In the end maybe the timetable mode is biting them now, TSC routes would release with a handful of scenarios, the North Clyde suburban route had very few for a complex and vast route. Now people have become accustomed to timetables but I can't think of many TSW routes that have all services.
thanks for the info --- I am sure others will peruse Facebook to continue the mystery -- but as I stated - I could not care less - the fact remains - the timetable should be revisited regardless of its origin - that is my main point.
Had a trip to wcml on Saturday morning. Counted 49 in one hour,not including overground and underground,I was too far north for that.Two split off the wcml so call 47. For almost ten minutes for whatever reason nothing except a 66 went by. The most seen so far in game doing a forty minute service was 31 including 4 overground/underground movements. Not including static at Wembley etc. Was there a plan in place to offer another dlc to add into the timetable? Because there's some very leaniant schedules a 390 for example can arrive:6 minutes early in game whilst sticking to the limits. I've seen a lot of graphic issues after 35 wcml hours since early access Medium sized trees in the overhead,a possible NPC fell out the overhead,it was so quick I'm not sure what it was.overhead wire parts wondering off the Weird texture which have been mentioned already. I wouldn't say that the other two routes don't matter because I rate SB ,done nothing with Frankfurt yet. I jumped on the Tsw 5 train for the West Coast. Dovetail; could you kindly let us all know what is happening please.
I'm making no further comment on this route or any other route on these forums. Warning someone officially for posting truths about the route and what many people have said, verges on something I don't want to even contemplate. As a business with a big player base, transparency and being open with your community when you foul up, is a key component of keeping your customer base onside, the consistent radio silence when things are broken is poor form. Every release so far of TSW, something has gone wrong for one platform or another, and it often takes weeks to fix, this release being the exception of things being fixed within days. Being open, honest and transparent with your community, and they will stick by you. Go silent and not fix things, you'll end up with you having to dig yourselves out of a very big hole each time. Just take a look at Helldivers 2 for how to listen to the community. The community management team are starting to become a little too aggressive in their moderation of comments, opinions and that's not what you do when your asking for feedback from the community. Just come out and tell the community that "yes the comments are correct" and "yes we've messed this up with our partners", don't delete comments or "moderate" them when they are the truth, just makes you look bad and that you're covering it all up. So to summarise WCML South, it's not fit for purpose and really shouldn't have been released in it's current form. All freight is broken or severely miss consisted by a company that clearly doesn't reside in the UK, or have a clue as to what they are doing and what a Class of train in the UK actually means. The Lioness/DC Lines timetable should have just been left off and added later when someone could be bothered to build something with a little more traffic. No railtours on the WCML... You're kidding right... Another glaring issue that a lot of users seem to have overlooked. Incorrect signalling, routing and start points for any service not starting at Euston, Watford Jn or Milton Keynes Central. Freight trains at Bletchley in completely the wrong area of the station limits. Willesden Reliefs not used correctly. No use of other layers outside of Bakerloo line for services (RHTT, Aggragates and Petrolum packs, steam tours add on could all of been used). If as a company you think that the above not being present is acceptable, then you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and readjust your community expectations on what to expect in future routes.
Well, that's not quite true. They did say that the current timetable, flawed though it may be, is to all intents and purposes, final and complete. They also said that the night lighting was satisfactory ( to DTG at least. ) and they would not be changing it. And they did also say, rather vaguely, that they were looking at ways to improve the route. So they haven't been totally silent. Unfortunately, what they have said has been found wanting by forum members. I'm still in the early stages of exploring the route but, so far, despite having all the required layers, my experience is that the timetable is a desert, compared to what I'm sure it should be in real life. I've yet to try running after dark but I'm not expecting to be happy with the lighting. Given that it took a 180 and six months to bring NYT sort of up to scratch, I wouldn't be looking for any quick fixes. And don't forget that NYT lost its freight layer with a new timetable. Be careful what you wish for.
Hey folks, just jumping in to comment on this, I removed a few posts that talked about alleged communications with DTG staff, spreading rumours about alleged future changes confirmed by "insiders". These kinds of posts have always been moderated by us. Any other posts commentating on the quality or issues with the route have not been edited. All the best, Jan
Yep. To be fair, I’ve been pretty vocal on the negative side of things and not had any of my posts moderated.
Because the answer isn't what people here want to here, conflict resolution says don't give the issue air to breath, what I am surprised about is how, after five iterations, people STILL haven't cottoned on to the fact that everything is produced to the lowest possible level, if the fact that a flagship route can ship like that hasn't woken people up to that fact, nothing will.
Same with you mate. Unless they been collecting every ounce of feedback and then I expect to see the longest list of improvements I have ever seen ahaha. But seriously we have all put time into doing this feedback because we are and passionate about the game. No other train game like this and DTG should be performing to the very best.
