Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I can confirm all this is being heard, I can also confirm that DTG are chosing not to respond at this time. I think DTG are hoping to do another stream on Thursday, hoping players forget the condition of WCML.

 

The Rivet link is more intrinsic than many may well realise-they were formed of a core of ex-Dovetail employees from when DTG were based in/had an office in Scotland!

 

All but one of the 350 services from Euston are 8 Cars. There is one single 12 car that is formed by the one single 4 car coupling with an 8 car. Yet in the TT it's only 4 cars lol.

 

So, having been checking back on this forum extensively for the last 3 days, I’ve decided for now to cancel my preorder and await release to see the state of things on ambassador uploads. It’s a crying shame that DTG have shown no real promise of updating the series, it feels like they’re pulling a FIFA with these titles now.

If you too have cancelled your preorder based on the utterly ridiculous preview stream and seeing the shoddiness of DTG’s performance, you’re not alone!

I will end up with the game eventually, but only if the glaringly obvious faults are rectified!

 

Where do we draw the line on what actually is a problem though? If we draw the line at what 99% of people wouldn't notice then DTG could probably also stop caring about realistic sounds and train physics. 99% of people wouldn't notice right? See, it's stupid logic and defeats the whole idea of TSW being a "train sim". It's not entitlement. The basics are not enough for players that want a true simulation experience, not just a working game.

 

This!
Basically, all we’d like as players is a close representation of the real thing. A few minor differences can slide, but we’d actually like if Dovetail did their route research properly and made their ‘flagship’ route the best it can be, not mediocre at best.

 

By now, you'd think DTG would've stormed this thread to quote responses and do a little damage control, yet there has been nothing. It is starting to look like last week's preview stream will be a direct reflection of how WCMLS will launch for early access. (if it wasn't obvious already)

I guess they truly don't mind a large chunk of us speed-running to cancel our preorders, but then again if their form of damage control is just reaffirming our doubts I'm sure that will only expedite said pre-order cancelling lol

 

With the default lighting I’d agree, but with my ini setup it’s fine. In fact probably one of my most used setups to be honest.

 

They first need to assess the complaints, see what can be promised and what can't be promised. They just can't storm in and promise stuff. These things take time.

 

Currently TSC is better in my book the money i would have spent on TSW 5 is going to purchase TSC content ..i havent touched tsw 4 since may ..i have no enthusiasm for TSW 5 not even free upgrade ..

 

Your statement makes me smile a little.

DTG has been promising things for a long time that they cannot (or do not want to?) keep.

The best and most recent example is the "suspension update", which was first promised with TSW4 and then definitely with TSW5, no, officially announced. And now we have once again noticed that the new suspension will not be fully implemented.

 

A lot of players on here are expecting an immediate responce from DTG, but we already got a blanket statement from Alex on the subject where he thanked everyone for their feedback and basically confirm using the word "if" we can do something before launch we will. Read into that what you will? What people also need to keep in mind is that you are giving feedback on a forum hoping that you get the attention of an individual who you have in your mind or just someone from the company in general, but DTG is a company and they will respond like a company, they will have meetings about the problems raised on the forum, they will be looking into solutions they can report back with, if there is no solution at this time, does it do any good to reply with a we do not know or we have no fix at this time, probably not? DTG will also be going deeply into when is the best time to reply this close to a product launch, players might be hoping Alex or Matt or Daisy or whoever would bounce in with another reply, but they work for a company and they will probably be told to sit on their hands as part of the company's tactical measured responce, it is not an individual you are writting to as such unless you address it to that individual and even then the company part will be a factor. Don't think DTG aren't listening, they are very much so, but read between the lines, they do not have a solution at the moment or nothing before launch as Alex pretty much confirmed because if DTG did they would be on here telling us about it, so the fact DTG are not telling you anything is also telling something, they are probably working on it in the background. I have brought minor things up about TSW on the forum and I think it was Matt covered them on a live stream, so DTG are listening, it makes very good business sence to listen to your customers (that's us by the way)

 

TSC is actually getting regular US freight content ..with recently released Alco C424 s and Bozeman Pass route annouced its set in late Northern Pacific. Burlington Northern. eras with a EMD FT loco and BN GP30 shown so far ...TSW has no new US freight since TSW 3 and nothing freight wise seems to be coming anytime.soon for TSW

 

Did trlz#8165 just reply to trlz#8165....Errrr you can talk to others on the forum you know?

