For those of us that have now bought the WCMLS, it will come as no surprise that the Overground (and Underground) part of the timetable is somewhat.. unique. For those living under a rock: there are 90 minute gaps between clusters of 3 services, which in reality is far from accurate. As far as I am aware, no real information or explanation has been shared about why this is (although I haven’t read every post in every thread since launch - so happy to be proven wrong here). I thought I’d put this thread up anyway, as a way to speculate as to why the timetable is the way it is, and to hopefully gain a little more understanding of why it has ultimately happened! My initial theories: 1. Time - maybe the pressure of delivering a yearly titular release is too heavy on resources and once a deadline comes, whatever progress is made, is final. A shame if true! 2. The WCML South and Overground/Underground timetables are two separate entities, made by separate developers/studios that essentially don’t compute with one another. Maybe the 90 minute gaps are scripted into the timetable to ensure that the WCML South timetable doesn’t clog up too much, and vice versa. After all, the two separate networks here bottle neck on Euston.. maybe this reason, and time to figure out the gaps properly, have resulted in this forced separation of the two timetables. 3. Platform issues at Euston - similar to theory 2 here, but maybe the brain that allocates platforms isn’t smart enough to plan ahead, and the AC/DC dual voltage platforms were always being populated by AC units rather than being saved, and prioritised for the DC stuff. Perhaps a 15 minute frequency was just enough to tip this platform allocation brain over the edge and nuke the smooth flow of arrivals / departures.
I reckon there's a few modders out there working on a much more accurate timetable that will put the original to shame. If they hit technical problems, then fair enough, but if they don't and manage to create a near real life TT then it says it all about DTG/Rivet or whoever created the original TT. Time will tell........
I remember talk of separate time tables being impossible on one route when people was asking for mergers? How is this possible all of a sudden. Thameslink was also said to be impossible on bml! It's been done by a modder. I'm gonna throw in my guess and say dtg may have run into a few issues with the timetable, and didn't have time to fix it so just abandoned it.
It would be nice to have someone from DTG comment on the choices that were made during creation of this (in my opinion) horrendous timetable. Is it intentional or is it simply broken DTG Alex ? I am specifically dissapointed about the lack of services on the DC lines.
AFAIK there is no dynamic replatforming in TSW, it’s up to the timetable planner to keep a flow chart of occupancy with a little bit of wiggle room for late running. As it stands, most times of the day, only going to have one DC Line train at a time in the station with a few minutes turn round before going back, so it ought to be possible to just dedicate one platform to the service.
I’ll hopefully be able to debunk some of my aforementioned ‘theories’ later this evening. Blocking all DC platforms at both ends, as a unit is due to arrive, to see how the system handles the ‘clog’..
Issue isnt platforms you are correct. All Lioness line services go to platform 9 at Euston. It is basically their private platform. I've got all Lioness 710 services made and working in my timetable im currently working on.
That was quick. That would suggest then that there were time constraints as surely you wouldn't just leave out a load of services without reason.. Your excellent FCL timetable and the graphics enhancements was what made me buy the route.
Honestly they must have built it in a really weird way. I buit the 710 bit train by train. So its 8 710s to do all of them. To have a 90 minute gap you would have to only do two trains, but they have done more than that. I have no idea how they ended up with 90 minute gaps. The 710s are probably the easiest part of the whole timetable other than the 377s, took me about three days in my free time. So it might be console memory or something rather than time constraints.
I’ll be shedding tears on my console later! Although in theory if I spawned more 710’s, and had 8 in total during a regular timetable operation, would that conclude at all if the system can’t handle the full load? Or would they all need to be operating and pulling more processing power from the console hardware? Any tips on how to debunk the ‘console could be the reason’ rumour - I’d be happy to help with!
I don't think it is memory. When making BML for Xbox One and PS4, DTG didn't reduce the number of Southern services of Gatwick Express services, but did cut out Southeastern, GWR, and probably freight in their entirety. This left those consoles with only two unique pieces of rolling stock, but well over 1000 services. DTG said back then that adding a new piece of rolling stock occupied much more memory than adding 1000 more 377 services. Now that we have the West Coast Mainline, those consoles again have only 2 unique trains, but a full timetable using those trains (like in London Commuter). This should mean having all 710s in the timetable shouldn't use more memory than having just 2. It's not console. I still believe it is time (although I may change my stance on that after thinking about Fawx's experience some more).
Well.. I had spawned 3 710’s at Watford, 1 at Willesden Junction and 1 in Euston, and just as I was about to spawn another this message pops up. I can’t even spawn a 350, 390 or anything else. Used a Series S!
That's free roam, though, which, for some reason, uses more memory than there are commas in this sentence. Nice of them to prevent out of memory errors, though!
Does that make a difference to anything then? This ‘limit’ message appeared after I spawned 5 710’s, there’s 3 operating a service, 3 parked at Willesden and then 6 nearby at Wembley. That’s 17 Overground units in game until the Series S ‘limit’ message appears, so it really isn’t a case of the consoles can’t handle it.. more of a ‘that’ll do’. I also debunked the platform allocation theory I had, and both ends of the route the signalling brain just held the approaching ai units at danger, until either a bay at Watford Junction was free (I hoped I could trick it to take the link with the fast lines - but no!) or platforms 9 or 10 at Euston were free (I tried blocking 9’s approach which had a possible non-dc loop workaround - but again the signalling brain held it at danger until the blockage was removed), So it’s fairly conclusive that platform conflict issues isn’t a problem, and neither is lack of memory (or available 710 units).
I think (I could be wrong) that Free Roam uses more memory than making a timetable. I don't have an Xbox, so can't check to see if actual Free Roam without the timetable (on an empty map) allows more trains, but I don't think it will. I think if I was wrong, I'd have been corrected by now, though.
We Need likely 8 Class 710 for the whole Route only 4 Trains each Hour from Euston and 4 Trains from Watford
You should send DTG your 710 Timetable for using for all Plattform for PC and Console. It would be stupid if they Said no. Liam and Joe has no time for it yet, and we Need This fix for all Plattforms This Year
My guess would be time constraint as the Lioness Line and Suffragette Line are basically the same. The same rolling stock (710), the same service pattern (4tph) and the same basic track layout. Starting at a single bay platform (Gospel Oak/Euston) to multiple bay platforms (Barking Riverside/Watford Junction) running on mostly dedicated track. So if it works on one, it should work on the other.
The only difference I would have thought might affect it is the interaction with other trains at Euston which of course is rather larger than Gospel Oak. However it appears that isn't the case.
Frankfurt Fulda Can handle all Trains and so many different Versions The Route and Timetable is just a Bad and lazy work on WCML from Rivet and DTG together
It’s interesting, because the LO TT is basically a conga line of 3 sets following each other with a 15 minute gap between the 3 of them. If you look at the PIS boards there’s usually something really out of sync and delayed by like 18 hours, but if you take the third train in the series (the last one before the 90 minute gap), you can see on the PIS that there’s always an LO service scheduled 30 minutes behind you, which is impossible. It would take 40 minutes for the first train to reach the other end of the route once it’s passed you on its return run, then another 40 to get back to the same station. The only way you could ever have a service 30 minutes behind the third train, is if there were 6 units running, It also explains the ridiculous delay on the PIS board. That leads me to believe the timetable was designed & implemented to some extent, to include at least 6 units running it.
