Was it just a timetable run equivalency again? I really do wish all scenarios had some event or unusual circumstance occurring them
While I didn’t write we assuming that’s what everyone wanted, I took we from just making a simple assumption, which is that people wanted a realistic product. If that’s not an opinion held by others then that’s ok, but this thread even being here shows that there is interest in presenting feedback, and a sizeable amount of posts made in at least two separate forums spanning lots of pages in each have given lots of feedback to big aspects about this route linking to immersion, so you could say I made a judgement that there is a lot of discontent with at the very least how realistic this route is to the real thing. You are right that my opinion does not trump others no the other way around, but my point wasn’t that my opinion is king compared to others, my point is that a very large amount of people at some level are dissatisfied with the route, an assumption I’m making based on the amount of pages of threads, a poll made literally asking about wether the timetable should be fixed and dovetail themselves responding to this feedback saying they will do something about some of the concerns, in which they listed what they’d be fixing. While yes, you are right that some may not consider the above immersion breaking, considering the overwhelming amount of feedback which would go against that opinion (not making it true) I’d say it’s more likely that people are taking the lack of reality with the timetable badly, which really why should’t they? Anyway ima tap out for a bit, my hound needs walking lol
Unrelated to the discussion, but if you're going to make a post as long as this one, some paragraphs wouldn't go amiss.
The problem with using "we" in the context that you did, is that it feeds the egos of those who shout the loudest on these forums (and there are a lot of shouters). This amplfies the perception that anyone that doesn't kowtow to their line of thinking is at best wrong, and at worst inferior. Unfortunately you are also guilty of this with your usage of the "lower standards" in another post. We are all playing the same game, and as with opinions, "standards" are different for every individual here. One's position on what they deem as acceptable (their "standard") does not make it lower/worse or higher/better than another person's. Enjoy the walk
First Journey is a scenario where you take a 390 ECS into Euston then work a special train to Watford, but other than a few messages nothing out of the ordinary - no Emily Turner or anything!
As usual you find a way to talk twaddle. Might as well make fictional routes if it doesn’t matter if everything isnt proper and correct, there’s no need to advertise it as a sim either.
Ah was this the 390 journey rather than the route journey? Nice that they have multiple units (I assume) in one scenario, but does sound like it could be beefed up a bit On an Emily Turner related note, has anyone come across any AI voices yet, and if so how are they? Are we talking Amiga Narrator style or the stunted Google maps voice, or perhaps something completely different?
Ah dear Freddie (I’m guessing you are a corrie fan) reality does indeed exist, and I’m looking forward to not investing in tsw for a while. I’ll let you little lot take the hit and I’ll pick it up as and when it’s at the quality required.
And I hope you enjoy it, whatever shortcomings it may have! Unfortunately I am also not purchasing it, but I will enjoy (hopefully) the new core features that make their way into old routes when the free version arrives
Likewise ref your post above about the free update (im loath to call it an upgrade as I havent seen anything that suggests it is one), but I thought the context of standards interesting, so heres my take on it. If there's problems like lighting, floating cars, glowing carriages etc that even DTG have acknowledged as problems, then we can safely say that they are indicators of poor quality. It depends on how ferociously one wants to defend mediocrity I suppose, but I think a better product that resolves these issues is possible, and thus worthwhile pursuing as a goal.
I dont think anyone is defending the individual things you mentioned (which indeed, are poor and shouldn't have been missed), but individually and grouped together, do not make a product mediocre. There are (at least) two measures of quality here; the standard by which it is judged compared to previous products (eg. did a previous route have glowing objects? If not, then the older route on that metric is better), and one's own personal standard (eg. Do I like the number of services on the route? Yes/no/don't care as appropriate) If a product meets one's own standard, then that is all that matters. Equally, if it doesn't, that is also all that matters. What does matter, is that people should not be criticising others for not aligning with their own standards. I have strong negative feelings towards ready salted crisps (honestly they're the devil's own spawn) but I don't judge other people for liking them
Strongly agree. I hope I dont do that. I try not to. Ref the quality thing- I try to judge the individual product against the mean of the output thus far, adding in personal immersion breakers. It is subjective after all. Trying to make it better is my main reason for frequenting these forums, plus the entertainment value of course. Point 2- ridged ready salted are yummy, especially with a dip
Yh I probably shouldn’t have used “we”, doesn’t leave a lot of room i get it, I’ll leave my wees at the toilet I guess. As for the logic of standards I get very obviously that one’s standards is different to another’s, but by that logic we could never say that a standard of content is bad, no matter how subjectively bad it is. For example, while I understand that standards may vary from person to person, there still should be a standard in place that most can accept is a logical one, like saying (totally random example) that a timetable that isn’t literally “complete” should be up to a standard of completion. Yes I know this falls under the logic of “what timetable is complete, because that is subjective” but I hold the standard that at least on the working timetable of this line that there should be a rough if not exact result to that working timetable. Again if others are fine working with a timetable that to them is “up to standard”, then sure have at it, but I have a feeling (not definite, some opinions may differ) that a lot of people may agree that incomplete things qualify as lacking of standard. Again, I know, subjective, im willing to be wrong here, but we have had two threads each spanning very far, a thread with a poll that had a 96 percent to 4 percent in favour of DTG making the timetable complete (might be wrong, so check cause that might not be 100 percent) and a response from dovetail in which they spoke about fixes and about the timetable, so again I’ll take a radical judgement that my “opinion” MIGHT be shared by other members who hold a possibly similar standard I did enjoy it btw, my dogs basically a teddy bear so he’s way too cute, he has a weird appetite for chocolate tho so I have no chocolate now
