Wcml South - Not Good Enough

The route does look far better than WCML

 

Matt and Alex are unable to come to the phone right now, but if you leave your name and number...

 

I have to agree with you guys, I have just popped out of the stream and this looks far better than WCML. Am I peeved, to damn right I am. Just wait until we see Frankfurt!!!!

 

Should have gone to Specsavers.

It has the same problems as WCML.

 

Doing a night run soon see how that goes

 

Relieved the SBO route is slightly better than WCML South but that's not enough to reinstate my preorder a third time. The whole thing can wait for a sale in a few months time.

 

TSW3 with ini settings and reshade still looking like my preferred option atm..

 

The one thing I did notice early on was the pop up tracks in the dense layout area just ahead of the loco. The highways are not good AI behalves strange and floats and there are no big trucks.

 

As i just remarked in another thread, DTG need to start serious work on the core so this is the default experience without mods. Really can't understand why they are so reluctant, recalcitrant or plain incompetent to do this themselves.

If you want to sell us the content, even slightly flawed, then the platform on which it runs needs to be worthwhile.

In fact that's the real reason behind my refusal to pay full price for TSW5, the pitiful core updates (or rather lack of) as opposed to the issues with WCML and it seems to a lesser extent, with SBO.

 

Absolutely. If I can do it with ini tweaks and reshade...
Unfulfilled potential. We all want it to succeed, but the parent seems oddly indifferent..
Fyi my rig is 8 years old with an i5 processor and a 1060 6GB GPU. My game ticks along at between 55-60fps. It can be done..

 

So SBO is somehow better than WCML? I'm really trying to comprehend on how does a thing like this happen? From one of the most requested routes to be thrown under the bus?

It can very much confirm Rivet were the ones behind? For anyone that doubts they are, well I'll just make a few points.

1. The lighting is very coincidentally similar to Edinburgh to Glasgow as the Fife Circle Lines. In addition to some of the scenery assets. Why are they all so bright and has a similar scenery build compared to other developed routes?

2. Why are the 390 and the 350's only being layered onto Cathcart Circle rather than BCC or the Glossop Line? Surly it'll make logic sense to layer onto the two routes as well? Likely from because the WCML is on the same code as Cathcart (Rivet helped develop the route), it may as well explain it's easier to layer. For even more reasons why layers for the Class 800 and the HST's took a while enough.

3. It's also noticeable Rivet has been quite since the Fife Circle Line. Whilst understandable they could be working on creating the extension to Leven, it's fair to say at the same time work during this time could've been helping DTG building the WCML.

Onto why would DTG would source Rivet out of themselves? Possibly from the rushed deadline they need to meet for TSW5 whether it's half-baked or not, the high executives and the share holders want cash in their pocket.

 

BCC and Glossop are TSW3 routes. Cathcart would have been redone with the 390 and 350 in mind.

 

The difference in the flares used in the scenery at night is huge between WMCL and SBO. The time is 22:36 there are no harsh lights, no spot lamps lighting buildings with stark circles of white light. I am not looking forward to the Frankfurt Stream. It will just show WMCL for what it is.

 

I could be wrong, but I very much doubt Rivet built the WCML, maybe they helped with it, but I doubt they suddenly have been solely building a very intense urban mainline route, if they did what have DTG been doing the last several months?

 

If they did then why didn't DTG say so is what I'm asking.

Normally they're upfront with this sort of thing.

 

Why wouldn't they tell us that Rivet had built it if they had? I just can't see it, but maybe I am wrong but I would want to see some evidence first. Don't forget San Bernadino is a completely different type of route to WCML with much more rural scenery and much of it single track.

 

Definitely wasn’t just them, but it seems they were involved in a large part of the route building and timetable, I think the trains and some stations were still done by DTG though

 

I am sure they had a hand in it, they have said as much I believe.

 

It would help by putting the rumours to bed. Otherwise they're not doing themselves or Rivet any favours.

 

I hate to admit defeat as someone who has been defending DTG, but all the circumstantial evidence to me is beginning to point to Rivet being the sole developers of the WCML. The question dodging being one of the biggest signs now, usually DTG answer the simplist of questions. But they have been extremely cagey and reluctant, which is out of character in my own previous experience.

So yeah, I'm going to say now, I believe Rivet are the creators of the WCML as it has all of the hallmarks of there poor work... If we look at the Fife Circle stream and this, they are very similar in terms of the problems and build standards too. To have a build displayed in the preview that wasn't an upto date build? Definitely Rivet.

I've changed sides now unfortunately.

 

It depends if they feel it is an issue which needs addressing or not.

 

Well I am not convinced and frankly I feel it isn't particularly important who made it. Maybe DTG are unable to say who made it but I can't see Rivet making a route like this on their own, it isn't as bad as Fife Circle and is a much more intensive route.

Considering we have had one (short) DTG UK route DLC for TSW4, what have they been doing for the last 12 months if not building WCML.

If I am wrong I will gladly say I am wrong.

 

I totally and sincerely respect what you are saying mate. We'll all just have to wait until next week to find out though.

 

I doubt they will say either way, so I don't think we will ever know, it will always just be conjecture.

 

You could be right there. There might be some agreement in place between them and we'll never know.

 

You know what, at the end of the day it does not matter who built it, what matters is that it isn't as polished as it should be, whether it is a flagship release or not it is a significant drop of quality from a product DTG are releasing. This is what is concerning and needs resolving.

