Wcml South - Not Good Enough

You go to McDonalds, it has a certain standard, they are done though a franchise system and certain levels have to be met or kept to hold on to the franchise. DTG need to bite bullet and fix what is wrong in the game either by working on the core or rebuilding a new game, a good time to use unreal 5.3 or whatever. Fixing bugs doesnt make money, but it stops DTG losing money because they do not have to spend as much time on fixes, but it doesn't give them money now and now is probably important, but they shouldn't be doing it at the cost of the player base by offering a dodgy product, people will only put up with that for so long and DTG can only bla bla bla for so long before people stop believing them.

 

Ask them on the TSC forum how well they like that solution.
They're convinced that TSC will soon cease to exist because it's been "abandoned by DTG"
=-)

 

You can exclude Rivet Games from that idea.... Letting them touch anything only creates more problems.

 

Biggest beef is not the scenery rather the lighting which returns London to the blitz, the 710 timetable of one service every 90 minutes instead of 15 and the 350 lacking 8 car trains. I'd call the scenery cherry picking!

 

TSC is doing better without DTG!

 

Yes I forgot to mention that - have them fixing their own bugs instead, should keep them quiet for 10 years. Though to be fair their trains aren't too bad.

 

Well at least everyone can make and sell content for TSC, as the tools are available for everyone. Unlike TSW, where the Public Editor is a stripped down version, and you need to sign a contract with DTG to get access to the full tools, support, and being able to export your route into the game.

If trainsimcz hadn't given the community the option to cook files, we'd have no custom timetables or scenery enhancements, and be victim of DTG's gatekeeping.

 

In all fairness as I said earlier past Wembley the scenery really improves massively. It’s a shame DTG just copied and pasted BKL

 

Mmmmmmm are we sure?

 

Yeah, copy and paste saves money, but does nothing for the product.

 

Anyone hoping DTG even gives a response on this before release needs to give their head a wobble. Alex's post was merely to try to calm people down. I doubt we'll even see suspension on the 350 before the new year.

More than happy to eat my words, and in a way, I kind of hope I do.

 

DTG will only give a well edited, well timed measured strategic response that is to their advantage and not the players. DTG will only pedal positive stuff about their product and will gloss over any short cummings.

 

Just don't use the "Light Clouds" (40%) preset. Stay below it. Lighting is worst between 40% and 50% cloud cover in daytime.

When choosing dynamic weather, the Light Clouds preset will default to 33% clouds initially, which is better.

 

Agreed. I think the reason why most of the 350 services are 4 cars is because they only made the 350/1, of which there are 30 units, so they might potentially have to duplicate numbers to have all the trains as 8 coaches. They should have made the 350/2 as well.

 

I honestly think the decision to not have all 4 variants for such a busy route is quite pathetic.

 

Holy LOVE the amount of entitlement here is amazing.
99% of people wouldn't even NOTICE if all the 350 sets were the same number of cars.
Obsessing over the inconsequential....
If there were no 350 at all.. or it didn't move... or if it were missing doors... THOSE would be "pathetic."
Simply whining about the car counts?
Yeah that would go under the heading of "pathetic."

 

Right, okay calm down 'operator'
Right I don't have a problem if they are to duplicate and that and just use /2/3/4 as same variant wouldn't bother me but I hope 8 car services are included

 

Well you have a problem.
But is it actually a problem?
Let's be kind and call it "exaggerating" on your part a WEE bit.

 

Yea probably is mate.

 

As a point of interest, DTG have never said that this route was developed and built by Rivet (though it seems to be acknowledged that they had a part to play) so we have to blame DTG for the shortcomings of the route and comparisons to the high quality of the Goblin Line, rather than the less than acceptable Fife Circle, are completely justified.

