I don't recall him saying anything, although it does sound familiar. I do agree about the quality control and that it should exist (and if it does, it definitely needs to be better). But it wouldn't surprise me if even the change in beta testers contributed to this in some way.
This could be the the reason why we haven't got a full timetable perhaps and I've heard rumours of an class 86? But it's all speculation but you probably aren't wrong with they could be leaving gaps for the voyager too
Looking at your response I take it that to create what would be a more true to life timetable for WCMLS would be quite a task
Yeah, I remember DTG ramming steam down everybodys throat, I am not a massive fan of steam, but I was delighted to see it come to TSW and then........
I do not envy beta testers. It must be frustrating reporting unanswered bugs/deficiencies whilst at the same time keeping a cool head so as not to get kicked off the beta program.
The problem isn't rivet, it's dtg! Rivet have done what they have been contracted to do. It's down to dtg to say this isn't really up to our standards, do something about it. I own all rivets routes, I've not always been happy with the quality but it's a route dtg ain't gonna produce at the end of the day. In any business, if you subcontract some work out to someone, and it's not up to standards then that's on you, not the subcontractor! Because at the end of it, you should be checking it's upto standards and putting it right if it isn't.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...e-london-euston-milton-keynes-feedback.84525/ This thread will certainly explode on day one.
They will probably put all replies on pre-moderation. I kid you not. This is going to be one helluva party!
Saying they've listened is one thing. Actually delivering on their "promise" is another. History has taught us that the hard way many times. PS: Be nice to Rivet everyone! They're always trying to deliver their best!
Thanks for your reply - the main point would be the number of trains you would meet along the route - which may or not be the most important aspect to an individual and so to one most interested to the actual driving of the service - making the stops on schedule and hitting the correct stop points it might not matter as much as one who wants to see a lot of traffic. i am not saying it isn't important, but different people might put different importance on seeing only 6 different services vice 10 on their run. best
there are about 16tph through MKC. And we don’t know if Alex accounted for AI. The 390 timetable is extremely underwhelming as is the 350. In an ideal world the WCML should be as big if not bigger than SEHS. As traffic wise that section is arguably the busiest stretch of route in the United Kingdom. Queen’s Park alone can see up to 40 trains per hour. Wembley should be alive with different layers from the uk to simulate the depot feeling. Minor things like that make a route come alive and give it so much replayablilty
It’s interesting the number of people who say they have cancelled their pre-orders (I haven’t - I can make up my own mind but I respect those who have) but I wonder what percentage of players actually frequent these forums. The rest will not be swayed one way or the other from the (perfectly valid) opinions of forum members, myself included, and are likely to buy it anyway or at least claim the free upgrade. So, yes, we provide good feedback on what we think of the routes but they will probably sell in sufficient quantities for the exercise to be repeated next year and the year after ad nauseam. Not sure what point I am trying to make (I’m halfway through a good bottle of Rioja!) but it is a stream of consciousness that is going through my mind at the moment. I hope that we can all get some enjoyment out of TSW5, whether we get the free update or buy one of the packages.
Absolutely. We used to have a saying - You can delegate responsibility but you cannot delegate accountability.
