Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Only just watching the stream now, not sure if anyone has mentioned that the AI Pendolinos have the 'wrong' pan up. They should use the rear pan, unless there's a fault on it.

 

Oh, certainly. My interest is heavily slanted towards North America, particularly these days when European railways are almost totally given over to what I like to call electric toy trains ( emus ). I'm glad that everything that passes through my neighborhood, passenger and freight, is heavy diesel.

 

Same as the Azuma, that was fixed after a few months.

Maybe summer next year they'll finally fix it.

 

DTG Matt DTG Alex - please can you fix this? Similar to the 801 bug that got fixed.

 

That's why I like N American freight, because it's so different. The other part I like is UK BR blue diesels and steam. I do enjoy local London railways though because of their history, and DMU's.

 

If I didn’t like American freight, I wouldn’t currently be pounding up the Fitzgerald Sub in Run 8!

 

San Bernadino stream is about to start Vern..

Train Sim World 5 - San Bernardino Line Preview (youtube.com)

 

currently watching the Bernadino preview stream, and wow, this route is looking great

 

Yeah i can confirm that it looks really nice

 

Route does look amazing. Big but- floating cars are still very much in evidence and an insta-immersion killer, and the shadow popping is still very eye catching too. If those two things dont bother you, its a great bit of work, and so much better than WCML. Eddie the beta tester has done a great job of getting some details in, and the assets are superb. Really looked great. Cars and shadows are really the only thing holding it back from a very high score. (for me).
Also a word of warning- Matts pc was basically dying. Dont know if that was his hardware having a hissy fit or the route throwing issues. Might want to look at that in more detail at some point..

 

i find it funny this route that was barely suggested is 5x better in everything than WCML, which was the most requested route in game

 

The shadow popping is a limitation of the game. Thats what shadows do in general in the game. Thats what i know and what Matt was told also

 

Its a limitation until its not. There's already been movement on the rail shadows, ballast shadows were mentioned by Matt in stream. There's potential there if theres the will to do it.

 

It's still not something to be held the route in particular if it's a game-wide issue.
Same with the cars honestly, unless they develop a whole new system for them.
They're like that on every route so comparing them to the standard...that's meeting the standard.

 

Panoma looks stunning. The whole vibe of the city is if you feel your'e in a American city

 

Watching the current stream has made me realise that DTG definitely did not build the WCML. The quality difference is substantial... I'm definitely now leaning towards Rivet being the route builders for the WCML, and if that proves to be true then God help the fall out that is going to happen... and it certainly shows!

 

Without any confirmation its not the case for me.

 

It's just my opinion for now, but just seeing how good the American route is VS the flag ship UK route, I've got to admit my heart sank with disappointment. It definitely looks like two different developers products. If they were both made by DTG, and they both went through the same quality control, how has one ended up good and the other so poor? The lighting, the quality and everything was there in the US route. The WCML scenary, lighting and timetables was abysmal compared to it. I just hope the statement next week proves me wrong... Got my knickers in a right twist being able to compare the two routes previews side my side!

The WCML unfortunately does look like it has all the hallmarks of a Rivet standard. If this is confirmed I'm going to change my stance on the preorder and cancel it. I hate to say it, but I'd be appalled if I find out Rivet and their utterly poor standards were used or outsourced for such a flagship route given their concrete reputation for poor quality. It will really tarnish DTGs reputation with me and I've been a very big defender of there's in the past, as well as genuinely admiring their previous products and work.

To edit and add more to my post, this would explain the lack of AI, the poor timetable, lack of railtours (which are usually in every DTG product), lack of any layers and complete bare bones standard of Rivet... it seems to mirror all of Fife Circles issues without even being played just yet.

 

That's kind of my point. A game wide issue that needs sorting is holding back an otherwise excellent product (for me).
If you don't feel the same way, that's great, but please respect my opinion too.

 

Who ever developed WCML I hope they never get asked to do a route let alone a flagship one again!

 

Okay, yeah. The difference in quality between the two routes is insane. Why the actual did DTG get Rivet to build WCML?
With the reputation DTG know they've got, I can't help but feel that's just taking the piss. I mean seriously? It's one of, if not the most widely requested routes, and they decided to outsource development to Rivet? If it was April 1st I'd be convinced it was a joke!
Keep in mind, this is one of the three "first impression" routes that players buying Standard Edition will see.
I don't even know what else to say, other than that I'm glad I cancelled my pre-order. DTG, you have a lot of explaining to do next week.

 

Another route with floating cars seriously that shouldn't happen

 

The floating cars look amateurish but the shadows will probably be able to be dialled out on PC with Jetwash’s mods (lod tweaks and improved lighting).

 

The more I look at this, the more I’m convinced Rivet had a big, big hand in making WCMLS. I would love to be proven wrong, but this looks a different league.

 

That’s not the books I discovered in my Dad’s study

 

Only watched 10 mins of this stream, but it looks like some care and attention has been put into this route. Which really does raise serious questions about the mess that is WCML.

 

The route does look far better than WCML

 

Matt and Alex are unable to come to the phone right now, but if you leave your name and number...