 

That’s two points

 

Just want to say, reflecting after ages of all of us bashing WCML out. Are we being too brutal. I just want to cut it down.
Again, I am very grateful that WCML South is coming to TSW, my most requested and loved route with the 390 and 350 being my Fav 2 trains.
My Grudges;
Distance. I understand why, mainly focused for the 350 but why not for 390 as well? I would of accepted Rugby. Milton Keynes still very good. We get depot and lots more. What will make me forget the distance is the immersion of the route, being able to Get off at MK from a 390 and then hop onto a 350 or another 390 or just watch trains flashing by. Goes same with 710 and the UNderground. So many services and should be no gaps at all!
If rivet are to be involved. I just 'hope' they have done a good job but I just don't see why DTG would do that!
But overall I am very excited to drive this route on Thursday 12th! Shame I don't get all my content till 17th but Oh well as I am on PS5!

 

To put it simply, it isn't realistic. Most 350 services on the WCML operate 8 cars at least. Maybe a very few 12 cars, though I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Any word from DTG yet on whether all this is being heard?

 

Nothing at all i’m afraid

 

Thanks Matthew. Been away from the devices for 24hrs.. trying to catch up and was hoping there'd been some good news. Appreciate the response.

 

I can confirm all this is being heard, I can also confirm that DTG are chosing not to respond at this time. I think DTG are hoping to do another stream on Thursday, hoping players forget the condition of WCML.

 

The Rivet link is more intrinsic than many may well realise-they were formed of a core of ex-Dovetail employees from when DTG were based in/had an office in Scotland!

 

All but one of the 350 services from Euston are 8 Cars. There is one single 12 car that is formed by the one single 4 car coupling with an 8 car. Yet in the TT it's only 4 cars lol.

 

So, having been checking back on this forum extensively for the last 3 days, I’ve decided for now to cancel my preorder and await release to see the state of things on ambassador uploads. It’s a crying shame that DTG have shown no real promise of updating the series, it feels like they’re pulling a FIFA with these titles now.

If you too have cancelled your preorder based on the utterly ridiculous preview stream and seeing the shoddiness of DTG’s performance, you’re not alone!

I will end up with the game eventually, but only if the glaringly obvious faults are rectified!

 

Where do we draw the line on what actually is a problem though? If we draw the line at what 99% of people wouldn't notice then DTG could probably also stop caring about realistic sounds and train physics. 99% of people wouldn't notice right? See, it's stupid logic and defeats the whole idea of TSW being a "train sim". It's not entitlement. The basics are not enough for players that want a true simulation experience, not just a working game.

 

This!
Basically, all we’d like as players is a close representation of the real thing. A few minor differences can slide, but we’d actually like if Dovetail did their route research properly and made their ‘flagship’ route the best it can be, not mediocre at best.

 

By now, you'd think DTG would've stormed this thread to quote responses and do a little damage control, yet there has been nothing. It is starting to look like last week's preview stream will be a direct reflection of how WCMLS will launch for early access. (if it wasn't obvious already)

I guess they truly don't mind a large chunk of us speed-running to cancel our preorders, but then again if their form of damage control is just reaffirming our doubts I'm sure that will only expedite said pre-order cancelling lol

 

With the default lighting I’d agree, but with my ini setup it’s fine. In fact probably one of my most used setups to be honest.

 

They first need to assess the complaints, see what can be promised and what can't be promised. They just can't storm in and promise stuff. These things take time.

 

Currently TSC is better in my book the money i would have spent on TSW 5 is going to purchase TSC content ..i havent touched tsw 4 since may ..i have no enthusiasm for TSW 5 not even free upgrade ..

 

Your statement makes me smile a little.

DTG has been promising things for a long time that they cannot (or do not want to?) keep.

The best and most recent example is the "suspension update", which was first promised with TSW4 and then definitely with TSW5, no, officially announced. And now we have once again noticed that the new suspension will not be fully implemented.

 

