Br 114 A Bad Joke + German Brake System Pgr Officialy Dropped?

This is the second thread about rushed out locos / trains related to TSW5, im making in a very short time.

Finally i decided to spend a bit of time with the new 114, which didnt end up in a run because im rather disappointed with the lack of detail recent trains and locos are getting rushed out. As an a.i train, the 114 was really impressive on the new Frankfurt route.

So after so many locos DTG did rather well for TSW, why it was time to completly wrong set up the drivers brake valve? Its a D2 type (D5 would be a D2 + hydro/electro dynamic brake combined)

BR155, BR110, BR103, BR143, BR218, they all have this type of brake valve modeled rather correct, including the mechanical brake key. Same for the brake modes P(P2)GR.

So what the ..eck is this?:


Thats the D2 from the 143 in its locked position:


It gets worse from here, because i was wondering why nobody cared to layer the advanced timberwagon from Dresden - Chemnitz, instead the "old" version from the maintalbahn was layered.

The answer is, the PGR selector in the 114 doesnt do anything on the brake system. Brake timings are exact the same in R, P and G. But hey, in the 143 its made very well. in G the brakes release and apply slow as they should. Without correct braking timings, TSW becomes entirely pointless to me. I dont care about elevators!

Hmm, glad i have the expert 101, so i dont need to waste my time with this subpar creations, but honestly if i'd still be in my 2hours playing time, TSW5 would be a solid refund. Everything included both 20 page WCML threads pointed towards a rushed out product.

 

I agree with you. I lasted about 10 minutes with this one before refunding and returning back to TSW3 and it's BR143... What a shame; I was very excited for this one, and the 112 for that matter back when that was released.

 

I'm extremely confused with this thread. What's the problem with the 114 specifically...

 

An official response on this would be nice please? Since when are brake valves not being modelled correctly in TSW? If they aren't of course.

 

Surprised the 4.5 bar max HLL pressure wasn't mentioned. I've put that in the Frankfurt feedback thread, yes the 114 is an ultra low effort.

 

Same for the Dostos it’s stuck at 4.5 bars and the 114 don’t break at all unless you slam the emergency brakes…

 

The 411 also has flaws, seems opaque lounge glass switching and air condition was rationalized away for the tilting mechanism and to keep within the budget, but that's something I can accept for TSW standards, I'm not expecting correct displays as in Zusi here. Yes, Zusi hasn't got the beautiful interior model on the other hand.

 

Neither the pressures are correct on the 114, nor the brake timings PGR are working. Seems to have a lot of switches doing nothing.

The D2 / D5 brakevalve is mechanicly locked on the marking, which you can see there.

 

Yea i saw that too when testing yesterday, couldnt believe DTG went this path. The 114 is not worth the time and cant be called a driving experience, better take the way more realistic 143.

This is just another typical nonsense product. If they wanted to go the low effort (Lazy) way, they preferably just took the 143 and renummer the loco + tweak the speeds.

Another epic fail from DTG which tells me they want my money but not deliver a proper product.

 

Really dissappointing!
Funny enough the brakes work correctly in the BR114 introduction at the Training Center. Although the instructor tells you to set the speed selector to 100 kph which makes her accelerate like a F1 driver rookie if you don't set back the traction effort. She also sends you to the cab that's coupled to the Dostos to switch on the white(!) signal lights. Which don't work, you have to do this manually in the front cab. But at least the brakes work as expected. Why not in journey or scenario mode, I can only guess. There she's undrivable.

What a mess!

 

The way it notches up is ridiculous, and it's not correctly working in relation to the traction force selector.

The whole thing looks like it's the first loco attempt for TSW (from a company making train sim stuff for fifteen years now...)

 

This looks either like a low shoddy outsource project, or a last minute ductape.

At least as an a.i train, it does its job

 

The sounds and physics seem to just be copied and pasted from the BR 112. If you use the shunting control at all on your journey, you’ll have about 3kn of power applied for the rest of it which you cannot turn off.

 

How can this leave QA untouched and unfixed?. I'm speechless. DTG can be happy that Sony's refund policy is an affront. You miss it in 2 hours, you suck it up. Otherwise I'd have had the (in parts brilliant!) Kinzigtalbahn refunded.

Ah well, back to beta testing now (Pipe, you sucker! )

I rarely tag somebody from DTG, but anger can do strange things to people.
So DTG Alex DTG JD I really think you should address this asap to clean your records.

 

I have no idea what was going on, but I tried a run earlier and at about 130 km/h the locomotive stopped braking (even when braking hard). No reaction. Of course I missed the station 2 km away, missed the target. That's not normal, is it?

 

same for the destinations. in SKA you could change them on all the trains. very useful for chaining services together. since TSW3 that function got removed. now it's back again on the 403. and with new trains being released it's a gamble if they are fully automatic and thus change on service start on their own if they feel like it, not always the case. they actually work fine like the 642 (although that thing's gsmr believes it is in austria). and driving any 146 or 114 the destination display only works on the dosto's and the loco stays blank. I think the 143 still works. unsure about the 112 and RT 182.

