Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

Do you think it'll be out by Christmas?

 

Class 87’s in fact all the AC electrics generally had no trouble lifting heavy trains over Shap. However they were a bit prone to wheelslip in wet or greasy conditions which could be an interesting challenge.

Edit: Just checked the JT update and yes, it looks like the Carlisle area trip freights have been included. Marvellous.

 

I have said it before and I'll say it again, like BPO were the highlight of TSW4 this route will be the highlight of TSW 5. Forget the WCCL or the Welsh thing, and whatever features came with TSW5 (see I've already forgotten them) this will be the route most will think of when TSW5 pops in their head. Great for JT, bloody embarrassing for DTG.

 

Wow, that's quite a bit of horsepower. I see 60,000lbf for traction, which is decent too, and that's what you need on a hill, not so much the horsepower.

 

Is it just me or has this changed? I could’ve sworn there was a Scotrail red stripe livery originally listed.

 

yes it originally said ScotRail Blue Stripe & ScotRail Blue Strip

 

Blackpool Branches was announced in August 2023 and was out in November 2023. It's likely that Over Shap (un-official title) will be out by Christmas

 

tbf anything that stays long enough in the UK can be marked as British. But fair enough haha.

 

There was plenty of diesel traction in the area, both DMU and loco-hauled for passengers, and also diesel-hauled freight. 47s were the most common loco in the UK at the time, as 512 were built, so they will predominate, but BR had a very varied (and often motley) selection of diesels at the time, some dating back to the 1950s Modernisation Plan. Ruairidh MacVeigh's YouTube channel has some great videos on the evolution of BR's electric locos if you're interested in the history, though he hasn't yet done the 87. Try and for starters.

I didn't generally go quite as far north as this route is set but in the 90s, I travelled many times on trains hauled or pushed by Class 86, 87 and 90 locos so I have a lot of nostalgia here!

 

You know what I mean ;-)
There's a "look" to the 1950s-1990s British locos.
Even the Class 66 has it, although the 70 and the EMUs no....

To be fair, the US designs are similar as well.
The Alcos, EMDs and GEs from the 1960s-1990s were all kinda the same layout too.

The Germans same thing. Same boxy shape, electrical powered....

You can just tell by looking at them where they came from.

The Class 90 looks like it's in the wrong country, like a Frenchie slipped across the Channel by mistake.

 

The Class 66s were also built in America, and can be found all over Europe.

 

British locomotive (Class 86)



French locomotive


Class 90


Just saying... has anyone done a paternity test to make sure that's really related to the Class 86?
;-)

 

Yes, but they were designed to British specs to "look British" and run on British railways.
They don't run in the US and a relatively small number were exported to Europe.
They weren't even "made in the USA"... they were made in Canada which might as well be British to be fair.
j/k

 

I know not related to the route, but I can't help but feel we are missing two of the most iconic trains of the era operator has set out:
(In a spoiler so the thread isn't broken up too much)

Spoiler

 

Only now i can see it XD. Maybe the yellow front gives that iconic british design.

So true. And i am not gonna say much so not to go too off topic-

 

I think the 90 is more typical of BR's late 80s/early 90s look. The Class 91, and the Mark 3 and 4 Driving Van Trailers (DVTs - basically cab cars that enabled push-pull operation) all have a look that is more consistent with the 90, but with privatisation we never got to see where BR might have gone with their designs.

Spoiler

This is the 91, you can still see a few of them on the East Coast line.


And here's a Mk3 DVT:

 

BR doesn't sell.

 

A BR Blue HST is something that feels like a no-brainer to make for the game so i'm surprised nobody has made one yet. I think JT's new loco is gonna be the Class 86

 

Well…perhaps you have a point…

 

Good News!

 

Those latest screenshots look excellent. I was just thinking how good a class 25 would look on this route.

 

Good catch. I had missed that in my excitement for a proper electric loco. Looking forward to what JT came up with. Apart from that, only patience is required. We have not been idle

 

Talk about attention to detail… on the JT site there’s a screenshot of 08 910, which was definitely one of the KD shunters back in my day!

