This is what it has come down to for me as I expected it probably would, despite the strong inclination to penalise DTG over Rivet and WCMLS. Just a pity there wasn’t an option to buy two out of the three routes at a discount. Otherwise as you say it will be £42 to buy Fulda and the Flixtrain on Day One, which only makes £12 difference to getting the whole bundle. And I’ll undoubtedly end up driving on WCML, just squint through the bad bits.
Earlier today I found I was able to preload TSW5 onto my PS5, eg everything new from the deluxe edition, I’m guessing there’s a small window ahead of the early access for those of us with it. Interestingly this evening there has already been an update file for WCML which suggests improvements are being made up to the wire, and may well still do so up to and including general release. I know this doesn’t add much to things in here but thought might be useful or interesting for someone.
Yeah, he said something about people who make TSW stuff feeling hurt about what we say about their product?
Oh.....I thought I read that on here somewhere. I will go and watch the news instead, I don't think I can stand the drama and intrigue.
Direct and candid? Yes. Brutally honest? Absolutely. These are my personal thoughts and interpretations. Fortunately, I'm not bound by any sponsorship or ambasador affiliation, allowing me to express my genuine opinions as I see fit. I understand my views may not resonate with everyone, but at the end of the day, they are mine. I have no regrets in bringing attention to these significant issues in this way, especially considering how much of the player base, beyond the forums, fails to discuss them as often as they should.
What can we make of the Frankfurt preview? How a route should be made, and the standard we should expect and DTG are capable of -VS- the WCML, with how it shouldn't be made...
Yeah, you are off the Christmas card list that's for sure. Good job on the video, hope you don't mind me sharing?
Yes but I can live with that, I assumed they would as they tend to float down the roads. It does look weird but I will just not look too closely at them.
Only TSW channel I take seriously in all honesty. Can see your channel growing big time with your approach.
I would say so, it looked how you would expect a recent DTG route to be like. Lots of interesting traffic was seen.
Matt is also quick to point out when the teams have worked very hard on something. Shouldn’t this be what they’re doing all the time? I presume they’re being paid handsomely for the work that they do. If the staff at DTG are hurt by negative feedback, they need to turn that energy into something positive and push back on the management forcing them to deliver substandard quality. Nothing will ever change otherwise. Failing that, if they can’t take negative feedback, they might want to avoid the forums or find a different line of work. As a bus driver, I am often spoken to like LOVE, just for insisting that someone has to pay the £2 ‘subsidised’ fare to travel or because I’m running late due to traffic. This is face to face interaction with only a screen door as protection. Fortunately, I don’t allow it to get to me because I love the job.
The last thread that was locked was loaded with claims by forums users, just speculation of course, but the post from Alex over on discord did officially confirm rivets involvement on the route. Not sure on the specifics of what they (rivet) did/did not work on though.
Search the forums, or ask DTG Alex. He posted it on discord. It wasn’t officially posted on the forums for some reason.
Yes you do. Play WCML North, or WCML over Shap on TSC with a class 86 and class 87, and you will learn just how much better older AC locomotives are with proper working neutral sections. They are a completely different beast, compared to these modern one-handle EMUs.
Well, at least the German rail fans are taken care of, I am just gonna go and sulk in corner for a while
Just looking at Frankfurt compared to the WCML really grinds my gears. Worse thing is you can probably do way more than fulda with the ice1. That is how you build up a route. It’s a shame we got shafted hard considering how much of an improvement the TSC version was
Yeah, Matt, Alex, Jd can only do a certain amount in the position they are in, they are only employees and if they moan too much or cause problems, a company is not shy in pointing out where the front door is. Higher management in DTG or Focus are dictating terms, the only one thing higher than that is.......?
Just shows how unprofessional they think, at the end of the day, it is just business. They make a product, we buy a product, if the product quality is poor we will complain, there is learning to be had, are we not allowed to complain? Nobody is on here to hurt people's feeling.