I cannot wait for TSW7 when it actually gets fixed and we have a standard level of quality.

 

The 112, 114 and 143 have an integrated afb with different programs of the brake hehaviour. (Bedingter Auslauf, only accelerate, only brake, delete program)

Havent tested this on the 114.

 

I've chosen service RB51 (15517) from journey chapter "Regio Rider" and the brakes seem to behave correctly. Like it did in the BR114 introduction at the Training Center.

Yesterday's scenario "Pull!" however, also from the journey chapter, showed the messy brake behavior described above. But there the rescue 114 couples to the Dosto cab car. Maybe it has to do with this or a different Dosto version (Do we have 20 or how many?).

Hope this helps to figure out what's going on here.

 

Its not just about the loco is inaccurate and not up to TSW standard, many functions which were modeled well on other tsw locos are just skipped on the 114 or entirely wrong implemented.

Like somebody kindly said : Low Effort

 

The Lüfter also Not working from the Sound
It’s too quiet in the Cab

 

I know that. The "Afb" was switched off, or rather the drive switch was set to off, so the brake should actually work - like on the 143 - right?

 

Dear Jan,
Can you please explain how something like this got released in the first place?
Brand new route comes with six scenarios, and nobody tried them all?
Because, if you try the Pull! scenario, you notice that you're driving a runaway train.

This is not a minor complaint about some button not working, or some texture quality. Brakes not working at all during a scenario should be a major issue.

 

Iam also very disapointed by BR114. In scenario Pull! the Train Brake did not even work, only in Emergency notch, what the …? For what on earth do they have Beta testing program for? For teasing players via leaking screenshot of England ICE? Shouldnt it be for testing and fixing of things that are broken in game?

BR 114 is neglected and unfinished product, and as we know DTG they’ll made som minor fixes and other problems like wrong brake used and others with this loco are going to lay in dust for ever. Such a pity. I was really looking forward for BR 114 services on Frankfurt - Fulda.

 

After the leak, tge entire beta team was suspended pending investigation I believe. Perhaps this is to do with that.

 

TSW players: Hey, DTG, could you please test the routes before launch?
DTG:

 

It's always the fault of others but never DTG... you're well aware that this has been happening even WAY before the leak?

 

I'm not at all saying the leak is to blame, or that DTG are innocent (after all, it was their decision to suspend them all, they arguably didn't have to), however I feel it has exaggerated the issues. If the brakes are just straight up not working something else has obviously gone horribly wrong.

 

What is it with DTG:s fascination for former GDR locomotives in the first place?

 

Maybe they asked themselves:
Which locomotive can we quickly copy/paste and pretend it's a new locomotive we bring to the game?

 

Many bugs you find in the game have been found by beta testers or QA before release. They are still there because there wasnt enough time to fix them.

 

Lets hope this will get adressed. If the selector of the cabheat is not modeled i really dont care, but botching the brake system of your own train sim product, thats just totally unacceptable.

I think many of the members here agree, that this is against the philosophy of what TSW stands for. (Having a realistic experience). Yes everybody knows that its impossible to recreate the loco 100% as the real counterpart.

But after 5 locos with this type of brake valve modeled well in tsw, why dtg went the way with the lowest possible effort and made everything the wrong way with the 6. Loco? Same with the brake modes pgr, and 5bar european standard brake pressure getting wrong is something which im really not discussing here (forza horizon isnt about squared wheels either)

 

At least we have the 146. I have also noticed the issue with the 114. What a joke honestly. Perhaps they should've made a new German locomotive instead of recycling what is effectively the DB BR 143 so many times.

Thank Goodness for Xbox Gamepass

 

Or perhaps it's just the loco that runs on that route in real life.

Thing is, they obviously didn't just copy/paste it, because if they'd done that, it would work.

 

The DB BR 114 is in an unacceptable state. You cannot release a locomotive which breaks does not work. I cannot believe that this was not tested, and not known. This is not a red light in a random service. It is the breaks of the locomotive not working. Unacceptable.

 

The brakes don't work at all for me. No brake cylinder pressure until I put it in Emergency.

 

Hopefully will get fixed asap

 

This right here is what I don’t understand. Just like with the 112 before, they took a good loco (for TSW standards) - the 143 - and somehow broke whatever they could on her. How does this keep happening? I’d have assumed that the 143-clones would be somewhat straightforward to produce in TSW precisely because you can just copy over the good 143 and make some adjustments as needed.

 

I think the 114 is probably a 112 clone, not a 143 one. Would also explain why the brake valves behave so wrong...

 

Corrected

I mean people often confuse good testing and bug fixing. One is weakly dependent on the other. You may have best testers in the world, but it gives you something only when you plan to fix everything they report.

