Dtgs Stance On Us Freight

There are existing Citrus refrigerated box cars on the Clinchfield route (Florida Orange Growers logo)

 

What? The logo is FGE, which is Fruit Growers Express, not Florida Orange Growers....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_Growers_Express

 

I don't find freight routes particularly interesting. They just don't have much appeal for me to be honest compared to passenger routes

 

Mixed Routes are the only Fun to enjoy for everyone
Like making the West Palm Beach for 70 Miles or the Hudson Line from TSC as well

 

Hudson line doesn't really have much going for it from what I can see.

From CSX's Croton West Yard to Oak Point yard, there is no industries, aside from the Waste Management plant/yard that was in the original TSW NEC route. Not to mention, no Cab Signals, so not playable till DTG adds that to a CSX locomotive.

 

I'll be curious to see if there are any tweaks to Oakville Subdivision's rolling stock substitutions in TSW5. It was cool in TSW2, made even better in TSW3 then almost completely removed in TSW4. Only the Norfolk Southern three bay hoopers show up now.

DW

 

Yeah, my bad. I'm a New Yorker, not a Floridian.
You know what I meant though, so the point was conveyed.

 

Meaning an "expert" loco, like the 101?

 

no a Loco DLC as Standalone without a Route selling for the CSX with all Safety Systems for any Boston or New York Route for likely 15,99

 

Ah, so standard with the addition of safety devices.
Got it.
Not my cup of tea, but there's something for everyone I guess.
I usually just turn them off anyway.
I'm less of an "authentic simulator" and use the game more to relax with a nice drive.

 

DTG have to make a Freight Loco with Cab Signals, or we want not getting any Freight for Boston or New York as you See on Boston Sprinter

 

I love US rail but have a growing disdain for US rail operators lol.

Have DTG tried contacting any class 2 or 3 railroads?

On the more "out there" end of the spectrum, have y'all tried tagging along with a manufacturer to the Transportation Technology Center? https://ttc-ensco.com/railway-test-tracks/
Super long-shot, I know, but it couldn't hurt to ask Wabtec, Siemens, Bombardier, etc. That would only solve the access problem, though. I realize that the actual licensor could still strip door operation out, for example, if they wanted to.

 

Have you picked up the excellent Oakville passenger timetable over at Train Sim community? Adds all sorts of goodies including US freight operators.

https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...-commuter-2024-timetable-enhancement-pack-v12

 

I think exactly the opposite.

 

It goes even further than that. What's a "passenger service?" The urban commuters vs the suburban vs the intercity vs the railtours.....all of which have their fans.....most of whom even disagree internally, adn then there's the country lovers/haters... ;-)
As much variety as TSW has, still can't make everyone happy!

 

Yes. A real railfan is intersted on everything about rails. Equally if is a tram, narrow gage, commuting, Highspeed or freight. And equally which country too. It's so interesting to see the different approaches of railroading.

 

[citation needed]

 

It's obviously. No citation needed.

 

RUN8 is not so much sold. The reason could be, that it is not available on consoles.

 

At Matt just said on the other thread ("TSW5 should be an upgrade of TSW4" I think), the whole reason for TSW was that they wanted to reach out to consoles. and that required a LOT of work that wasn't necessary for TSC. So it doesn't surprise me that most train sims are PC only.

As far as "railfans." Well, it's like any other hobby. People have particular things they LIKE about it more than others. I like airplanes too, but airliners are as boring as EMUs are in trains. However, some people like them.... eh, to each their own. The huge amount of people who play EMUs and airliners in sims is testimony that they DO seem to be the majority.
However, just because they're the majority they're not everything.

In aviation as in train sims.... like minds tend to gather where they specialize. So, while you do find some military aircraft on "Microsoft Flight Simulator" (or freight on TSW), the majority are airliners and EMU passengers. (Maybe 80%?)
Likewise, there are other sims that focus more on the "grittier" side... military aircraft in DCS (Digital Combat Simulator and TSC, Run 8, etc in train sims) And there too there is console support for Microsoft Flight Simulator but not on Digital Combat Simulator....

I wonder if there is a solid link between the two. Do console players tend to like to drive passengers around, while the PC players tend to focus more on freight/cargo/combat? No data for this beyond that roughly 80% of both games (MSFS/TSW) are console players and they SEEM to go hand in hand, but it's not like it's a 100% correlation.

Just seems like an interesting phenomenon.

Anyway, back to "railfans." I don't think they're much different than other "fans." You have some generalists, but a lot are also parochial and focused on "niches" too. For example, the guy who reads about WW 2 doesn't always care about WW 1 or Civil War. The baker who makes cakes doesn't always want to know more about bread or lasagna recipes. The flower lover doesn't necessarily care about mass production of wheat....

