People like some one to blame and gang up on I guess. Gotta feel sorry for the guy really. Obviously put a lot of work into it and just gets abused for it.
I must agree, the speed signs really are something that don't fail to frustrate me. It can't be a massive job to sort them out.
the irony. They have TfL posters with the right font across the entire route and then go and use UE4 default font on the station names. If this isn’t the most rivet thing ever
I have said my piece on the topic of Rivet, who, just as a note, are a company not a single 'guy', at some point (possibly in the one that were locked) and honestly I do think this route shouts Rivet, but I don't actually care who made it, there are errors with it and these need correcting.
You can definitely see rivet have had a hand in it. I know it's a company just like dtg, but I see post after post referring to rivet as him. It's a personal attack. I've called out dtg many times, as a company. I've never aimed it at a individual employee, well I don't think so anyway. As I've said previously, dtg have the final say on the product. As a company they could have stepped in at any time. And made it better.
On a positive note. I intend to go home after work and have a play on wcml. I'm quite looking forward to it I must say. Then on to San bernardino. It's a good thing I've moved premises recently and haven't built an office yet, otherwise no work would have got done today!
Well I for one am disappointed. This thread told me that the lack of branding would break immersion but I've barely noticed it! This thread told me that the timetable would break immersion but I've happily played what I'm given! This thread told me that I would be disappointed that I couldn't drive to Rugby, Birmingham or Fort William but I'm not! I would like to thank those who freely offered consumer advice on what we should or shouldn't do with our money. A career at Which? surely awaits. Seriously though, the route is not without issues but I have been enjoying it so far. Right, I'm off to investigate why there's no hot water in the house. I think the immersion is broken...
I guess the moral of the story is... take opinions with a pinch of salt. And don't always assume that because someone says it is, it actually is.
Glad you're enjoying it. Hopefully the continued efforts of the rest of us striving to make it better and better are succesful so that we all can do so in the future.
So, it seems like Rivet participated in the dev of the scenery, lighting, Class 350 and the timetable, that can explain the horrible scenery and the empty timetable, since Rivet always mess up with scenery and timetable. While 390 are dev by DTG, which has a higher quality and better physics. WCMLS could be and should be the flagship of modern UK route, with a busy timetable like BML or SEHS, however, what we received is a broken product with horrible scenery, empty timetable, and many other issues and bugs. They even said they are happy to see the current nighttime lighting and currently they can do nothing about timetable. In my opinion, this level of product should not be released at all. It reminds me of the FCL, which also has serious scenery and timetable issues, and we are still waiting the levenmouth link and the timetable update promised by Rivet. Fortunately, some members in this fourm spent their own time and efforts making a competely new timetable and a major enhancement pack for FCL, which significantly improved its gameplay experience. I don't know if they would make a new timetable and an enhancement pack for WCMLS, but it's developers' responsibilty to improve their products and they can't just sit and wait some enthusiasts to clean up the mess they made. Maybe DTG and Rivet would gradually improve it like what Skyhook have done to MML, but only time can tell us what would happen.
But by buying TSW5, and *shock horror* enjoying it, you've personally ensured that DTG have free reign to produce products that are actually fun to play by some proportion of people, now and forever! I hope you can reflect on what you have done
If you’re willing to accept a substandard route that barely meets the standards of a TSW2 route, then be my guest. DTG probably love customers like you because they can take your money with half the effort.
The weird thing is, they actually did create some really nice LU speed signs for Bakerloo when it came out a few years back, correct font etc.I thought great, we're actually going to get updated speed signs for the rest of UK rail.....I thought wrong.
Each to their own, not everyone wants to have a route that has as many glaring issues as this route does. MKC is a bad endpoint because the 390 barely has any proper action south of there but go off I guess. Can’t judge people for willingly sitting with mediocrity
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my post. I like a good Volvo too, although recent models lack the character of the Amazon and 240/260. Not up to the latest standards but does the job.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my post. MKC as those in the industry refer to it is a little short for the 390 but plenty long enough for the 350.
Tis the way its been for years! I remember playing my old mega drive, if I wasn't happy about the quality of a game, well I could send them a letter and get no response! Be grateful dtg do actually have a forum and take some of our suggestions on board.
A good chunk of 350 services run fast to Milton Keynes tbh so it negates it a little bit. Rugby would have ultimately been better off
This thread hasn’t told you how to feel at all, so stop acting like it’s somehow anyone’s fault that they give constructive criticism on a route that so obviously needs it. Sure, if you can find happiness in a route boasting a very lacking timetable, very broken features (some of which have been around since tsw 2!) and a very clearly rushed quality then go ahead, but your inability to care about a quality experience doesn’t mean others won’t notice the obvious. Fact is that TSW is a train simulator, meaning to immerse you in the belief you are actually driving on that route in real life, and all the aforementioned and lots more are huge immersion killers that take you out of gameplay, and for a staggering £54 pounds to play in a route that was advertised as “busy” and talked up as a quality product feels at the very least underwhelming. Like I said, if you can deal with that, go ahead, it’s ur money, but don’t come in here acting like people told u what to think
Tbh I don’t, I don’t think they are bad developers, when they are given products within their capabilities they do great at it, I seem to remember that the Bernina line was actually well received despite people being ready to blitz it. But if it is true that DTG gave timetable work to Rivet, I’m sorry but they are both gonna take warranted backlash. It should be obvious by now that whenever they are given heavy projects that carry a proper weight to the timetable they fumble. On E2G they had some leverage to say it’s not our fault a little as they didn’t have a proper scotrail dmu, but when fife came there was no excuse. Barely any ai with the 385 at Edinburgh, no use of the main depot for the 170s and they flat out missed the entire Cowdenbeath service pattern! IF dovetail did actually outsource that work to them however then they should get the criticism really, what I’ve said here should be obvious to experienced developers
But reality is factual, meaning we can devise a baseline for immersion based out of what is meant to be there, so if for example a 4tph service with the 710s to Watford has big gaps in that timetable, we can reference what actually occurs in reality and base immersion from what didn’t happen in the sim that did in real life
Again, immersion is subjective, and by that very definition cannot have a baseline I am immersed in the driving of a train in the cab stopping at stations picking up passengers You are immersed by counting the number of trains that pass you Not everyone is equal, and different people find themselves immersed by different things - this is a fact
Fair enough, would have added Northampton Loop and Daventry. But then someone would have wanted an extension to Coventry, Birmingham, Soho Depot, Crewe, Holyhead and a Bryan Ferry all the way to Ireland!