 

when they do, might as well check 112 - that one has very inconsistent e-brake, especially when using train brake (that blends some e-brake to it)... sometimes it brakes properly, sometimes not, which makes it very tricky when you are used to certain brake behavior when slowing down before stations and suddenly e-brake behaves like naaah I'm good lets do nothing and suddenly you also have to deploy lets say direct brake cos e-brake decided to take a vacation and thus train brake isnt powerful enough... tried messing with force selector, but train brake should decide the amount of e-brake on its own, independent of traction motors pretty much, and sometimes it works, sometimes not

yeah, finally a 146 with LZB exit that actually works will definitely be using this version on Koln Aachen and Munchen Augsburg

 

Mostly works

 

It would be better to remove the old Dostos before TSW 2 and the 146 from the Game
They all broken

 

This is just a small thing and I don't know if it's intentional but has anyone noticed that the two PIS of the 114 have different colors. One is orange the other is green

 

These bugs concerning the brakes are very annoying, but solvable.
What bothers me even more about the BR 114 is the lack of driving programs. These are an important part of controlling a BR 243 and its derivatives. Normally, for example, you use the "Brake Only" (Nur Bremsen) mode when driving downhill to maintain the set speed, but this has never been possible in TSW. Instead, you have to force the use of the e-brake by first setting the traction force to "0", then setting the AFB controller to the "On" position (which is also wrong, by the way, because it is actually position 1) and then setting the required force of the e-brake with the traction force/braking force controller. But driving like this is just a hack and has nothing to do with reality. It is still not possible to reliably reduce speed (e.g. from 90 to 70 km/h) by setting the traction to "0", moving the AFB lever from 90 to 70 and then increasing the traction again so that the e-brake responds. The speed does indeed reduce, but even with 120% braking force only to around 72 km/h. To brake to 70, the AFB controller must be briefly set to 60, only then does the e-brake brake strongly enough. This also does not correspond to the real behavior.

And what I also do not understand at all are the PZB indicator lights on the 114, which are completely unreadable in daylight. They seem to have been taken from one of the TSW2 variants of the 143. The 143 from Dresden - Riesa has lighting that works on both ToD3 and ToD4. Driving with the minimal HUD and PZB is almost impossible.
dtg_jan It would be nice if at least that could be changed, because the solution is already on the shelf, as described. But given how poorly the 114 is treated by DTG, I don't think that even something like that will happen. For fans of the 243 (143, 112, 114) like me, that is very unsatisfactory.

(Yes, PZB IS enabled! )

 

Also how do you drive it so that it does not wheelslip?

 

Set the traction force to about 30% when departing at dry conditions (this was mandatory back when the 243 (later 143) was introduced in the 1980s by Deutsche Reichsbahn). Increase it to about 50% after you‘ve reached 5 km/h. Leave it to 50% until you reach about 60 - 70 km/h. After that you can slightly increase the amount. 100% is only possible if you’re going faster than 100 km/h. In rainy or snowy conditions the amount of power must must be far lower.

 

Oh dear, I usually start at around 50% and then max it around 50kmh or so.

 

Does it have that much more power as a 143 ? I thought 114.1 were basically the same but the 114.1 slightly changed so it could go 140km/h instead of 120km/h.

It feels that the 114 has almost double the power of the 143 in game. Was the 143 just to weak all the time or is the 114 just too powerful, or the steps are selected wrong ?

Also...
Why am i able to select 160km/h via the afb lever ? Its clearly stated inside the cab that max speed is definitely 140km/h (which btw also confirmes speculation that this was yet another quick job by simply copying the 112) but then, the 112 drives better then the 114.1.

No matter how, it is "fascinating" that a loco that even is almost completely recycled, releases in that state.

 

In reality the 114.1 was a renumbered BR 112 (Not 112.1) which was originally designed by Deutsche Reichsbahn as an faster version of the BR 243 and numbered as 212. In the end 35 units had been built in 1991 and got renumbered to 112 in 1992. They were allowed to reach a max. speed of 160 km/h and were a more powerful (4000 KW instead of 3500 KW). In 1992 a second series was produced, now called 112.1, slightly revised, with different headlights and with LZB as standard equipment. Confusingly enough, but in 2000 the 112.0 had been renumbered to 114 due to organisational reasons, These 114.0 are the ones represented in the game and are still allowed to reach a max speed of 160 km/h. They are still in use in the Frankfurt area to date.
In 2006 two BR 143 had been updated to 114 specs using parts of dismantled BR 112, One of these conversions was able to reach 160 km/h speed by using a modified type of gear. The other was only able to do 140 km/h. Both had been renumbered to 114.1, got tested but in the end the conversion was to expensive. A third 143 was rebuild as a replacement for a shunted 114 and renumbered to this 114‘s original number.
So, in my opinion it is alright that the 114 in the game are able to reach a 160 km/h. But it’s such a lazy done work with a lot of errors, really badly done. Sadly.