Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I’ve got to be honest and say I enjoy TSC a whole lot more. The routes just seem better in so many ways such as length, the drivable trains they come with, ai traffic of many types and even the little men beside the track are animated. It just seems more a labour of love than TSW. I get the impression, though TSW is good, that it’s all about giving us exactly what it says on the tin and not a thing more.
But TSW is good for walking around etc.

 

Do agree, if I had money to upgrade lots on TSC and get these graphic enhancers and that. I would invest in it. Shame TSW can't do Euston to New Street. Its 112 miles. Imagine cutting down 62 miles on TSW. Find it rather disappointing. Would of been nice for DTG to blow everyone out of the park and going all the way to New Street with this one.

 

I think the secret is to avoid preorder. I never do that anyway as I generally wait for sales.

 

Nearly two weeks since I last touched TSW, in all honesty. TSC and Run 8 have far more to offer in terms of variety and gameplay.

 

My issue with TSC now is that it only comes with a handful of scenarios. And even with all the enhancements for me it does not look as natural as TSW. It is a lot better for more historic content, especially steam period.

I used to enjoy making scenarios but as I get older I feel more inclined to drive than spend time making scenarios. This is where service mode is a boon, despite it's imperfections.

 

If you can afford it I would really recommend the Railworks Enhancer, I think it’s version 2 now, for TSC. It’s as much as route but it teally transforms the game. I asked for mine as a Xmas present.

 

I really enjoy the full WCML Euston to BNS! It is so fun. Find it a really massive shame they couldn't do to BNS.
I hate to keep banging on but this forum stops me from being quiet ahaha. But the fact they only done 50 miles and the fact they haven't even got the timetable right for some trains 710 is it mainly? Only 4 car 350 it seems. Not good enough.
But hey ho :/

 

You can get hundreds of good scenarios on steam workshop from inside the game menu.

 

Funny enough aside from one run on ECML to check suspension (I only recently got TSW4 cheap), I’ve hardly played it recently either. I’ve been on TSC a lot as I like it. Yesterday I noticed the Class 47 I was driving not only sounded really good as I moved the throttle up and down, it really growled, but it bounced around a lot over points too as suspension was already built in, I began to wonder what all the fuss is about on TSW?

 

I realise that but most of my favourite routes aren't the workshop and for those that are I tend to use AP stock.

I just concentrate on a couple of freeware steam routes and I'm making the full 1995 timetable as scenarios for the north Wales coast, although that has taken a year and I've currently stopped any work on it.

 

Oh 100% I don't even think DTG would relent even if they were getting review bombed which was the method used to get War Thunders devs to actually listen to their community and they're infamously stubborn with the whole 'we're listening but not actually hearing you' act.

 

Keeping vaguely on topic, I also very much prefer TSC and WCML South on TSC is one of my favourite routes. I still think I’m going to enjoy it more than the TSW version just due to its length and the recent inclusion by ATS of the Northampton Loop. The problem with it has always been performance but with the Lossless utility that came out recently on Steam, it’s very good.

I still think I’ll enjoy the TSW version and I still intend to Pre Order unless the German Route is bad.

What I don’t expect is any statement from DTG. I think it’s very unlikely they will admit to a bad product and I suspect that they’ve learned from the past that any hint of a change coming is taken by some forum members as a promise.

In the very worst case, I shall pre order on Steam to get the discount and see what the release version is actually like (I can play it on game pass first as I have a sub) then if it’s really not good I can still refund. I doubt it will come to that though.

 

Alex has replied a more informative and indepth response on the WCML preview thread. I'm not technically good, and that thread is now closed, but just want to let him know I'm really pleased with the response. So thank you!

 

Alex is really the person connecting the bridge at the moment. Really well done.

 

The thing that really stuck out was the confirmation that off world destinations won't show... Are you having a * laugh??? Are we going backwards?

 

HI Alex thanks for your Answers on the WCML Q and A.
My only problem is this. We are on TSW 5 and off route destinations should be a thing like they always have. Please tell me this is going to change and we ain't gonna see every Departure board saying Milton Keynes for Avanti services. DTG Alex

 

As is mentioned a more informative article of a post release update will be released closer to the early access launch. I'd expect the destination fix to be listed there. Give them a chance.

 

No off-map destinations on the 390 PIS is a weird one- thought that issue was fixed ages ago???

I didn't see his post address the missing LO and LU services, or the "old" section from the Bakerloo DLC being brought up to standard, so i guess those are as we saw them.

I think the route will be fun once some of the bugs are crushed, but it hardly feels like a flagship release. There doesn't even seem to be much excitement from the team, more like, "well, here it is".

Strange vibes all around

 

Yes ofc Oscar, it should be out Day 1. That is all but as long as we get it I am happy just ruins the immersion a little bit. only tiny bit

 

I understand dude, it's not perfect for a day 1 launch but I suspect it won't take to long to sort. My attitude is aslong as it's been acknowledged I'm sure something like that will be sorted!