 

It’s pretty clear to me that early access isn’t going to be worth the outlay this time round. I paid for it last year and didn’t regret it, but this year I’m not so sure. Hardly a problem from DTG’s point of view, I guess they’ll get my money eventually when I read enough good things or see people play through it on YouTube. I guess the only fly in the ointment for them might be the pre-order and release day stats if enough people are feeling similarly leery about this release. Release day stats aren’t that important.

 

I'll be as vocal as others if they don't respond at all about the issues raised, however I feel we should give them some space to do so before jumping in feet first saying they aren't listening.

 

This is creeping towards the enough is enough thread. Keep it going guys.

 

There has to go a lot wrong before I will not preorder. I'm going for early access as the forum is difficult to read on the quality of a product. Most of the times the complaints are about things I will not notice. Even worse I will notice them because I read about it in complaints. People in early access will probably love it and will make me facepalm I will have to pay full price as I did not pre order and the FOMO will not make me wait until the first sales.

So for me it will be pre order and avoid the forums until I made my own impression of the game. Worst that can happen is that I end up in the Enough is Enough topic as a daily poster

 

Well, let me put it this way: out of three "standard routes" of a new TSW part, not all three were always equally good.

The American and especially German content can still make up for it and will then be my decision as to whether I pre-order BEFORE the release or not. I can always wait and buy later.

A pre-order is always a matter of trust that it will be good. I have become cautious after 4 issues of TSW, unfortunately.

I also have the feeling that they are waiting to preview the German track until shortly before the release and are only showing us the American track live beforehand.

 

We look forward to welcoming you into the Enough is Enough topic in about a week or so

 

Is there any thread left on this forum, where people don´t show up and start complaining about the lack of US freight in the game? It´s getting a bit spam like at this point.
I understand the frustration, but can´t we concentrate this to a single place? "enough is enough US freight edition" or something like that?

 

I talk to myself in real life, so this made me giggle..love the meme above too! The post above that also. Nice to see a bit of humour flying around today

 

What I personally want to see is DTG take accountability and give an update with a bullet pointed list of what they are looking at fixing on the WCML to correct the numerous problems pointed out. I honestly don't care about suspension and I'm glad they're adding a toggle to remove it, but the lighting, missing OHLE, lack of possible 350s to have realistic consists, the Watford DC timetable being barebones and the scenery all need a clear roadmap on when we can expect them to be rectified. I was planning on pre-ordering when I first saw that the WCML would be one of the routes but everything wrong with the route has made me keep my £53, and I really believe the only way DTG would listen to feedback is mass pre-order refunds.

 

It would be nice and I certainly agree with you. Unfortunately there is also a significant Say-Do gap historically when it comes to DTG and so now those like me who have been around for a while know that functionality at the point of delivery is the only measuring stick that can be counted upon these days. Suspension is one prominent example which, if I'm correct, was stated as being present on all TSW5 trains going forward, isnt, and only made an appearance towards the end of TSW4s lifecycle.

As a result, anything DTG promise will need to be seen to be believed.

 

I’ve got to be honest and say I enjoy TSC a whole lot more. The routes just seem better in so many ways such as length, the drivable trains they come with, ai traffic of many types and even the little men beside the track are animated. It just seems more a labour of love than TSW. I get the impression, though TSW is good, that it’s all about giving us exactly what it says on the tin and not a thing more.
But TSW is good for walking around etc.

 

Do agree, if I had money to upgrade lots on TSC and get these graphic enhancers and that. I would invest in it. Shame TSW can't do Euston to New Street. Its 112 miles. Imagine cutting down 62 miles on TSW. Find it rather disappointing. Would of been nice for DTG to blow everyone out of the park and going all the way to New Street with this one.

 

I think the secret is to avoid preorder. I never do that anyway as I generally wait for sales.

 

Nearly two weeks since I last touched TSW, in all honesty. TSC and Run 8 have far more to offer in terms of variety and gameplay.

 

My issue with TSC now is that it only comes with a handful of scenarios. And even with all the enhancements for me it does not look as natural as TSW. It is a lot better for more historic content, especially steam period.

I used to enjoy making scenarios but as I get older I feel more inclined to drive than spend time making scenarios. This is where service mode is a boon, despite it's imperfections.