Have a look at the speed limit signs on the Bakerloo Line and the East Coastway. Then compare to routes in and after Rush Hour. We used to have the correct font, but it changed for development ease.
But your perfectly fine with certain members of of this forum near enough telling people what they should and shouldn't be spending their own money on, just because they don't like the company that made this game....... Clearly sarcasm isn't a language you speak fluently, unlike some of us here......
Be nice folks. If you're enjoying it - hurray! If you're not, that's unfortunate, but that's fine too! Nobody's wrong here unless you're trying to tell others what they enjoy. Chill out and play trains, whether it's this route or another. Matt.
People have literally said "don't buy this product because I don't like it", then proceeded to attack those who dare go against them.
Hi Alfie, Thank you for your comprehensive reply to my post. My comments were very much tongue in cheek, hey I even remembered the smiley for once! No one here influenced my decision to buy or not to buy. And immersion means different things to different people and coming from the era of Southern Belle on the Spectrum 48k perhaps my standards are a little lower than some people. Anyway, happy to agree to disagree, enjoy your weekend!
There’s a reason this dlc isn’t called “some busy line” or “line that happens to have a lot of traffic”, it’s because this dlc is called the WCML, because it’s called that we can take that this is a line trying to simulate immersion on the west coast mainline. If it was called anything else and didn’t reference the area and just said “some busy line” I wouldnt fight it, honestly this line is busy, but that’s not what I paid for, neither anyone else, they paid for the west coast mainline. Your right, immersion is subjective, we can all be immersed in different ways by different things, but we are all here to comment on one point of immersion that isn’t living up to it’s potential, the west coast main line, and we are all here to share criticism as to why that immersion isn’t something we feel. If others have found other outlooks of immersion they didn’t pay for but are getting, then cool, the one we payed for is however is a recreation of the west coast mainline, not a half attempt at what it might be like
One thought, since Class 730s are being introduced on the WCML right now may that be the reason DTG didn't feel the need to have more than 30 350s in the long run, since if that gets made as an add on there would be 730s and 350s, after the /2s are withdrawn there will only be 20 additional 350 numbers that we don't already have. A 730 pack could also layer onto the BCC, so it would be a bit of a 2 in 1 expansion.
Makes me wonder if the gaps in the 710 timetable are in anticipation for another London Overground line including a 378 to layer in. I think 378s are still the primary traction on the Watford DC? Edit: I found a drivers eye view from 2023, never mind its all 710s.
Unfortunately you undermine your entire post by using the word "we". While there are others here that share your viewpoint, there are also a sizeable amount of others present that do not. Discussing what you don't find immersive is of course absolutely fine, but everyone here is not part of some hivemind that dictates one opinion is better or worse than another. You find that the fact the timetable does not reflect real life immersion-breaking. I do not. My opinion is not better than yours, and your opinion is not better than mine, it is simply different, and that is also a fact
True, it irritates me a tad, knowing the route is generally going to be a bit of a boring green light fest until the extra layers arrive to give signalling variety.
If your standards are a bit lower that’s totally fine, I get just enjoying the other parts like the pendo u know? All I’m saying is that for something that’s advertised as a recreation there’s nothing wrong with being critical of something u bought and then saying “hey that doesn’t feel right”, and while it may not be a dealbreaker for some, for others it’s not really fair they pay for a level of immersion only to not get it. I do get what u mean for example on the branding, but I’m more fine with it not being there because it wasn’t a failure in production as much as it was unlucky, for that one I’ll give it to DTG, I don’t know if they could’ve foreseen an operator pulling their permission at the last minute! For everything else however it just screams rushed, and while yes it’s not gamebreaking or unplayable, the hype of owning a line that is prompting a new line to built solely to take traffic off of this line only for it to be half finished is a hard pill to swallow. Appreciate your kind tone btw, never know how these posts will go!
While I haven't looked, by chance does the tube route mirror the original Bakerloo timetable? I ask due to two observations: 1. A lot of services terminate Queens Park from the underground section, my assumption is these may not be present as AI 2. The OG Bakerloo timetable was quiet too, and the one that your hero and mine Joe made is much much busier
Just finished the first Journey Scenario at Watford Jn. Couldn't wait to get back in the 390 this time for a run to MKC.