Working backwards... Other people do indeed share your standard with specific regard to the timetable, but equally there are others that don't. By contrast, when comparing to a real world timetable, the in-game one can, by virtue of having a literal standard (the real world timetable) to compare against, can objectively be stated to be incomplete. However: whether that incompleteness is a factor in one's own personal standard (insomuch as whether it affects their enjoyment of the game) is personal choice, and is neither right nor wrong, good nor bad Lastly, I should point out that your postings seem to be hung up on the number of people that agree with your opinions (same applies to other people posting in here), and it comes across as seeking validation from peers. There are people that agree with you, this is a fact. There are those who dont. But, it doesnt matter. Your opinion is your own, and is equally as important as anyone else's here. What matters is how its presented, both in articulation and with respect; and not trying to force it down others throats as the only opinion that matters
‘Early Access’ as DTG describe it…whats their definition? A. Play the game early or B. Game is not ready but one can still play… :p
I heard Steam updated Vern's Steam client such that it no longer has a refund button for any product at all
My point is not to seek validation, nor to say my opinion means more. My point is that given the amount of people that share similar concern, it is something that very obviously a lot of people have a problem with, the amount of which I have specified to show this is not a unique perception, not to say it is somehow a better one. It is perfectly possible to be in the minority of an opinion and still have an opinion heard. My point is not based on power of point, nor to say one means more than the other, but to simply show a factual amount of people all sharing a similar standard of quality to their product, and to say that it should be worked on, because if everyone was afraid to say their opinion on what a standard of content is because that standard could conflict with another persons standard, then company’s would never be able to learn what made a product untouchable for some. AGAIN, to reiterate, it doesn’t mean the opinion of quality is more or less valid, but a standard at some level needs to be had to not let developers do what they want because subjectively they think their content is great and everyone else’s opinion doesn’t matter because they think its fine. The whole point of feedback is to hear opinions, regardless of wether minority or majority, but at some point they have to listen to a majority cause that’s how games are sold, on feedback and listening, not saying nothing matters and that their can’t really be a standard to a game because its subjective to everyone. Also, don’t know why you are arguing that because someone else thinks it isn’t complete that it isn’t complete, there is such a thing as fact, and the fact is there is a working timetable used for this area. I get the point of “that doesn’t mean it’s a bad or good thing”, but generally something being incomplete isn’t good. I didn’t think it was actually somehow a bad thing to say a timetable isn’t complete, but lemme say again, it isn’t complete. Not because of a personal standard, but because of a factual timetable that when compared doesn’t match. That’s not subjective, it is a fact that these two timetables don’t match up, and it is a fact that this means that the timetable it is imitating is incomplete! And regardless of whether or not people enjoy it, something being incomplete is not a good thing, pretty much ever! Now please for the love of god stop arguing about subjective and who’s to say what’s really complete, because its not helping the feedback at all, and ngl if this ur approach to every person who has something to say about this I don’t know why you are in this thread, cause its pointless
The best way I find, is to fully respect and agree their views are totally valid, then let them know you will totally ignore said view and not care about anything they have to say, because the only view that matters is my own, all in a very polite witty manner as is my style......
Im not quite sure who's post you replied to here, but it wasn't mine... But yes, you're correct, your walls of text and my well-written replies are at an end, since I have no wish to converse with someone who can't be bothered to read my posts correctly, nor with someone who attempts to tell me what to do. I hope your walk was rubbish
Everyone’s opinions matter, but feedback needs to be taken seriously. An incomplete timetable can be enjoyed, but it doesn’t mean it’s good that it’s like that. An incomplete building can be lived in, people who live there can be fine with that, but in the end, regardless of minority or majority, the building falls, the overall point be that having something incomplete isn’t a good thing, if u wanna make it subjective go ahead and sit in the building, still gonna topple regardless. And eventually devs will look on the feedback. It’s not a case of whose opinions matter more, its what reasons do they have, do others share similar perspective, does the point have logic etc. Eventually dovetail has to make a judgement on what to do based on feedback, and regardless of each opinion having weight, the points that make the most sense to the developer will be used to develop a response. All I’m saying is what’s the point of being in a feedback thread when every point is discarded as being subjective?