 

Good point mate. Seems like again the questions have been dodged...

 

This is all starting to look similar to the TSC WCML south post release patches which we got 3 years ago.
This route was obviously not yet ready for a release at this current time.

 

From what I got told on that day it seems it...

 

Completely unacceptable for a TSW5 route! Even some TSW2 routes have offmap destinations, this needs to change ASAP!

 

Credit where it's due though, updates on the feedback from DTG are appreciated and the mentioned plans for improvements next week show there is a will to fix them, which, without these threads, probably wouldn't have even been considered.

 

Idk if no news on the dc timetable is good news or bad news.

 

I suspect the timetable issues are much more involved. I still wonder if there is a technical reason for the gaps.

 

Historically that optimism has more often than not proved to be misplaced. I wish it were not so..

 

Until its there in a patch, it's just words. History has taught us that.

 

What a joke.. No off map destinations in a 2024 TSW5 route??!

I cannot believe that this is an issue. I don’t care who made the timetable, those should not be left out. What an absolute immersion killer, for me at least. If Rivet really did make the timetable, then I don’t understand how DTG thought it was okay to give the timetable a green light with it missing so so many services, and off map destinations.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I really don't know. I don't know the process of compiling the timetable.
I remember them saying class 700 services would crash bml but I've not had any problems with the mod that is available.
I hope it will be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

The announcement next week regarding the MUCH needed fixes will determine if I order even the standard edition or not.

 

Just don't fall for the "x will be rolled out in an upcoming patch" line. Without a date its just an empty phrase to be included in your DTG Bingo home edition game. Happy to be proven wrong..

 

This is really starting to give me Trenton vibes where they included all the Amtrak services but only a fraction of the NJ Transit because they basically ran out of time. That was eventually fixed mostly thanks to Joe but it took a loooong time.

Again we don't know for sure what the final product is so I am cautiously optimistic that it was just a in progress timetable.

 

I don't blame LNWR in the slightest for wanting to remove their name from this mess...

 

The mod is pc only so they would also need to test on consoles to see how well it works

 

Nothing in the Q&A from Alex about the dreadful lighting, in tunnels and at night or the alternate light and dark coach exteriors at Euston. Or the general poor route building indicative of Rivet being involved.

Complete silence on the DC line timetable gaps oh and the lack of 8 car formations on the outer suburban. Then the thread got locked.

My mind has been made up now. Going to sit back, take the free update and wait for a deep sale in the winter or next spring.

 

It should be ready for TSW6, just as the suspension is (almost) ready for TSW5 despite being touted for TSW4 etc.
I'm not seeking to point score. Just pointing out a cautious approach is better than an optimistic one when it comes to DTG delivery.

Broadly consumers can be split into a few categories at this point. Choices will largely be based upon which category they fall into. I suspect only marginal demographic changes between these groups and the relative size of them means no meaningful change will occur.
Just an opinion.

 

There are huge chunks of services missing from the timetable, the Bakerloo timetable seems to use the same one from TSW 2 which was barren and there were no 710 AI services during the Lioness part of the preview stream where there should have been at least 2 in the opposite direction since it's a quarterly hour service. That combined with PIS with no off-world destinations is poor and amateurish for a flagship route.

I can only assume that Rivet games were responsible for this mess of a timetable.

 

Hopefully that is the case.

 

First I just want to say thanks for Alex for the communication, I am sure we all know and agree none of this is on him, or in fact a lot of the faces we associate with DTG and that they have been told exactly what they can or can't say. With that out of the way that post said so much whilst saying nothing useful at all, all the key glaring issues and questions have been pushed aside just to tell us there will be all stop services. Bloody hell DTG, I have no more words.

 

Absolutely incredible how they managed to answer so many questions while addressing almost none of the community's concerns.

 

We've not heard anything from Dovetail for nearly a week why can't they come out and explain what's happening

 

Would be nice if the gaping holes in the timetable were addressed tbh

 

Very telling how DTG are managing to answer none of the community’s most important questions. How can you claim to be listening to community feedback and then proceed to address nonsense questions that nobody is asking?

 

"Here is a list of answers to questions none of you were actually asking, apart from the off map destination one".

What is the saying about what isn't said is as revealing as what is (if not more so)!

Still going to wait and see what the early access players say about the state of the route come release on the 12th and if it really was a final build being played in the stream, even though it was implied it was not...

 

Their market model effectively demands it. I loath it just as much as you but I think they are probably unable to change course given their organisational structure/and or business strategy.
Incremental movement is about all I hope for these days, which is why I so enthusiastically embrace the core update being free move, then almost as vociferously decry the self defeating release of a sub standard route alongside a deadline for that free update..

You really couldn't make up a more cack-handed situation..