Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Arguably I'd say the lack of inclusion of these liveries can be seen as more of a 'political statement' than including them, Including them is replicating real life as closely as possible which is what a Simulator should strive to do. Also weirdos on twitter are not the general public.

 

The stream is very long can anyone tell me at what part you see missing Overhead lines?

 

Can we please not turn this discussion political? This type of thing doesn't belong here on these forums. It'll just end up in a flame war starting and the thread being locked!

Anyway, for the time being I'll be sticking with the WCML South for TSC. Come to think of it, I hope the critcism against DTG are receiving will get them to fix the route like they did for TSC. If it worked once, surely it can work again, right? Right...?

 

That’s debatable, if DTG hit their projected revenue target for TSW5 with no fixes then I see no reason that they’d spend the money on staff time to fix it. It took them nearly a year to make the 801s gangways and pipes connect between each carriage properly so how long would it take them to do the more complex work required to fix the WCML?

 

Yeah I see that.

However, if DTG made a statement that was indirect but acknowledged these issues such as "We would like to apologise for the noticable issues raised. We can confirm a third party developer was outsourced and clearly did not meet ours or the players expectations etc... " , I think they would certainly gain any lost credibility back.

I can't really add more to the conversation in terms of my own speculations that I've already made though.

 

Guys come on...

 

I can't believe i'm saying this but i'm considering cancelling my pre-order for tsw5 deluxe.

As someone who only drives UK routes i was really looking forward to WCML south, and even when it was announced it was terminating at Milton Keynes i could happily accept that, so long as the timetable is busy and life like.

unfortunately we've seen that simply isn't the case in regards to the London Underground and London Overground layers. If we're going to have a 50 mile route out of a London terminus at this stage in the tsw lifecycle, it really need to have a timetable to match.

tsw2 has London to Brighton and that timetable to this day is outstanding. tsw5 should at least have those same ambitions to create a fully immersive timetable.

if anyone at DTG acknowledged these timetable concerns in their latest post highlighting frequently asked questions that would've been okay, but instead they answered a load of questions that either hadn't been asked, or had already been answered.

Without a proper immersive timetable for the UK's flagship route for tsw5, i've gone from genuinely hyped to just rather underwhelmed.

i'm thinking cancelling my deluxe pre-order is the right thing to do, and i'll just wait and hope that the WCML timetable is improved, or if not i'll reassess how i feel when Cardiff City Network comes along

and even that will live and die by the same, single critical point: the timetable mode.

for me the quality of the timetable is THE most important thing to a new route, and WCML in it's current offering just isn't good enough in my view, and nobody at DTG has currently come out to address that.

so i just cannot justify handing over almost £55 to DTG when i currently feel underwhelmed with the state of the UK offering, but i'm hoping things could change on the timetable front

i just cannot help but feel this is something that not only could have been avoided, but absolutely 100% should have been avoided at the very early planning stage of this route, as i've said before and especially a route of this nature: timetable is everything.

 

Something I am curious about is that 20tph out of Euston was mentioned earlier, does anyone know how many services go in and out of Victoria each hour in timetable mode?

 

Can we just leave irrelevant disputes out of the thread? I understand the provocation that caused it, but if you want to continue it, use the personal messages... Cheers.

 

Guys, this is the feedback thread for WCML, not Twitter. Have these conversations in private if you must; doing it here serves no other purpose than to derail the topic, potentially leading to the entire thread being locked by an admin.

 

Almost time to merge this with the enough is enough thread.

Has there been any new Intel on the WCML since the reveal?

 

To get it back on topic, I do find it funny that this time around the US route seems better than the UK route... I guess we're in the same boat that all of the US fans have been in for the last few years. Also the fact they get 2 timetables while the WCMLs is incomplete is also surprising to me. Please don't misunderstand me, I am super glad that the US fans are getting some attention, its just a shame each route didn't seem to get equal care and attention.

 

DTG JD Sorry for the ping but please could you kindly sort this out before it gets any worse? Last thing we want is to have the whole thread turning into this...

 

Aside from the Q&A that didn't answer any important questions that have been asked, nope.

 

People, please just hit the report button on the posts. There is no need to carry on this kind of conversation. Especially when the community team has likely gone home for the weekend.