 

“
Carlisle was well known for its trip workings between the multiple industries and Carlisle Kingmoor Marshalling Yard. For players who own the appropriate wagons you will be able to shunt to your hearts delight taking wagons from Kingmoor Yard to various locations around Carlisle using the Class 08 shunter. For players to be able to drive these diagrams you will require all of these addons:

Tees Valley Line: Darlington - Saltburn-by-the-Sea Route
West Cornwall Local: Penzance - St Austell & St Ives Route
Spirit of Steam: Liverpool Lime Street - Crewe Route
Northern TransPennine: Manchester - Leeds Route
Blackpool Branches: Preston - Blackpool & Ormskirk Route
BR Heavy Freight Pack
BR Class 31 Loco
BR Class 20 Loco “

I mean… wow… this sound AWESOME

 

I´m not too sure on that.... ATS and TSG are also working on something. Might not be the only great thing coming up.

 

There was a suspicion that ATS is going to be Crewe to Manchester via the Styal Line, set in modern day with existing stock. So not exactly going to blow the socks off. TSG unknown, but hopefully a diesel operated secondary line like Eifelbahn or Obereruhrtalbahn which would get the juices flowing a bit.

 

I bloody well am! ATS' route, as Vern highlights, will just be another modern EMU commuter route, hardly different to DTG's offerings, apart from quality hopefully, and TSG's will likely be of high quality like JT's but unlikely it will be above JT's due to WCML Over Shap in the 80s setting the bar very, very high. If TSG manage to raise that bar I would be incredibly surprised, so I have a large amount of confidence in my statement still!

 

As someone who was born in the 90's, with zero experience in this era or even this route in real life, this route just ticks every box.

the detail, the care and attention put into this (as well as Blackpool Branches).. but critically for me the timetable (which i've always said makes or breaks a route) absolutely makes it and then some for me.

the layers included are amazing, i just wish so much that a timetable like this (or even a timetable just a little bit close to this) could become standard across tsw routes.. how the same game can have a route with a timetable like this, but also a route like Fife Circle with only 97 services (approx 20 of those being 2 minute shunt services) shows there is a huge disparity right now

 

I´m not happy about the choice of route, but the quality will be great looking at the TSC routes from ATS. I will be buying ATS first TSW offer no matter what it is...

I´m thinking they will be doing something for the 420. So I´m assuming it will be under wires and set in the past. The Problem with these heritage routes are, that the network does not link up... people already complaning about not beeing able to drive the pendo in the correct setting.
But I´m looking forward to the JT effort and the 87... Going to be a great route and loco. I know the challenge from TSC.

 

I'm quite up for Manchester - Crewe TBH... not quite so keen on present day, and Styal is a bit of a strange choice - you'd have the possibility of TPE trains from the airport, but you wouldn't get to drive them very far! I guess that kills the prospect of a TfW 67+Mk4s too. Still, I have a feeling it'd be a fun drive anyhow, especially if they go past Crewe and model Basford Hall, Gresty Lane etc.

If they did both the Styal AND Stockport lines though... oooo....

 

I would certainly prefer it with a class 303 or 304. I do like the 323 though and it would be good to have a faster route to drive it on.

From what I have read on here and other places, if it is the Styal line it will be quite quiet.

I don't have any ATS TSC routes but I understand they are detailed.

 

After taking a brief pause from TSW, I think this'll be my first purchase in 2 years, it really does look incredible! Great route, great locos, great liveries, even if it is well before my time.

 

Wonder what the loco dlc will be

 

Popular speculation is a Class 86 to complement the 87.

A Class 25 is an outside possibility but by 1986 the type had dwindled rapidly and were rarely seen in traffic as much as they would have been 5 years previously.