 

I have to agree with you guys, I have just popped out of the stream and this looks far better than WCML. Am I peeved, to damn right I am. Just wait until we see Frankfurt!!!!

 

Should have gone to Specsavers.

It has the same problems as WCML.

 

Doing a night run soon see how that goes

 

Relieved the SBO route is slightly better than WCML South but that's not enough to reinstate my preorder a third time. The whole thing can wait for a sale in a few months time.

 

TSW3 with ini settings and reshade still looking like my preferred option atm..

 

The one thing I did notice early on was the pop up tracks in the dense layout area just ahead of the loco. The highways are not good AI behalves strange and floats and there are no big trucks.

 

As i just remarked in another thread, DTG need to start serious work on the core so this is the default experience without mods. Really can't understand why they are so reluctant, recalcitrant or plain incompetent to do this themselves.

If you want to sell us the content, even slightly flawed, then the platform on which it runs needs to be worthwhile.

In fact that's the real reason behind my refusal to pay full price for TSW5, the pitiful core updates (or rather lack of) as opposed to the issues with WCML and it seems to a lesser extent, with SBO.

 

Absolutely. If I can do it with ini tweaks and reshade...
Unfulfilled potential. We all want it to succeed, but the parent seems oddly indifferent..
Fyi my rig is 8 years old with an i5 processor and a 1060 6GB GPU. My game ticks along at between 55-60fps. It can be done..

 

So SBO is somehow better than WCML? I'm really trying to comprehend on how does a thing like this happen? From one of the most requested routes to be thrown under the bus?

It can very much confirm Rivet were the ones behind? For anyone that doubts they are, well I'll just make a few points.

1. The lighting is very coincidentally similar to Edinburgh to Glasgow as the Fife Circle Lines. In addition to some of the scenery assets. Why are they all so bright and has a similar scenery build compared to other developed routes?

2. Why are the 390 and the 350's only being layered onto Cathcart Circle rather than BCC or the Glossop Line? Surly it'll make logic sense to layer onto the two routes as well? Likely from because the WCML is on the same code as Cathcart (Rivet helped develop the route), it may as well explain it's easier to layer. For even more reasons why layers for the Class 800 and the HST's took a while enough.

3. It's also noticeable Rivet has been quite since the Fife Circle Line. Whilst understandable they could be working on creating the extension to Leven, it's fair to say at the same time work during this time could've been helping DTG building the WCML.

Onto why would DTG would source Rivet out of themselves? Possibly from the rushed deadline they need to meet for TSW5 whether it's half-baked or not, the high executives and the share holders want cash in their pocket.

 

BCC and Glossop are TSW3 routes. Cathcart would have been redone with the 390 and 350 in mind.

 

The difference in the flares used in the scenery at night is huge between WMCL and SBO. The time is 22:36 there are no harsh lights, no spot lamps lighting buildings with stark circles of white light. I am not looking forward to the Frankfurt Stream. It will just show WMCL for what it is.

 

I could be wrong, but I very much doubt Rivet built the WCML, maybe they helped with it, but I doubt they suddenly have been solely building a very intense urban mainline route, if they did what have DTG been doing the last several months?

 

If they did then why didn't DTG say so is what I'm asking.

Normally they're upfront with this sort of thing.

 

Why wouldn't they tell us that Rivet had built it if they had? I just can't see it, but maybe I am wrong but I would want to see some evidence first. Don't forget San Bernadino is a completely different type of route to WCML with much more rural scenery and much of it single track.

 

Definitely wasn’t just them, but it seems they were involved in a large part of the route building and timetable, I think the trains and some stations were still done by DTG though

 

I am sure they had a hand in it, they have said as much I believe.

 

It would help by putting the rumours to bed. Otherwise they're not doing themselves or Rivet any favours.

 

I hate to admit defeat as someone who has been defending DTG, but all the circumstantial evidence to me is beginning to point to Rivet being the sole developers of the WCML. The question dodging being one of the biggest signs now, usually DTG answer the simplist of questions. But they have been extremely cagey and reluctant, which is out of character in my own previous experience.

So yeah, I'm going to say now, I believe Rivet are the creators of the WCML as it has all of the hallmarks of there poor work... If we look at the Fife Circle stream and this, they are very similar in terms of the problems and build standards too. To have a build displayed in the preview that wasn't an upto date build? Definitely Rivet.

I've changed sides now unfortunately.

 

It depends if they feel it is an issue which needs addressing or not.

 

Well I am not convinced and frankly I feel it isn't particularly important who made it. Maybe DTG are unable to say who made it but I can't see Rivet making a route like this on their own, it isn't as bad as Fife Circle and is a much more intensive route.

Considering we have had one (short) DTG UK route DLC for TSW4, what have they been doing for the last 12 months if not building WCML.

If I am wrong I will gladly say I am wrong.

 

I totally and sincerely respect what you are saying mate. We'll all just have to wait until next week to find out though.

 

I doubt they will say either way, so I don't think we will ever know, it will always just be conjecture.