 

The pan in use was the third carriage from the back. I thought that was the correct position.

 

The fact the SB line is now seen to be a reasonable standard of quality, by comparison WCML has become a facepalm meme. Chances are the German route will also probably be pretty good if past ones are anything to go by, so what the heck happened to the UK flagship route in TSW5? Don’t want to use the ‘R’ word as there’s no proof, but they’ve really dropped the ball by not allowing enough development time, despite the truncated section of the line we are getting.

 

If it’s the trailing panto then it’s correct

 

I think it's fairly considerable DTG doesn't want to admit any wrongdoings for now being they could be try to maximise their market value in relation to pre-ordering etc. Might explain why they said they likely make a statement until after early release.

 

The night lighting at WCML and SB are like night and day (pun intended).

DTG, you know what you need to do with WCML.

 

surely DTG aren't stupid enough to let Rivet create a whole route for them? I can understand if they helped a bit on some things but like surely? Even if its some bits the WCML does wreak a bit of Rivet on places which is a real shame

 

The actual timetable from Euston (not including ECS runs and arrivals) is at 20tph

 

So the preview stream said 218 services for the Overground, and there are how many overground trains a day? 150/160? Obviously some extra depot runs. Then what is going wrong in the preview as it clearly shows missing services...

(time stamp 2:26:07 on the preview stream)

 

Do you ever look at the positives? I said that this route is better than WCML. it isn’t as eyesoreing to look at, and it at least doesn’t have any timetable issues.

 

There is a lot of speculation flying around about did DTG or Rivet create wcml? EA done it, no it was Codematers? It makes absolutely zero difference who created in the respect that, if DTG has created or they wish to take the credit they created the route or lead us to believe, then the buck still stops with DTG because they have taken ownership of that product and it is down to them to quality check it (quality control he says laughing). If you buy a brand new BMW and the lights stop working (usually indicators), you go back to BMW and they inform you it's not their fault because it is a unit created by Bosch and you need to go speak to Bosch, you think they do that?

No, BMW will take ownership of any problem that arises with their car and they will have the responsibility to put that right, which will probably involve BMW going back to Bosch and dealing with them to fix the problem. Same applies to DTG, they have not told us wcml was created by Rivet, so they have taken ownership of it, their problem. And by the sounds of it from all the faults players on the forum have found with wcml, it will be the first unrelease route that needs a remaster before it has even launched. There I was thinking DTG would fix Harrow Wealdstone station, I am just gonna go outside and kick myself around the garden for thinking such silly thoughts.

 

I checked the rivet forum and there are posts asking rivet about if they had any input on this route, there is no denial, make of that what you will.

 

Despite the bad lighting issues.
Despite the timetable issues.
Despite the missing OHLE gantries
Despite the awful running 390 sounds, and I mean awful, sounds nothing like it
Despite the PIS issues - really!?! in TSW5!!!??
Despite the missing suspension, not that I'm bothered, didn't like it on the 390

At least we have............................... working lifts! Yaaaaaaaaay!

Oh and what was with the in game sound cutting out every few seconds on stream, I hope that was just the streaming software, seriously couldn't be putting up with that - would deffo be a showstopper for me that!

 

That is my main concern. It is a showstopper for me as well. I found it irritating on the stream, I certainly couldn’t play like that.

Both previews have suffered from it and there was no comment to deny it was the game. Not even from an Ambassador or Beta Tester who had played it.

I really hope it was just the stream.

 

The sound stuttering and occasional rubber banding is a long standing issue which they really do seem incapable of programming out. As said, total immersion killer.

 

Actually its:

Despite the timetable issues.
Despite the missing OHLE gantries
Despite the awful running 390 sounds, and I mean awful, sounds nothing like it
Despite the PIS issues - really!?! in TSW5!!!??
Despite the missing suspension, not that I'm bothered, didn't like it on the 390

Im still preordering the deluxe because I must have my train fix!

 

That's really going to send a strong message to DTG to stop their short changing practices isn't it.

 

Each to their own, hope you enjoy it, but I'm waiting to see how it develops from both DTG and mainly the Mod community, may pick it up later depending how/if it improves.

 

Look on the bright side, everyone. Wait two or three years and the remaster will sort it.

 

That will hold DTG accountable, that will teach them NOT to do it again. They produce and launch an unfinished product and you still gonna buy it? Errr?

 

But will thou?

 

That is the value of hype over reality. It is how PR machines work these days, pump people up, get them hyped to the point where they cannot help themselves.

 

I was being sarcastic my friend

 

Hang on a minute, no one is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here. The reason this thread exists is because there's been a preview stream (which they didn't have to do) and, for various reasons, some people didn't like what they saw. Vern has already preordered and cancelled deluxe (twice!). There is a lot of information out there, plus plenty of experience over the lifetime of TSW, so surely people can make a relatively informed decision? At worst, wait and see how other people get on (most of the active participants in this thread will probably buy it anyway) and then decide. Who cares if you get in on the 12th, the 17th or even the 9th of December?! There needs to be a sense of proportion and this thread isn't it. As usual, it has turned into a web of conspiracy theories and people feeling like DTG - or is it Rivet? - has deliberately gone out of its way to destroy their lives in some way.

Inevitably, I will now be attacked for defending DTG (I'm not) but, for the record, I will not be purchasing any TSW5 content until I know more.