Missing the 3 other Variants of the 350 is unacceptable tbh even if it meant just having the other Variants as a 350/1 but we still get all the stock I wouldn't care whatsoever. 221 Voyager is quite a miss as it does add traffic. But travelled down WCML quite a bit and it should be much more busier.
I initially thought the conspiracy about Rivet being involved in the timetable was just them being used as a scapegoat. But one of the things DTG and Joe are amazing at is timetables, Goblin Suffragette line, ECML, Southeastern HighSpeed shining examples of incredible timetables. And there are things in WCML which aren’t very DTG which are a giveaway that someone else other than DTG and Joe had a hand in. All station calls being 30 seconds and also arriving and departing at xx:30 and departing xx:00, that’s something DTG have varied. Locking the doors at the end. The missing services as well (which I still think could be performance related) A timetable is the biggest immersion killer or maker in my opinion and WCML does fall short, even though I will openly say it’s still my favourite route in game with Goblin Suffragette, Cathcart and ECML also up there. 19.7 hours spent on TSW5 all on WCML now, I’m still really enjoying it, despite its shortcomings. But the expectations on here that DTG are expected to call out and publicly shame whoever was involved in the route is not going to happen. I would not expect that from any company. All we would get is “We understand that this route fell short of expectations and we are working closely with our partners to address these” Nothing more, nothing less. Anyone expecting a very public humiliation or scathing statement can think again. It’s not going to happen. In the meantime, I hope we do a see a patch soon. If and if the timetable can be worked on, even better but for now I’ll carry on enjoying the route.
Agree 100% but we aren't getting that, we're actually getting nothing meaningful from DTG, apart from what Alex said that they are looking to address the issues, but they haven't said anything since the end of August on the matter. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/your-feedback-for-the-west-coast-main-line-updated.84188/
What you said is absoutley fair and yes agree that Rivet shouldn't be publicly humiliated but amount of times they have released such shameful content is disgusting and are DTG accounting Rivet to responsibility? Doesn't seem like it other Rivet should of improved by now. Only thing Rivet can do is Train Models. I would love to see Rivet give us a Wow on a UK route I really would, I don't want to see them fail but it has to come from them and have that determination to show to the TSW Community they can improve and show us as we are the Consumers of this product they Care and are willing to improve and listen to all feedback given. That is what DTG and Rivet should be doing.
Sadly I personally can't see this being the case. Already posts removed and edited suggests is enough DTG doesn't want the truth to be leaked out. I simply do not understand why being open and honest is such a hard choice on admitting the route is messed up. It's them who need to get the grip and start publicly being open rather than behaving like a fascist dictator as opposed to a democracy. Many players here are here for feedback and accountability for the developers on the sake of improved game quality. Fair play to Alex, Matt and JD who took some of our feedback in and are trying to do the best they can. I don't personally think it's in their nature to let us down. Whether the upper executives has a personal affection for Rivet or is desperate to pay shareholders. They all need to come out now and start changing strategy of this game. This includes giving up the 'max profit' strategy and start focusing on the community and quality products.
Which one of the Rivet routes actually had to get redone by DTG, as it was that bad? Was it Fife Circle?
There are legal ramifications. An 'insider', if they exist, could be subject to disciplinary action and/or it could create legal issues for their employer (and the 'insider'). Clauses about not exposing commercially-sensitive information are standard in most employment contracts. I don't know if this is the case in this instance but it's a consideration. As for publishing lists of bugs and priorities, again there are legal implications to publishing commercially-sensitive information about future products and updates because it can affect such things as revenue recognition, tax and other fiduciary considerations. People 'in the know' are subject to 'safe harbour' provisions enforced through employment contracts, NDAs, etc. As passionate as some people are about this stuff, this is not a public interest issue, so 'whistleblowing' (no pun intended) is not a valid reason.
As I recall DTG had to step in at the last minute and delay West Cornwall Local due to timetable issues. It still launched for a day on Xbox and I played the initial bare bones version. The end result was the enhanced but rather fantastical timetable we got in the end with 47s and 40s layering in.
As far as I am concerned NYT is far from up to scratch. The NY end has just been cut and pasted from a TSW1 route and the difference from the newer portion is like chalk and cheese. I don’t often use the word immersion as personally I think it is overused but in this case it is justified. The sudden change in graphic style and quality totally ruins the experience.
I dont know which is worse. DTG rushing DLC out the door with serious quality issues or people continuing to buy them and then complaining about it endlessly. We all know the form by now, certainly those of us who inhabit this 'micro-universe' of the player base as Ive started to see the detractors of criticism starting to call it. We all know, even if we wont admit it, that it is what it is. If people continue to subsidise the model, then what do you expect? You may not like to admit it, but as long as you continue to buy the substandard dlc, thats what you'll continue to get.
