Wcml South - Not Good Enough

DTG Alex DTG JD

Apologies if this puts you on the spot, but are you able to tell us who built the route? Was WCMLS built by DTG or was it built by Rivet? I’m not asking for the why’s or wherefore’s or an explanation, just a simple answer to a simple question.

Thanks

FWIW I’m just really sorry we’re not all absolutely stoked for this route. It could have been something really special but feels like another one of those TSW FUBAR moments, something I think many of us had hoped we’d left behind. It looks so very much that many of the TSW Let-Downs have been bundled into a single Greatest Hits release.

 

Yeah, keeps crashing, I stop at the station, open the doors and save my progress. TSW 3 was more stable for me.

 

Delaying the product delays the flow of money, but DTG are happy enough to hand their customers an unfinished product.

 

Yeah, well when DTG are finished sticking their head in the sand we still be here lookin at em...waiting!!!

 

Welcome to controlling the narrative, DTG answer what questions suits their agenda.

 

Has DTG ever given estimations of where their players are based? Just wondering how severe the problem actually is. The forum gives me the impression it would be the major part of the player base.

 

Because there's more "outrage" over delaying the release than just patching it shortly after.
Choosing which course leads to less hate mail.

 

I dont think the main issues are geographical, rather than fundamental issues which have yet to be addressed that are inherent across all routes EG lighting. Once you make that mental switch, the second half of your sentence begins to make more sense, rather than the initially not so subtle implication that it is a vocal minority obsessed with route specific micro-details which users unfamiliar with the UK might be indifferent towards. Clearly one could argue in reply to that first assertion, that UK route fans do actually make up a sizeable user base proportion simply by virtue of the fact of UK route development alongside European and to a lesser extent US content, as opposed to say Chinese Railway routes, despite that country's significantly larger potential TSW user base, and thus vocal discontent on a routes state is something that should be ignored only as part of a more risky sales strategy..

 

I wasn't trying to be subtle about it. It's my impression that most UK players don't even care about non UK routes.

 

In which case, the severity of the problem about which you are wondering becomes even more acute potentially. Based of course on the assumption that DTG produce routes targeted at the countries that make up its largest user segments. So really two issues are at play here- the global problems like lighting, and the country specific interest. Neither is helpful towards downgrading the severity of the problem.

 

Yes please

 

I edited it to Chinese routes because the point I was making was more about population size, but I have to admit it would be stunning, much like the North India mountain narrow gauge railways.

 

Only if you are a majority of the player base

 

Indeed one might think that, I think erroneously. The point I make is that the routes DTG produces are targeted at the majority player base, otherwise we might be seeing more Chinese routes, despite the absence of Chinese users on this forum generally. It is a reasonable assumption that the majority of routes produced indicate the makeup of player demographics, hence modern high speed EMU for UK and so on.. so I would see it as a risky move to argue that it is a minority of the player base pointing out issues based on location, and more probable that it is the more general critique of shoddy output that we are currently experiencing. I dont think it even needs to be a majority to have an impact, as even a vocal minority that is really quite small can have a detrimental impact on the brand, franchise reputation and so on. This can be an acute problem the more niche the genre, because voices can become amplified given the narrow audience interest. Thats before we take into account lost sales from mass media reviews that we are yet to experience..
In short, it is a less than ideal situation if one were to step into a DTG investors shoes atm, saved only by DTGs dominant market share of the genre..
If it was my money, I would want it to be shored up by more than just market share which can be so transient and vulnerable to the rise of a competent competitor. Franchise reputation and brand strength is a great base to support market share and more robust to deal with an emerging threat.

 

You are assuming a lot. I asked if DTG ever had given such numbers. Now I will to try be subtle but from recent history we know UK in general can be very vocal about stuff and overstate their own worth

What mass media reviews are you talking about? There are not enough reviews to have a score on Metacritic and you only need 4 to have one. Only the Xbox platform has enough reviews for a score. Xbox managed to get just 4 reviews

 

I might be assuming a lot, and I point out that I am, but I also point out that such assumptions are reasonable compared to the opposing assumptions. Thus I would be prepared to proceed on that basis.
The mass media reviews about which I refer are yet to be produced, and I would revisit my assumptions based on new evidence.
Thus I am not presenting conclusions, but rather a set of variables of risk that I would want to consider if I were in DTGs position with access to all the data that they might have. So yes, I might be well off piste, but I might also be bang on point, thus the phrase, worthy of consideration.

 

Tbh antwerpcentral , Im just enjoying the theoretical discussion, which I always seem to do when I discuss issues with you All we're missing is the great coffee shop..

 

indeed

 

I have every US route so far, I enjoy US freight particularly, and retro, but there isn't much of that on TSW, more on TSC. I also have the Swiss and Austrian routes and some German ones, but they get a bit samey after a while, lots of red trains and all that. I shall be getting the Dutch and Japan dlc. Obviously I've bought most in sales.

 

I wasn't trying to generalise but I'm lots of times surprised about comments from UK players they don't care about non UK routes. It surprises me as for me a train is a train, no matter what livery it's carrying or what country it is in. I'm not a big fan of US routes but I'm curious enough to buy US routes.

 

IMO Dovetail should've extended a British route for TSW 5 and held off WCML South until Christmas so the project could have been completed properly. It's going to be a disaster, just like when they released WCML South for TS classic years ago.

 

I am sure there are many other belgians (going off your name) who couldn't give a toss about trains outside belgium, or europe and you may well be an anomaly in your population. I personally don't find interest in foreign trains, even those that were built in Britain for other countries, and, in actual fact there are many trains here I couldn't give a toss about either and there are likely many factors which cause this. I know my interest in trains were not one I had as a child but due to my Father's job and how close we lived to the line the knowledge and memories were there and they were of course of British trains. Then I got my railway job and the love started to form!

