) adopt, so if that's not 'for the people' then I really don't know what is!

I don't particularly like ambassadors either (I feel they generally cause more harm towards the consumer than good) but in saying that, there are still unbiased/negative opinions from them out there so even I would consider it a little too harsh to tar them all with the same brush.

 

Yeah, I will just sit in the corner on my PS5 and cry. TSW 4 on console is a joke, I can't see TSW 5 being any different, the number has changed is about as much.

 

Everybody is awaiting or expecting a reply from DTG on this matter. DTG are listening and rest assured they will respond. The response will be better put together than TSW itself, what we actually need at this point is action not lip service, we get plenty of lip service.

 

1,2,3,5,7,8,9,10 and 14.
Quite the strike rate DTG..

Why're you failing at customer service solutions (Top Mistakes) (znetlive.com)

 

I think you are right which is sad, we're just client reference numbers.

 

It’s crazy how rivet Fife circle is so bad and with the enhancement pack and fawx’s timetable it becomes one of the most enjoyable routes to play. If modders with less resources and experience than actual devs can produce that quality of work then what is DTGs excuse?

 

They're a business. Time = money.

But there's only so far they can go with that excuse before it starts to wear thin.

 

One of the biggest gripes in here are the missing services (which may appear yet!), but people are wanting more timetables creating for other routes - which would require more dev time and beta testing.
No doubt they will update Birmingham & Manchester at some point - hopefully when either some new stock yet is announced, or some reskinned existing stock - as we have 142, 150, 158, 170 and 800/801 all in game , but lets enjoy the WCML with the 390 first and see what happens in the future.

 

100% agree. a couple of months ago I mentioned in a separate thread about my dislike of the Ambassadors…and guess what I got shot down in flames lol…..but it looks like Im not alone in my dislike of them!

 

There are and not one single one of them can be bothered to reply. I have no doubt that they read these threads but the silence from all of them says volume about DTG not caring one bit!

 

Same here. I dont sub or watch any of them!

 

If you look closely you'll find the budget limitations leading to rushed work everywhere. Not just Rivet.

DTG - Antelope Valley

These "neighbourhoods on a plate" prefabs are just...


Compared to the looks and detail of DTG's 70 miles Miami - West Palm Beach (2014) for TSC, you can only come to the conclusion that development costs for a train sim must have risen immensely. Stuff that was possible ten years ago isn't economically viable any more.




That route is just an example of a level of detail that still holds up to my needs, and a reason why TSW is not an upgraded TSC. In fact - TSW is often less detailed, in the hope that UE's lighting will do the magic. And remember the rendering engine and dev tools were self developed by Kuju, not licensed IP like Unreal.

 

Some TSC routes definitely age well. And compete with some of TSWs best sometimes

 

Wow, that is good, how old is that?

 

That has just gone on my Wishlist!
Absolutely stunning.

 

I definitely agree with that, the routes from the last few years in TSC have been outstanding, and there is always so much detail and ai traffic too..

 

Loving this forum. everyone is so mature and brutally honest! Constructive Feedback and Criticism we are giving. We ain't being Ass*oles at all.
We are giving this feedback and that because we love this game so much. When you love a game so much and the Devs start lowering standards is when it gets disheartening as their is no other game like this on Console or PC (exclude TSC) that gives us this much immersion!
We just want the best, DLC's and TSW games released without stupid amount of bugs, but when it is constant bugs and also shortcuts that we can surely see is just disgusting, as I keep saying 5th series of TSW should be aiming much more higher not lower.
Want to say again, really happy getting WCML south with 390 and 350. I understand why to MK but at the same time very disappointed with it only being 50 miles. It is actually 49.65 miles. (sorry had to point it out)
It should of been to Rugby tbh but New Street I feel like it is doable, you see JT doing 100 miles route why can't DTG.
I would of accepted Rugby I be honest, 30/40 min run with a 390 just is annoying.
I just god hope the preview stream was an early build. Otherwise, well basically TSW 4 release all over again, having to wait ages for patches and that.
Suspension
So with suspension, I would of rather if DTG apologise and just explain that some suspensions for trains have been very difficult to do with the physics and therefore having to delay it, rather than giving fake promises or false deadlines. Us as a Community deserve that communication.
Route size
Now I did see someone mention route size that those who ask for shorter routes, get shorter routes. But me myself and others who ask for longer routes. Nope we don't get that do we?
I find it absolutely pathetic that this is the case. WCML Euston to New Street would of had everyone hopping out their seats. In my honest opinion we really should of got that. 5th series why not! MIND BLOW THE COMMUNITY. But no, we have to have a 50 mile commuter route. Honestly, It is so annoying that us players who love the game and want to play a route you can sit on all day such as EUS-BNS, but we can't.

 

I think this is one of the best posts i've read on here.

 

great post!
you wrote all my thoughts in 1 little article

 

Just for those saying night lighting in this game always looks rubbish, I’d implore you to drive a night service in Maintalbahn and using GodMode set the volumetric fog to about 0.003 or 0.004 and about 25% on the cloud slider. This is how the game should look at night all the time, every time.

The service I just tested was the RB 88 (23300) Miltenberg to Aschaffenburg starting at 04:38 on 27th September. I chose this as it transitions from night to dawn light throughout the service, if you don’t wish it to do this run it in October or November instead.

This is a perfect illustration of my point about consistency. It can’t be acceptable that on the one hand a route can look like this, but then for the TSW5 launch we get a route that looks like the worst example of lighting the game has ever seen.