 

Since I haven't seen it posted in this thread, here's the official Just Trains FAQ from their website that they keep updated.
https://www.justtrains.net/in-development/train-sim-world-5-west-coast-main-line-preston-carlisle

So looking forward to the huge amount of content they're promising.
So many locos, layers, different variety....
I don't think they're going to offer anything more than the Class 87. There's already so MUCH there.
Yes it'd be cool to see a Class 25, but I won't be disappointed if "all" they actually have is what's listed on the FAQ.
That's more content (assets, locos, timetable) than MOST routes in game.

 

Not with this route, no, but they have also got a separate Loco DLC (hopefully it will live up to the name!) in development for this route.

 

And I figured that was the Class 86, the sister to the 87 that is already on the TSC version of the route.

 

I would happily put a pint with steak and kidney pudding, from the local, on it being the 86, as it does seem the most likely candidate.

 

You can keep the kidney pudding, but the rest sounds good =-)

 

The TSC version came with a Class 87 and 47. WCML North (Carlisle - Glasgow) came with the 86 and the 87 was a separate DLC (the 87 in Shap had significantly improved physics, however).

 

I'm hoping it actually is a loco ... "loco DLC" in the past has sometimes meant EMU

But, that said, anything new to drive from that era is a plus in my book!

 

I've just watched the timelapse and a thought occurred. I'm not sure if anyone from JT can comment just yet (but hopefully can in the future), but I recently played SimSig, using the Carlisle simulation and a 1980s timetable. It was absolutely busy and blew my head off, especially all the run-arounds and loco moves. Is this the kind of level we can expect in Over Shap? It'll be amazing if so.

 

Et tu…

I just finished my play through of one of the 1979/1980 scenarios and it was fantastic. I admit got a bit overwhelmed with some of the attach/detach moves, sometimes several on each train and ended up having to delete or simply lost some of the traffic. Things were probably slightly less busy in 1986 and of course by then the Goods/Avoiding Line behind the station had gone, probably Dentonholme Yard and the power station too. However Kingmoor should be there in all its glory.

I subsequently started the 2009 scenario and it is quite a contrast. A lot of overnight freight but the passenger service down to one or two sleepers in each direction plus the mail. Only got to 0300 but can see daytime will be less challenging as pretty much everything will be multiple unit, Pendolino etc. The Annan line is double again apart from the single lead at Gretna and Kingmoor much simplified.

As regards release date for the JT route, hopefully we will get some indication from the October roadmap. Let’s just say it would make a very nice Christmas present but at the same time I would rather they go the extra distance to finish it properly and not rush out like DTG or Rivet tend to do.

 

All the screenshots and the time lapse would suggest it’s looking in a pretty finished state, so hoping for sooner rather than later.

 

I’m not familiar with the time period and what locos It would ve. Been but it would probaly have to reused locos. We haven’t had an UK electric loco yet so im excited for that. Id say it better in this era as we have an electric loco finally you can still use free roam / scenario planner to change it and I’m sure well get diesel locos such as 47 to use stilll c

 

Sorry but what’s the WCCL? Thanks

 

WCCL "West Coast Closer to London"?

 

West Coast Commuter Line. Doesn't actually include any 'mainline' services with the route, just commuter runs, and so I refuse to call it the WCML.

 

It's going to get very confusing if those of use with the 390 call it "WCML South" and those without call it "WCCL", however, as a lover of chaos let's do it anyway.

On a more serious note, the theory that DTG aren't planning any improvements to the TfL services in the Timetable is troubling. If I owned a company, let's call them Pigeonwing Simuations, and I released a product with some glaring errors I would be nothing short of embarrassed if some clever users manage to build and release a patch that brings the product up to release quality in their spare time before my own company was able to patch it. I'd feel like I should maybe employ a few of those clever modders on an ad hoc basis to make my products much better and therefore make more money.

Maybe I have an overly-simplistic approach to customer service, quality and driving profitability after only 35 years in business.

 

I do sometimes wonder if DTG's attitude is, "meh, that'll do for release, the community mods will end up fixing it anyway, right onto the next DLC....."

Rinse and repeat.....

It's the console users I feel sorry for, luckily us PC users have access to these wonderful mods and make a HUUUUGE difference!

However, console users need not worry about JT's section of the WCML, it's going to be epic!