 

So, what likely can be done to elevate the quality of the WCML, or is it going to become abandoneware?

 

Me and a few other modders have ideas for PC, but sadly that can't be transferred to console...

 

Well it needs a completely new timetable, the light baking in tunnels/stations fixed and night lights being added in.
At that point it would be acceptable, albeit not the best scenery wise.

 

As Fawx said a new timetable and lighting fixes, and I'd personally add the other 57 class 350 running numbers so we can have appropriate length trains. As someone who lived along the WCML south for around 9 years I can count on 1 hand how often I saw a 4 car 350 running. Oh and also the 710 should be modified to represent the 710/3 5 car units that also run on the Watford DC which would just be copy pasting a second MS into the formation. Oh and eventually the NLL as a separate route so we can have the 378 layer onto the Watford DC too.

 

Very much up to DTG. Their recent releases have been pretty good, so this one being at best average is a surprise.

Even if they did contract it out it’s marketed as a DTG product, so it’s down to them to improve it.

It’s annoying. Maintalbahn is another average route that didn’t match up to the quality of other releases around that time, at least in my opinion. That hasn’t been improved apart from a few bug fixes.

It does seem that occasionally we are going to get a sub standard route. Pretty unfortunate for DTG, that it’s the one UK route a lot are looking forward to.

 

It does feel like a bad joke for 'the most requested route' to be this mid.

 

Well, we know we can expect 'minimal changes' between the stream and release, so that clarifies the points raised about possible dev builds etc as being erroneous.
Given DTGs lack of speed on patching improvements in (no statement of value, just historical observation), its unlikely that'll happen any time soon.
Modders, you have the con! I'd just like ro say we're all counting on you!

 

Agree with Fawx that this is the bare minimum required to become an acceptable-quality route.

I would stress that the new timetable should include not just the basic service patterns at their real-life frequencies together with all ECS movements (although that's the place to start), but should also include realistic freight, authentic rail tours, seasonal RHTT movements and AI services on visible adjoining lines (North London Line at Willesden Junction, St Albans Abbey branch at Watford to name two where we already have the correct stock).

Additional things would include more scenery clutter - see the San Bernadino lineside litter or Goblin platform signage as to what that looks like. Correct (or as correct as licensing will allow) platform running boards.

Less repetitive foliage would be good, correct stop signs across the route including bespoke 710 stop signs are a must.

Ensuring dioramas, snow build-up, third rail and overhead sparks are present as appropriate.

Enhanced platform textures (see Blackpool Branches) would be good too, as well as fixing the inaccuracies in station buildings etc. carried over from Bakerloo line - see Wembley fast and slow lines, issues with Harrow & Wealdstone station buildings etc.

Eventually, I would also like to see suspension come to the 710 as it is a notably 'bouncy' unit in reality and will be the last unit regularly operating in-game that doesn't have the improved feature.

 

Thank whatever higher power you believe in for the work that modders put in with no financial incentive.

 

i have said this else where and i will say it again, this should've went up to Birmingham.

Alternatively go invest in TSC with WCML South, worth much more money if you want to go birmingham from London.
Still hate how they cant be bother to reimplement /2s on BML/ECW :/
It bugs me to no end.

 

Because it functions the same as the /4.

 

IT DOES NOT ITS A DUAL VOLTAGE TRAIN. /4 IS 3RD ONLY.

for god sakes i am really tired of people like these trash talk about the electrostar when they clearly have their differences. Please do your research.

 

My hope is that the modders that rescued Fife Circle, will also take this route on. They are all legends in my opinion. The Fife Circle timetable in particular is way better than Rivets and has been updated more than once to improve it. The timetable is the worst thing about WCMLS so would be great if the modders do take it on. Won’t help my PS5 though.

 

If I knew how to begin modding in TSW I'd gladly try it out and help if I could. I've developed on other platforms but never done much with UE / Train Sim World. If knew where to get started I could happily go from there, so if anyone involved in modding would be so kind as to point me in the right direction with making mods for TSW I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

1000%

 

as always thank you for taking the time to come on here JD, for what it's worth i have a lot of respect for what the likes of yourself, Matt and Alex amongst others do here.

in this case i'll hold off on cancelling my £54 deluxe pre-order, although as i've said before as i only drive UK routes, everything rests on the WCML offering for me.

if the timetable concerns that myself and so many others have raised are addressed then perfect, although as i've said before routes are made or broken by the timetable mode offering, so unless the WCML concerns do get adressed early next week i have no choice but to cancel my pre-order and hope for improvements down the line.

but i'll remain hopeful nonetheless, thanks again JD for the updates!