For me it’s a mix of both. Take BML for example, I’m never going to complete every single service on that route, but I have completed every GX service, partly because they are express runs which don't run so long they bore me, partly because they’re end to end & partly because i get the immersion of running the service inside of the vast sea of commuter services. I don’t think I’d enjoy them anywhere near as much if the BML timetable was comparable to WCML. I don’t like Electrostars, in themselves they’re one of the most boring driving experiences in TSW IMO, but the backdrop of what BML delivers negates the negatives of it for me. BML in itself is proof of what an expansive timetable can do for a route, because BML as a scenic product is certainly nothing special & there are parts of it which are horror shows *Reigate*. The problem when you come to WCML though is that it takes both the traffic & service accuracy away. The Tring services for example are setup as all stop runs rather than express runs & the lacking TT doesn’t give anything to look forward too in terms of traffic. I think there’s something to each route in TSW which classifies what sort of experience you’re going to get, when you take BML with its massive TT you forget that it’s a sea of electrostars & inaccurate scenery. The same way that Niddertalbahn has such great scenery you don’t pay attention to the lack of trains. Then you can take something like NTP or RSN, which aren’t known for having great timetables, nothing special going on for scenery, but the routes themselves have a moody theme which is what immerses you. When you look at WCML, it’s just a heap of disappointment that doesn’t offer an expansive timetable, it doesn’t offer versatile gameplay, it doesn’t offer good scenery, it doesn’t offer accurate services & it’s completely sterile so has no real ‘feeling’ for lack of a better word. I think I’ve ranted on abit & overshot your point, but ultimately I just think that most DLC’s have something going for them other than their name, and for WCML you’d expect that something to be ‘busy timetable’. I doubt anyone was expecting jaw dropping aesthetics for it. WCML was always going to be all about the timetable.
Thanks for your input - it is appreciated. Like I stated everyone might have different preferences and have different priorities - I do like see busier routes don't get me wrong - but not overly miffed if there is less than total realistic timetables - a total absent of traffic would not be to my liking.
For the 350 it’s really quite close. For the 390 I’m assuming he didn’t include AI as 49 for one subclass was the playable number shown on stream too. DTG has already confirmed there are AI 390s which don’t stop at MKC. WCMLS is busy & DTG has failed here, but for AWC there at most 7TPH at MKC, which can drop as low as 3TPH throughout the day. So for 50 services on each subclass you’re again pretty much there. To be clear I am not defending what DTG have done with this TT & lack of traffic in general, but it’s not as simple (or accurate) to say it should be busier than another route just because. Again this goes back to another comment I made regarding some transparency around an AI count & a TPH count.
A quick approximate summary of the correct off-peak service intervals if it's helpful for those not in the know. Stop numbers are those on the in-game route. 1) Bakerloo line / 72TS, Queen's Park - Harrow (10 stops on route), 4tph 1a) Bakerloo line / 72TS, Queen's Park - Stonebridge Park (5 stops), 4tph 2) Watford DC line / Class 710, Euston - Watford Junction (19 stops), 4tph 3) LNWR / Class 350, Euston - Tring (6 stops), 2tph 4) LNWR / Class 350, Euston - Milton Keynes Central (13 stops), 2tph 5) LNWR / Class 350, Euston - New St (5 stops), 2tph 6) LNWR / Class 350, Euston - Crewe (2 stops), 1tph 7) Avanti / Class 390 Pendolino, Euston - Blackpool North / Glasgow Central / Edinburgh Waverley, 14tpd (assume 1tph) 8) Avanti / Class 390 Pendolino, Euston - Birmingham New Street, 1tph 9) Avanti / Class 390 Pendolino, Euston - Liverpool Lime Street, 1tph 10) Avanti / Class 390 Pendolino, Euston - Manchester Piccadilly, 1tph 11) Southern / Class 377, East Croydon - Watford Junction (3 stops), 1tph
pretty sure avanti run a bihourly Glasgow fast/semi fast? And there’s Wolverhampton services and also Northamptons as well as the Bletchley slows. When you go on RTT you see how many more services are missing https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/simple/gb-nr:EUS/2024-09-11/1400
Watching snippets of the German route this evening. Cor blimey, but the huge difference in the type of lighting being used is very noticable. To me the German routes lighting on the eyes is far more pleasant and natural...
I have a feeling Rivet have had the whole WCML to themselves and like DTG have had no involvement with WCML. Just the difference is their!
The quality difference between WCML and Frankfurt (also to a slightly lesser extent San Bernadino) is absolutely ludicrous. I appreciate it's not always been the case in the past but UK-focused players are undoubtedly getting shafted for this core release.
I'm not seeing any 390 services that have more than 3 stops on the map? I only See Euston, Watford Junction and Milton Keyns Central as stop points for Pendos?