TSW is in that position where they have as a business model being "everything for everyone" and it can be a bit tough making those stretches.

 

I'm in a process of doing some investigative work of centralising some resources for US content but there's a few Discords that are dedicated to storing blueprints and alike of historical locomotives and some obscure stuff. Do you want me to forward the discords on to you as they are quite extensive and are well organised. They are also publicly available too!

 

Yes you can have special interests too. That's not the problem. But if you have some respect for the interests of other people, you would'nt say, that their hobby is boring. It's a question of empathy and respect.

 

Yes building a console version needs more effort. But normally it brings a lot of more income for the company too. And perhaps somedays RUN8 will enter the Consoletrain too.

 

Respect isn't as common as we would like to think.
No matter whether it's a hobbyist or not.

However, to be fair, peter787 said "I don't find freight routes particularly interesting" making it a personal opinion, not an outright declaration. He said they didn't appeal to HIM.
That's respectful.
He's stating his personal opinion, but not attacking others.
At least he's not like others who have outright declared TSW should NOT make freight routes because they "waste resources" that can make more content THEY like.

 

Having respect for other people's interests is very much not what you are doing by saying that "true railfans" are interested in everything.

 

The Hudson line has the occasional CSX trash trains that run between Oakpoint/Hunts Point Terminal Market to CSX Croton West Yard, and points north, and the New York & Atlantic Railway via West side line once in a blue moon. I think the CSX train traverses the Hudson line three times a day. Once during the early morning hours, then mid day, followed by late night

 

Expressing his own opinion only would be starting a thread like "Freight trains aren't interesting to me. Who thinks the same?"

But if you write that in a thread about the wish for more American freight, the intention is clear. To show others, that you don't like their hobby.

It's the same if you would go on a Railtour event and you would say to the people there, that trains are absolutely uninterestimg to you.

 

Yes you can discuss about the definition of the "true railfan". But my post didn't implied that I don't like the hobbies of people with special interests. If you red the whole post you would see that I like their favorite rail topic too. How should that be disrespectful?

Btw. You know the song "Real American" from Rick Derringer. Nobody would come on the idea, that this song is disrespectful about Americans, that aren't 100 like that people in that song.

 

Run 8 is not even on Steam ,its a 3rd party webware download ..I was told on TSC forum that Run 8 prob wont come to Steam ..if it dont come to sream it will never come to Console ..

 

Also was told on another forum on here Run 8 is too advanced for consoles to handle

 

There are several types of freight trains in the US:
-High-priority unit trains (coal, oil, intermodal, autorack, etc.); these trains go from point to point on a route nonstop
-Local freights; these pick up and drop off freight cars at industries along the route; lots of switching opportunities here
-Special trains (MOW/Work Trains, Boeing Fuselage Trains, trash trains, radioactive waste trains); some cool stuff that should be added to TSW
-Power movements: hostlers (loco servicing work), light loco runs (just locos, no freight cars)
-Yard switching operations; challenging and fun

I'd love to see some more routes with local services, yard jobs, and loading and unloading of freight cars.

Some people find slow freight trains boring. I am not one of those people. Freight trains are common here in the US, and that's what I like. However, what if we could get a higher speed line with freight services? I have two suggestions:

1.) Brightline and Florida East Coast: Miami-West Palm Beach (maybe to Orlando); this route has the following features:
-70MPH+ speeds
-Both freight and passenger services
-Nice paint schemes (FEC Champion livery)
-Interesting operations: FEC uses LNG in their modern diesel power
-Modern locos: Siemens SCB-40 Charger (a must have for me), FEC ES44C4 w/ LNG Fuel Car (in base route), and either an FEC SD40-2/-3, GP40-2/-3, or FEC GP38-2/-3 (1 in base route; other 2 as DLCs)
-Flat grades and nice Florida scenery

2.) ATSF or BNSF Seligman Subdivision (Arizona Divide route from TSC): Needles, CA-Winslow, AZ; this route features:
-Almost 300 miles long (way too long for TSW; could be done in 3-4 sections to get the whole thing
-Desert, mountain, and forest scenery
-70MPH speeds on freight trains; faster with passenger trains
-Freight and passenger trains
-Lots of trains (at least 70 per day on busy days)
-Unique history (Route 66, Grand Canyon, ATSF RR)
-Locos needed: ATSF or BNSF power; Amtrak P32-8BWH, P42DC Genesis, or ALC-42 Charger on SW Chief passenger train
-Perhaps an ATSF Super Chief or El Capitan passenger consist to go with the ATSF F7s
-ATSF 4-8-4s #3751 and #2926
-Grand Canyon RR DLC (?); formerly an ATSF branchline, so that could be included in an ATSF version of this route

 

Consoles are just fixed spec mid-range PCs at the end of the day, it would take effort to rebuild on console but what the game is doing is definitely not "too advanced".