 

My last Rivet based comment, but if this has been outsourced to Rivet expect any updates to be a one off, post release update and then abandon it... That is what really concerns me with their track record.

 

Small question to gauge a kind of community response? How many of you would actually care that a 350/1 model was masquerading as the /2, /3 and /4 assuming the /2 numbered units had the correct London Midland transitional livery? Or would the detail differences between the variants be too much to ignore? I went to sanity check and APs Class 350 EP for TSC uses the 450 as its base so all units have 3rd rail shoes which are only present on the /1s and I don't remember that getting too much backlash for the decision.

 

Can't buy this route until the Euston lighting is fixed. Several other problems, but that is the main one IMO. How all carriages bar one, which is glowing, can be dark is shocking...

 

I know you did a TVL route timetable, do you know how easy/difficult it would be for DTG/Rivet (whoever wrote the timetable) to correct the PIS and show services off map?

 

It would be so nice if DTG added a section for Creators Club where you could upload and download custom timetables so consoles could experience them.

 

Which to be fair will still run on the free version of TSW5 as I can’t see it needing any layers from WCML South.
Likewise WCML Over Shap which will be the other route, along with the Dutch offering that I’m really looking forward to.

 

Already asked them with no answers just yet...

Anticipating next week now!

 

Yeah I couldn't resist TSW4 because I was seduced by all the core updates, but the radio silence from DTG regarding (most of) the big WCML community feedback issues does not bode well for TSW5's launch. If they stated those issues would be fixed in a day 1 patch or very soon after, that would be fair enough, but the silence is deafening (and frustrating).

 

You don’t. They’re missing.

 

Thank you JD for the update.
I honestly don't think anybody expects the big issues to be fixed day one, but a commitment to address the community’s concerns over things like the OG timetable and others would be most appreciated. I know we complain and make a lot of noise, but all anybody wants for this route is for it to achieve its full potential.

 

Yeah it's pretty easy. Would take me maybe two hours to add new off map destinations for everything on Fife?
Steps 1-2 only need to be done for each new off map destination, so Birmingham new street for example.
Steps 3-5 need to be done on every portal command. Which is literally selecting the stations from a dropdown list for each portal command. If the portals have the same stopping patterns you can even control click select them to apply to more than one.


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Regardless of please be constructive requests, it's difficult to possibly invest more money into TSW products. JTs offering looks great, however I already have Preston To Carlisle on TSC which I have 86s for, a freeware 85, not to mention 156s, 150s, 101s , 31s, 37s, 47s, etc and a full selection of mk1 and mk2 rolling stock (including buffets). To invest in the DTG routes now would be madness, my TSC install looks great (last night flew out of Carlisle heading north behind and 86 with a set of Mk3s in IC). I have yo yo,d between TSW and TSC and now TSW latest core updates is a guard mode which I have no interest in and some photo options. Where is the update to the Signalling system so it can behave like a proper railway operation. Why is the save system a lottery and has one slot only. When the fun stops as they say.

TSW had so much potential. Its now lost in a sea of negativity. I really enjoyed it at first and have dipped back in. But it really feels so restrictive and that's a big negative in my eyes.

 

I am aware of the differences between the two subclasses, thank you very much.

But on BML, the pantograph has no purpose as the entire route is 3rd rail, its therefore purely cosmetic. So with that, what can the /2 offer on the route that the /4 can't?

I'm not "trash talking" the electrostar, just pointing out why the /2 on BML is pointless when it doesn't use its pantograph on it.

And, next time, be more polite with the tone of your posts.

 

I mean technically it would be more correct for the services that are timetabled to MKC but that is really splitting hairs at that point.

 

I will be buying it regardless

 

I've not watched the preview, one thing I've noticed with rivets routes, is that the signals only go clear when you lock the doors! Anyone noticed anything like this?

 

That's down to the timetable. Not using the "Dispatch Beyond" Command properly.