My next concern is if they have had any part in the development of the rolling stock, now we've confirmed the input they've had on the route. Because if they have built and implemented the stock for the route then that will be the next fall out... I know the sounds are from DTGs catalogue, but the implementation of physics, and sounds from Rivet would be a huge concern to me. Tomorrow will tell us all we need to know.
Correct - I'd pasted this from an earlier assessment when we weren't sure if it might go to Rugby or New St, my bad!
You are not getting a class 86 on WCML South. For a start, you would need functioning neutral sections for old AC locomotives (and Rivet Games proved they have no idea how to make functioning neutral sections on Edinburgh - Glasgow), and secondly, WCML South is set about 10 years too late for the class 86 to realistically run on it.
The German route looks great and has probably saved TSW5 for me. I thought San Bernadino looked good too save for the odd weird lighting effect. All the three routes should be equal but WCMLS does seem to be the runt of the litter, certainly from the timetable.
In my honest opinion, No excuse at all to miss services especially since we got RealTimeTrains and since WCML South is the current timetable how on earth you can muck it up is beyond me! Like RTT tells you everything! You got it all their right infront of you! Yet they have missed London Overground services with that stupid 90 min gap like whaaaaaaat.
There is one train per hour from Euston to Glasgow Central that runs fast (First stop Warrington Bank Quay), but there is also another service pattern that calls at most stations Avanti serve on the WCMLand runs via Birmingham. They tend to alternate between Blackpool and Edinburgh, but I think 1 or 2 go to Glasgow instead.
I have done the Service Via New Street to Glasgow Central.. In November doing a 390 first Class Run from Euston to Glasgow. Really want to do the Non stop one to Warrington seems fun xd. But the Fast runs is 30 mins past the hour Longer runs are 16 mins past the hour
I've done the southbound run from Glasgow on the faster service, it was my first trip on a 390 so was quite exciting. The train arrived late into Euston so I had to make a dash for my train home from Waterloo - I needed to make that one as the next one was considered peak hours so my ticket wouldn't have been valid.
The suspension timetable, is promise suspension to players in TSW4, then say definitely coming to TSW5, then in TSW6 say what suspension?
Seen this guys, worth a watch. Probably rubs salt into the wound. Train sim society's video...Errrr not really helping DTG.
Slightly OT but for those still considering whether to buy, re-order or even refund it does look from the early reports coming in, that if you have an interest in the German route/scene this may actually live up to the promise and be quite good. Adds to the dilemna though... We have one route that is really good - Frankfurt to Fulda. One route that is so, so - LA to San Bernadino. And one route that is, well Rivet's Euston to MKC. Not going to kid anyone this is massively conflicting but I always kind of knew the German route might save the day. But it does absolutely confirm the crazy situation that exists at DTG, where three routes for the same product can vary so much in quality. They really need to get on top of production and co-ordination so we are spared this nonsense next year.
To mirror the post above. Watching Frankfurt is rubbing a huge amount of salt in some very sore wounds. Watching SBO was bad, this is truly awful. What I am saying is Frankfurt is the quality all of the TSW5 routes should have been. DTG really have one hell of a lot to answer for with your release of WCMLS. When will we get a commitment for when you are going to fix all of the issues raised that are wrong with WCMLS? Do I buy Frankfurt? Out of principal I definitely should not.
I'll be whatever you want me to be aslong as it keeps you quiet and makes you happy... Back on the topic of the WCML, has anyone else see the amazing detail of the stations on the Frankfurt route? The graffiti and grimey aesthetic really bring them to life. Double jealous now!
Keeping the pre-order as I can’t wait to play around with Frankfurt-Fulda. As I mentioned in another thread, the quality is what WCML(S) should have been, and given the little price difference between discounted deluxe pre-order and just buying FF+Flixtrain, it’s a no brainier. Great job on this route DTG, but quality consistency with the TSW5 core routes is all over the place.