 

They are mid-end PCs (problem one if you need high end PCs) and they have a specialized operating system...which is problem two.
If they don't want to do the work and it's just a hobby more or less (passion project) then they don't have to....
DTG decided to go to TSW in order to capitalize on the profit from all those console operators. However, if your focus isn't profit then you don't need the extra work with a limited work crew.

 

I do this with my East Coastway freight runs, because of the handbrake on the wagons while I run around the consist for the return run. Very immersive. Add to that setting up the cab for personal taste with the electric gizmos in the class 66 and it feels l8ke taking over the train rather than jumping into a game.
Immersion wins every time for me.

 

And that is perfectly fine. Not everyone is going to have the same tastes.

 

Completely agree with you. This time.

 

It's a forum. I didn't break any rules and can have an opinion. It's no different than someone saying on another thread that they may not find a certain route interesting whether it's passenger, freight, retro steam or modern. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't find freight routes interesting at all. I also think that they simply are not immersive enough in TSW and only cover basic operations. I don't have an issue if DTG make more freight routes. If anything, they should make more freight routes for those who like them if they can. I'm not someone who thinks that DTG should never make freight routes or a route that someone may be interested in.

 

Yes, absolutely, I was just pointing out the inaccuracy of it being "too advanced", have you looked at the minimum specs for Run 8?, it could run on pretty much anything.

I'm not saying they should build it, I'm just saying that they could, I can't think for one second that they actually would, but that wasn't the context of the comment I was replying to.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think for US freight routes it would first need a significant overhaul of the existing system and routes. Foreign powers, truly mixed manifest, more siding operations, fixed mainline locos (both AC44s and HSC GEVO) etc etc. Such "remasters" to older freight routes could test new ways and show players what future routes might provide. Throw in some loco DLCs to improve variety (GEVOs should now be in pretty much all colours and versions, it's criminal that they're not) and see where that goes.

 

Yeah, 1st things 1st is to make sure all modern locomotives (AC4400CW, C40-8W, SD70ACe, ES44AC, and ES44C4) can all 1st play nice with each other and work properly (Air brakes, dynamics etc) On top of some bugs that happen with them.

2nd would be to fix subbing so it isn't overpowered like it used to be (When UP took over SPG) but possible in timetable in small numbers or on trains that it makes sense on (AND NO SD40-2's PLEASE, THIS ISNT THE 1990's)

3rd. Now that randomizing consists is possible with the Metrolink cars on SBL, why cant we do that if a car is a similar type?

For example, we have 3 versions of a Hi-Cube boxcar, in UP, BNSF, and fake TTX (DTGX) colors. You tell me DTG can't make a system where a manifest can randomly pull one of those 3 cars in a boxcar string? Or is it that unloaded glitch that keeps happening with Oakville?


However this would all require DTG to go back and fix these for free, and with not many on DTG's dev team taking care of that as a personal project like some UK routes, these are all just dreams.

And we can't expect modders to fix them either on PC, as the add-on manager messed up how TSW handles DLC's, which broke alot of good mods back in the day......

 

What game is that ?

 

Couldn't this be sort of solved by setting car weights as loaded, and only loaded? Not like you'll see the loads on most cars anyway (Barring flatcars, bulkheads, wells cars etc)

Kind of like how on TSC most freight cars released later have a "loaded" and "unloaded" version.

 

Wouldn't it be possible to first mash up the consist and then hand out "loaded" tags? If the train is randomized first, the information about load type should be there. Also why doesn't it work with different liveries of the same freight car?

Edit: Also this problem has been mentioned for years, has there really not been any attempt at fixing it? It would also do nicely for German manifests

 

Want the MP36 also Available for Antelope Valley to Sub in?

 

I bought the Croton Harmon route for TSC in the last big sale on Steam was 6.99 at first i overlooked the route until i saw what came with it for loca freight..it came with a CSX SD40 2 and a CSX Genset loco there actually a fair amount of local freight services a few with the DLC and a good many community created workshop scenarios, the DLC gives you runs from Tarrytown CSX yard to Oak Point etc..also services to Hunts Point for the produce warehouses .again it s TSC .if this route ever came to TSW it prob be passenger only and no playable CSX local freights .i would like playable local freight services in routes that have it.IRL.too bad NY Trenton couldnt have had CSX NS freight locals everyone wanted full Amtrak and NJ Transit Timetables and the route still chokes up cause too much traffic even LIRR 2 too much traffic for game to handle trains getting stuck etc ..

 

Matt, I would suggest that this fix should become a bit higher on the priority list. North American freight is sort of the red headed stepchild in TSW. Since most timetable runs are rather uninspired A to B runs especially with unrealistic consists, a randomizer to make more realistic consist would be a bone to the freight enthusiast.



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