 

Bring back Sam.

 

It's a personal preference of course and perfectly OK to just like trains from your own backyard.

But I don't really understand that kind of parochial outlook myself, it seems so insular, narrow.

When I was 6 or 7, I accidentally discovered a giant series of books in my dad's study called something like " Railways Around The World . " I don't know why he had these books, he displayed no particular interest in the iron horse.

But I was fascinated and my interest in all countries' railways stems from that experience.

 

I have a similar outlook and enjoy discovering new trains and places abroad in TSC and TSC. But I guess we all have a soft spot for our home country.

 

Only just watching the stream now, not sure if anyone has mentioned that the AI Pendolinos have the 'wrong' pan up. They should use the rear pan, unless there's a fault on it.

 

Oh, certainly. My interest is heavily slanted towards North America, particularly these days when European railways are almost totally given over to what I like to call electric toy trains ( emus ). I'm glad that everything that passes through my neighborhood, passenger and freight, is heavy diesel.

 

Same as the Azuma, that was fixed after a few months.

Maybe summer next year they'll finally fix it.

 

DTG Matt DTG Alex - please can you fix this? Similar to the 801 bug that got fixed.

 

That's why I like N American freight, because it's so different. The other part I like is UK BR blue diesels and steam. I do enjoy local London railways though because of their history, and DMU's.

 

If I didn’t like American freight, I wouldn’t currently be pounding up the Fitzgerald Sub in Run 8!

 

San Bernadino stream is about to start Vern..

Train Sim World 5 - San Bernardino Line Preview (youtube.com)

 

currently watching the Bernadino preview stream, and wow, this route is looking great

 

Yeah i can confirm that it looks really nice

 

Route does look amazing. Big but- floating cars are still very much in evidence and an insta-immersion killer, and the shadow popping is still very eye catching too. If those two things dont bother you, its a great bit of work, and so much better than WCML. Eddie the beta tester has done a great job of getting some details in, and the assets are superb. Really looked great. Cars and shadows are really the only thing holding it back from a very high score. (for me).
Also a word of warning- Matts pc was basically dying. Dont know if that was his hardware having a hissy fit or the route throwing issues. Might want to look at that in more detail at some point..

 

i find it funny this route that was barely suggested is 5x better in everything than WCML, which was the most requested route in game

 

The shadow popping is a limitation of the game. Thats what shadows do in general in the game. Thats what i know and what Matt was told also

 

Its a limitation until its not. There's already been movement on the rail shadows, ballast shadows were mentioned by Matt in stream. There's potential there if theres the will to do it.

 

It's still not something to be held the route in particular if it's a game-wide issue.
Same with the cars honestly, unless they develop a whole new system for them.
They're like that on every route so comparing them to the standard...that's meeting the standard.

 

Panoma looks stunning. The whole vibe of the city is if you feel your'e in a American city

 

Watching the current stream has made me realise that DTG definitely did not build the WCML. The quality difference is substantial... I'm definitely now leaning towards Rivet being the route builders for the WCML, and if that proves to be true then God help the fall out that is going to happen... and it certainly shows!

 

Without any confirmation its not the case for me.

 

It's just my opinion for now, but just seeing how good the American route is VS the flag ship UK route, I've got to admit my heart sank with disappointment. It definitely looks like two different developers products. If they were both made by DTG, and they both went through the same quality control, how has one ended up good and the other so poor? The lighting, the quality and everything was there in the US route. The WCML scenary, lighting and timetables was abysmal compared to it. I just hope the statement next week proves me wrong... Got my knickers in a right twist being able to compare the two routes previews side my side!

The WCML unfortunately does look like it has all the hallmarks of a Rivet standard. If this is confirmed I'm going to change my stance on the preorder and cancel it. I hate to say it, but I'd be appalled if I find out Rivet and their utterly poor standards were used or outsourced for such a flagship route given their concrete reputation for poor quality. It will really tarnish DTGs reputation with me and I've been a very big defender of there's in the past, as well as genuinely admiring their previous products and work.

To edit and add more to my post, this would explain the lack of AI, the poor timetable, lack of railtours (which are usually in every DTG product), lack of any layers and complete bare bones standard of Rivet... it seems to mirror all of Fife Circles issues without even being played just yet.

 

That's kind of my point. A game wide issue that needs sorting is holding back an otherwise excellent product (for me).
If you don't feel the same way, that's great, but please respect my opinion too.

 

Okay, yeah. The difference in quality between the two routes is insane. Why the actual did DTG get Rivet to build WCML?
With the reputation DTG know they've got, I can't help but feel that's just taking the piss. I mean seriously? It's one of, if not the most widely requested routes, and they decided to outsource development to Rivet? If it was April 1st I'd be convinced it was a joke!
Keep in mind, this is one of the three "first impression" routes that players buying Standard Edition will see.
I don't even know what else to say, other than that I'm glad I cancelled my pre-order. DTG, you have a lot of explaining to do next week.

 

Another route with floating cars seriously that shouldn't happen

 

The floating cars look amateurish but the shadows will probably be able to be dialled out on PC with Jetwash’s mods (lod tweaks and improved lighting).

 

The more I look at this, the more I’m convinced Rivet had a big, big hand in making WCMLS. I would love to be proven wrong, but this looks a different league.

 

That’s not the books I discovered in my Dad’s study

 

Only watched 10 mins of this stream, but it looks like some care and attention has been put into this route. Which really does raise serious questions about the mess that is WCML.