 

If you can afford it I would really recommend the Railworks Enhancer, I think it’s version 2 now, for TSC. It’s as much as route but it teally transforms the game. I asked for mine as a Xmas present.

 

I really enjoy the full WCML Euston to BNS! It is so fun. Find it a really massive shame they couldn't do to BNS.
I hate to keep banging on but this forum stops me from being quiet ahaha. But the fact they only done 50 miles and the fact they haven't even got the timetable right for some trains 710 is it mainly? Only 4 car 350 it seems. Not good enough.
But hey ho :/

 

You can get hundreds of good scenarios on steam workshop from inside the game menu.

 

Funny enough aside from one run on ECML to check suspension (I only recently got TSW4 cheap), I’ve hardly played it recently either. I’ve been on TSC a lot as I like it. Yesterday I noticed the Class 47 I was driving not only sounded really good as I moved the throttle up and down, it really growled, but it bounced around a lot over points too as suspension was already built in, I began to wonder what all the fuss is about on TSW?

 

I realise that but most of my favourite routes aren't the workshop and for those that are I tend to use AP stock.

I just concentrate on a couple of freeware steam routes and I'm making the full 1995 timetable as scenarios for the north Wales coast, although that has taken a year and I've currently stopped any work on it.

 

Oh 100% I don't even think DTG would relent even if they were getting review bombed which was the method used to get War Thunders devs to actually listen to their community and they're infamously stubborn with the whole 'we're listening but not actually hearing you' act.

 

Keeping vaguely on topic, I also very much prefer TSC and WCML South on TSC is one of my favourite routes. I still think I’m going to enjoy it more than the TSW version just due to its length and the recent inclusion by ATS of the Northampton Loop. The problem with it has always been performance but with the Lossless utility that came out recently on Steam, it’s very good.

I still think I’ll enjoy the TSW version and I still intend to Pre Order unless the German Route is bad.

What I don’t expect is any statement from DTG. I think it’s very unlikely they will admit to a bad product and I suspect that they’ve learned from the past that any hint of a change coming is taken by some forum members as a promise.

In the very worst case, I shall pre order on Steam to get the discount and see what the release version is actually like (I can play it on game pass first as I have a sub) then if it’s really not good I can still refund. I doubt it will come to that though.

 

Alex has replied a more informative and indepth response on the WCML preview thread. I'm not technically good, and that thread is now closed, but just want to let him know I'm really pleased with the response. So thank you!

 

Alex is really the person connecting the bridge at the moment. Really well done.

 

The thing that really stuck out was the confirmation that off world destinations won't show... Are you having a * laugh??? Are we going backwards?

 

HI Alex thanks for your Answers on the WCML Q and A.
My only problem is this. We are on TSW 5 and off route destinations should be a thing like they always have. Please tell me this is going to change and we ain't gonna see every Departure board saying Milton Keynes for Avanti services. DTG Alex

 

As is mentioned a more informative article of a post release update will be released closer to the early access launch. I'd expect the destination fix to be listed there. Give them a chance.

 

No off-map destinations on the 390 PIS is a weird one- thought that issue was fixed ages ago???

I didn't see his post address the missing LO and LU services, or the "old" section from the Bakerloo DLC being brought up to standard, so i guess those are as we saw them.

I think the route will be fun once some of the bugs are crushed, but it hardly feels like a flagship release. There doesn't even seem to be much excitement from the team, more like, "well, here it is".

Strange vibes all around

 

Yes ofc Oscar, it should be out Day 1. That is all but as long as we get it I am happy just ruins the immersion a little bit. only tiny bit

 

I understand dude, it's not perfect for a day 1 launch but I suspect it won't take to long to sort. My attitude is aslong as it's been acknowledged I'm sure something like that will be sorted!

 

Good point mate. Seems like again the questions have been dodged...

 

This is all starting to look similar to the TSC WCML south post release patches which we got 3 years ago.
This route was obviously not yet ready for a release at this current time.

 

From what I got told on that day it seems it...

 

Completely unacceptable for a TSW5 route! Even some TSW2 routes have offmap destinations, this needs to change ASAP!

 

Credit where it's due though, updates on the feedback from DTG are appreciated and the mentioned plans for improvements next week show there is a will to fix them, which, without these threads, probably wouldn't have even been considered.