We've already seen what happens if people don't buy DLC'S, looking at Flying Scotsman, Peak Forest and Spirit of Steam. As a consequence of not many users purchasing the routes, they decided to hold future developments of any steam locomotives. When in reality, the main issue was just not getting the physics right. All they seemed to care about if the income went straight to its pocket, that is it rather than looking at the main cause. By using this logic, if people let's say stop buying commuter routes. DTG may as well say 'oh, this didn't make money, well just hold or stop developments for commuter routes'. Instead probably focusing instead on regional or high speed routes to try if they make income. It's sadly all about if it goes into the pocket or not rather looking at the bigger picture from all the patterns we've seen in the past. As much as how many times players have been giving feedback to DTG on how they can actually do better.
Quite a statement. I thought it was because they couldnt get simugraph to simulate steam well enough. So to clarify- you think people should carry on buying substandard products because.......? Ive got no problem if people want to buy stuff. But I can pretty much guarantee the same people will be back here next year, saying the same old 'how could they do this' routines. Its that which Im frankly struggling to comprehend tbh. I bought TSW2020 and TSW3. I see no reason to part with any more cash until the main issues are fixed or DTG suddenly up their game. I feel pretty well vindicated by that approach post release of TSW5(4.1).
It does seem there might have been a bit of gaslighting on behalf of DTG to try and blame the lack of sales, as the reason for abandoning it. As TSC demonstrates there is a healthy demand for properly made steam traction and period routes to run them on. Seems more likely as you say they just couldn't get Simugraph to do it properly and/or persevere to find a solution.
Technically their withdrawal is by the 1st October, so they could decided to run a special between now and then.
If you want to know who has been working on the game, just roll the credits, it’s a big old dev team and no mistake. Do some of those work for Rivet? I wouldn’t know, but I’d imagine so. Like others, I find it remarkable that a route that was so heavily requested by the community has been so badly produced. Out of the three core routes it’s definitely the one that will have most players, I’m sure. As a console player myself, I’m saddened we do not get mod support, so it’s even more important for us that the game is patched and timetable improved. I’m sure sales have been excellent, but there’s no contest on console-yet. DTG take their player base for granted and this release is yet another example of this. There is no excuse for shoddy workmanship, maybe it’s time they ditch Rivet and maybe subcontract to Just Trains or TSG some more, even if there are old school loyalties to Rivet with them being an offshoot from DTG years ago.
Never saw that bug and got the content before DTG pulled it. From memory it was due to the timetable being empty.
Just popping in to add my voice to the calls for the timetable to be ripped up and started again from scratch. I’m not interested in who or why, I’m only interested in the final product being of a certain standard. If we are to compare what a reasonable person would expect from the flagship UK route with the shockingly bad timetable we actually got, then we see why the feedback has been as it has. The gap is huge, as huge as the gaps in the DC lines service pattern. I expect much better from DTG. Players deserve better. I actually struggle to load up the route as I’m just drawn to better content where I know I can enjoy myself. This was the most requested route but what we have is not what we envisaged when requesting it. DTG have messed up, and I know that sometimes these things can happen, but now it’s time for them to fix it. Only a new timetable will suffice.
I remember in the preview stream that the doors opened when they shouldn't have, I think it was they would close then reopen and get stuck/ bugged out
I know many have commented on the state of the timetable on WCML. I have a serious question after doing a 390 run from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston time table run. During the run I encountered 16 active services during my journey (didn’t include in the count any static consists ). So how many services should I have encountered if there was a complete timetable? Not being from the UK, I felt it was a satisfactory run with the encounters I had, even had a few cautions along the way… as well as doubles yellow changing to clear well with in my line of sight giving the feel of other traffic in front of me. Not trying to start an argument, just curious how many other services should I have encountered.
There are detailed summaries earlier in the discussion but essentially, between all the rolling stock (minus freight - slightly more complicated to work out), it’s around 300/400 services short over the day. Personally I’d be happy to just get the DC line TT sorted, the 390 & 350 is well within acceptable standards for TSW.
thanks —- so if there are 300 to 400 a day missing would add about 12 to16 per hour if we make the assumption of them being evenly distributed over a 24 hour period (which I know they aren’t) so an additional 6 to 8 more over my 30 minute run …
Like I say the biggest gap is the DC lines which span between Euston & Watford, so the distribution would be much more concentrated into the first 15 miles of the route - it would be around 20-30tph in that area, for the 72stock & 710 alone. If DTG sort out the 350 consists too, that should have a good effect on the general feel to the route.
honestly if rivet don’t improve I believe they should be left behind. They were the first third party to come into TSW, and have already been overtaken by everyone from DTG to JT (the most recent). Whether it’s tight deadlines, cutting corners or poor management, something needs to be done about rivet games as they just keep releasing subpar content. The only somewhat decent route from rivet has been berninaline. Uk rivet content is a joke and arosaline? We don’t talk about that. But it’s getting to a point where DTG need to step in and address what’s going on with rivets poor quality in comparison to the standard tsw route and get to the bottom of the issue, instead of getting rivet in to mess up routes like these