Yeah, don't be holding out for DTG promises to fix things, it could be months and months and even then
I've said this a few times, so I apologise if I sound like a broken record... But the 'feel sorry for me' routine line we were spun from DTG is starting to wear thin with me quite honestly. All I seem to be hear from DTG at the moment is them calling out the players for the completely valid criticism they are making. They are quite happy to call out forum members and openly tell us it hurts the team who have worked hard on the routes? But they are not willing to call out Rivets quite frankly disgraceful workmanship openly which is what should actually be happening? If I call out a builder to do a job in my house such as a rebuilding a bathroom for example, and they do a poor job, and initially I give them a friendly message to let them know further work needs doing to bringing to a acceptable standard, and they ignore it, and then I lose my rag. If the builder turn round told me I'd hurt his feelings I would say, "Are you being bloody serious? How many times have I tried telling you... ". Why should this be any different for a digital product? Let's just make this clear, I can see how much hard work has gone into the American route it looks really good, and I can see how much hard work has gone into the German route from tonight's stream and I'm thoroughly impressed to say the least. But the ugly duckling is the WCML, and why do I think that it? Because it doesn't look or feel like DTGs work or standards. It falls foul of TSW4 standards let alone TSW5 standards. Not for a second do I believe it is a DTG built route. I know how hard DTG work on there routes and this does not feel like one of them... If Rivets developers are getting upset quite frankly they've brought it on themselves, this is not because of a SINGLE event. With shoddy work comes very harsh criticism. I don't know what has been said behind the scenes, but I hope Rivet have been given a dressing down behind close doors. For the player a simple acknowledgement of "a third party developer was initially trusted and fell short of standards and we promise to bring this upto our established standards we expect" would be open and sufficient, rather then turning on the players, viewers and forum members for their valid scrutiny. I don't need to repeat myself as all the criticism of past and current issues has been discussed to death in this thread. I respect all your staff. I respect all of DTGs work. Do not get that twisted, but this whole scenario needs to be a harsh lesson. I understand how hard the work has gone in to TSW5, but you can not be angry because the UK element has flopped for reasons that have nothing to do with the player and all to do with the developer. Tomorrow is another day, and I hope the developers get the positive and well deserved feed back for the other routes, that is well deserved. And I hope this whole scenario works out for everyone involved. And I'm sure in time we can see IF (and I emphasise IF) promises are kept and updates are implemented, what a fantastic route this could become. If the commitments that have been made and are kept to, along with some other much needed post launch updates in the coming months, this could easily be transformed into one of the best routes in the entire game. Look at SEHS? It's a TSW3 route and it still flourishing from the accuracy and rich and busy timetable. If you can see that, then imagine what the WCML South could be like given some extra love... There is time yet, and we all know DTG are completely capable of this. Just don't let other developers tarnish or lay their hands on it if they can't meet the standards. So best wishes to DTG, and no hard feelings, but it's down to you to sort it out and bring this in house if it isn't already? What more can anyone say?
I hate to stir the pot and come over all tin foil hat, but if the other two routes are of a decent standard does this mean that Rivet have made a route and then DTG have been trying to ship it out to us without being completely honest about who's made it? I would really hope DTG wouldn't go that low As lot of us won't buy Rivet content for a whole list of good reasons. So please don't try and sell us Rivet content under a DTG flag in the hopes we all will throw our money at it. Disclaimer: This is not an attack on individuals etc. This is a genuine concern/problem with the quality of product being sold
With Frankfurt looking great and San Bernardino looking pretty good, and....then there's Rivet's attempt. Does DTG just not have 3 dedicated route teams? That would explain quite a bit.
I think the way DTG presented wcml, they let us assume it was 100% their work, so they haven't lied as such, but DTG certainly have been very economical with the truth. And that is not good for installing trust in a company. Plus imagine the mess to try and fix the wcml with another company involved.
For those asking about the rivet confirmation The Frankfurt route looks fantastic. If only the same level of project management and quality control went into the WCML instead of subcontracting it to a company not up to the job.
Subcontracting isn't the problem, there are wings of planes, hospital sections, warships etc. the list goes on with things that we use in everyday life and there isn't a problem because the works are monitored and quality controlled to ensure what is being made is what is wanted and it is fit for purpose, wcml is not fit for purpose. So either DTG didn't monitor the project as it went along and what ended up being created was sub parr or DTG didn't quality control it before signing off on and both I find impossible for a company to do, so what went wrong? The list of what is wrong with wcml is mind boggling, there is no way that should have got past quality control. And now DTG have to either get the subcontractor to fix it or they themselves have to fix it and I am sure this wasn't in DTG long term business plan, so this will impact other projects if they have to get involved. Being smart and clever has come back to bite DTG, cutting corners never works.
The stream of frankfurt - fulda yesterday impressed me, at least into the german content a lot of effort was going into. However here to say if Rivet had their hands on TSW5, i have to pass on buying and will skip a core iteration of a new TSW the first time. Im enjoying my current dlcs a lot and can wait 7- 8 months to buy Tsw5 on sale, and the good dlcs full price.
Good video, lots of information, delivered in a concise manner. As you say, honest feedback. They need to hear it, get past the hurt and fix the many listed issues. Its nothing personal.
Exactly the same as me. I've learnt patience too, and though I was really looking forward to it, unfortunately once I knew rivet were involved I understood why it's such a rushed mess and why the LO has been decimated. I've got plenty of drives in both TSW and TSC to keep me going for ages, plus I play lots of other games - the secret is never to be so desperate for something that you buy it regardless. I shall sit back, grab some popcorn and watch the party unfold on here.
Yes it's like watching some pottery class with two experts and a pupil. The first two are in total control of their creation whilst the third's pot comes out pretty useless and wonky. When will they learn from past mistakes?
Well said. During the time is was watching the stream I asked in chat for a 'Night Time Run' on two occasions but after two hours of seeing with my own eyes just how good Frankfurt is in comparison to WCMLS I had had enough. Later before bed I went back and skipped through the last hour to see if they had include some night scenes, and yes they had at 2 hours 56 minutes. One of the German guys said we've had some requests for some night time views. Listen to, and watch this section again for yourselves. The Night scenes are good, anything lit with a down light has soft edges, the time set was 23:00 and the sky was not pitch black. The buildings had variable light tones, Street lighting has a soft glow. Now, DTG tell me that there is nothing wrong with the night scenes in WCMLS, that nothing can be done, that it is acceptable. What you can bring to Frankfurt, you can bring to WCMLS.
Yes apologies I did mean the project management on DTGs side, as well as rivets, hadn't had my morning coffee at that point!
But at least the black sheep has friends, wcml is Billy no mates. Did you know friends are Gods way of apologising for family
No, remember the folks at DTG have sensitive ears, we must be quiet, now where did I put that pot and spoon