I fully respect your view, and it is a perfectly valid one, but I will totally ignore your view and not care about anything you have to say, because the only viewpoint that matters is my own, and all of the previous text was written by me and me alone with no influence whatsoever from mr nuggets
It was actually really nice, mainly cause I didn’t have people tell me how everything is subjective and nothing matters while arguing in a feedback thread. If ur gonna be rude though fine, not surprised that’s the last defence. Tbh I think your points make sense, I just don’t get why then that you’re here, unless your juggling the idea of buying it on feedback that is subjective also never told u to do anything, just asked if u could stop pointlessly arguing that feedback doesn’t matter in a feedback thread. Anyway have a fun life arguing with anyone, sounds like its a fun existence you lead!
I bought the Deluxe pack and, frankly, quite enjoying it. Well apart from having to download my DLC in bite size chunks...
I'm sorry but people here trying to talk up a sub standard product where Overground services are cut from 4 an hour to just one every 90 minutes are wearing the thickest of rose tinted spectacles, in addition they just don't have a clue of how busy the real WCML is. They don't want simulation they want fictional-ation. It's fine they are entitled to their opinion, but what sort of message does it send to lazy developers? How about "phew we got away with, we can do it again", that's what.
Got to say I have been having fun and like I said in another thread, first thing to do was put Pacers in London Euston.
I'm sorry but everyone is entitled to their opinions. This ain't some dictatorship where everyone has to think the same.
I for one welcome our new overlords masteralfie#7803 , locobilly , addry#6825 and warpshell (but only because they'll scowl at us exceedingly hard if we don't)
It’s not, and I laugh at people who instead of just hearing feedback for what it is just say how everything is subjective, how basically nothing matters and also everything matters and how apparently other opinions aren’t allowed even though its literally a feedback thread. Also, anyone have actual feedback besides whining?
It's anecdotal, but out of dozens of people I know playing TSW 5, the strong majority are loving it...especially the WCML. The WCML has gotten the highest marks, followed by SBD then Frankfurt. Oddly I kind of figured from the comments pre-release that it'd be the opposite order. Weird.
I mean fair point, but these are the people who didn’t cancel their pre order after the stream or after the timetable announcement, I don’t have the numbers so I won’t take a guess at which way it leans, but I had to bet…
Yet all I see is people calling others out for daring to like something they don't. That isn't feedback.
Really enjoying my time with this so far. Despite the missing services (and no 710 appearing for me until Tuesday as I’m on Xbox) it doesn’t feel quiet or empty. Don’t find the night lighting as bad as has been stated either. Only briefly played with the 350 but the 390 is just superb. The tilt combined with the suspension make it incredibly immersive and the interior looks spot on.
The rolling stock is getting high marks. The signage too. No stuttering. People are appreciating the new track shadows. The only complaints I've seen so far (from people who have actually played TSW 5) would be the guard mode being a bit touchy and the passenger issues. (Some trains aren't spawning them and other times they seem to sink into the platform leaving just their heads visible)
Add me to the list of people having a great time with WCML, way more interesting and variety than ECML.
Having just done my first run from MKC to Euston in a 350 I will say that it is a lot better than I was expecting. I chose a rush hour service, it was pre 9am going into Euston. There was more traffic than I expected, especially north of Watford. Plenty of Pendolinos in both directions, a fair amount of 350's, although predominantly 4 car set which I know is not realistic so hopefully that can be altered. There was even a 710 at Watford and I passed two on the way from Watford to Euston. I only saw one Bakerloo train though. I did not pass one moving freight train. I did pass a 377 too. I suspect you could pick another service and it would be less busy. The timetable therefore for me is probably the main issue still, although this service was quite busy. The 350 looks good and sounds like it should from my experience of them, except for some reason the track joint sounds were quiet to inaudible at the beginning of the journey, however for the last few miles they seemed to be more audible. It isn't the most detailed route, not compared to Blackpool or the Suffragette line but it certainly in my view isn't a TSW2 standard route. I feel there is room for more detailing along the lineside in places. Willesden was fairly empty, maybe that is better for performance I don't know. Overall the route ran surprisingly smooth considering it was the first time I ran it. I didn't notice any funny skies although there was some of the funky tunnel flashes which I believe are being sorted. I do hope they fix the issue with the off map destinations on the trains PIS as that is an immersion breaker. Overall I would say it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected and if they can fill the timetable out, especially the DC lines timetable it will be a very good route. I enjoyed my first drive on it.