A lot of players on here are expecting an immediate responce from DTG, but we already got a blanket statement from Alex on the subject where he thanked everyone for their feedback and basically confirm using the word "if" we can do something before launch we will. Read into that what you will? What people also need to keep in mind is that you are giving feedback on a forum hoping that you get the attention of an individual who you have in your mind or just someone from the company in general, but DTG is a company and they will respond like a company, they will have meetings about the problems raised on the forum, they will be looking into solutions they can report back with, if there is no solution at this time, does it do any good to reply with a we do not know or we have no fix at this time, probably not? DTG will also be going deeply into when is the best time to reply this close to a product launch, players might be hoping Alex or Matt or Daisy or whoever would bounce in with another reply, but they work for a company and they will probably be told to sit on their hands as part of the company's tactical measured responce, it is not an individual you are writting to as such unless you address it to that individual and even then the company part will be a factor. Don't think DTG aren't listening, they are very much so, but read between the lines, they do not have a solution at the moment or nothing before launch as Alex pretty much confirmed because if DTG did they would be on here telling us about it, so the fact DTG are not telling you anything is also telling something, they are probably working on it in the background. I have brought minor things up about TSW on the forum and I think it was Matt covered them on a live stream, so DTG are listening, it makes very good business sence to listen to your customers (that's us by the way)

 

TSC is actually getting regular US freight content ..with recently released Alco C424 s and Bozeman Pass route annouced its set in late Northern Pacific. Burlington Northern. eras with a EMD FT loco and BN GP30 shown so far ...TSW has no new US freight since TSW 3 and nothing freight wise seems to be coming anytime.soon for TSW

 

Did trlz#8165 just reply to trlz#8165....Errrr you can talk to others on the forum you know?

 

It’s pretty clear to me that early access isn’t going to be worth the outlay this time round. I paid for it last year and didn’t regret it, but this year I’m not so sure. Hardly a problem from DTG’s point of view, I guess they’ll get my money eventually when I read enough good things or see people play through it on YouTube. I guess the only fly in the ointment for them might be the pre-order and release day stats if enough people are feeling similarly leery about this release. Release day stats aren’t that important.

 

I'll be as vocal as others if they don't respond at all about the issues raised, however I feel we should give them some space to do so before jumping in feet first saying they aren't listening.

 

This is creeping towards the enough is enough thread. Keep it going guys.

 

There has to go a lot wrong before I will not preorder. I'm going for early access as the forum is difficult to read on the quality of a product. Most of the times the complaints are about things I will not notice. Even worse I will notice them because I read about it in complaints. People in early access will probably love it and will make me facepalm I will have to pay full price as I did not pre order and the FOMO will not make me wait until the first sales.

So for me it will be pre order and avoid the forums until I made my own impression of the game. Worst that can happen is that I end up in the Enough is Enough topic as a daily poster

 

Well, let me put it this way: out of three "standard routes" of a new TSW part, not all three were always equally good.

The American and especially German content can still make up for it and will then be my decision as to whether I pre-order BEFORE the release or not. I can always wait and buy later.

A pre-order is always a matter of trust that it will be good. I have become cautious after 4 issues of TSW, unfortunately.

I also have the feeling that they are waiting to preview the German track until shortly before the release and are only showing us the American track live beforehand.

 

We look forward to welcoming you into the Enough is Enough topic in about a week or so

 

Is there any thread left on this forum, where people don´t show up and start complaining about the lack of US freight in the game? It´s getting a bit spam like at this point.
I understand the frustration, but can´t we concentrate this to a single place? "enough is enough US freight edition" or something like that?

 

I talk to myself in real life, so this made me giggle..love the meme above too! The post above that also. Nice to see a bit of humour flying around today

 

What I personally want to see is DTG take accountability and give an update with a bullet pointed list of what they are looking at fixing on the WCML to correct the numerous problems pointed out. I honestly don't care about suspension and I'm glad they're adding a toggle to remove it, but the lighting, missing OHLE, lack of possible 350s to have realistic consists, the Watford DC timetable being barebones and the scenery all need a clear roadmap on when we can expect them to be rectified. I was planning on pre-ordering when I first saw that the WCML would be one of the routes but everything wrong with the route has made me keep my £53, and I really believe the only way DTG would listen to feedback is mass pre-order refunds.

 

It would be nice and I certainly agree with you. Unfortunately there is also a significant Say-Do gap historically when it comes to DTG and so now those like me who have been around for a while know that functionality at the point of delivery is the only measuring stick that can be counted upon these days. Suspension is one prominent example which, if I'm correct, was stated as being present on all TSW5 trains going forward, isnt, and only made an appearance towards the end of TSW4s lifecycle.

As a result, anything DTG promise will need to be seen to be believed.