It's not a simulation of the real WCMLS that is the problem, it's a very busy route because the busy mainline runs adjacent to the DC line with both Overground and Underground services every few minutes. This is not a simulation but just a game that rivet made up loosely based on the WCMLS. Sort of a slightly busier Edinburgh to Glasgow Express. Shoddy workmanship for the selling price, and an insult to those of us that know the real route.
I think there are a mixture of opinions, some very happy, some happy, some not so happy, some very unhappy.......some enjoying others unhappiness. I am happy with TSW5 overall, not so happy with WCMLS but I am sure it will reach a stage where I will be happy with it. I like the other two routes and some of the new features like selectable layers and the new map are very useful. I am more looking forward to what is to come, the GWE remaster, the WCML over Shap, the Cardiff lines, the first Dutch route, the Tadami line, the class 104, so plenty to look forward to.
Yes, I heard that the third rail trains schedule is very simplified. What about the main line itself(350/390)? Also what train is missed most for mainline? 730?
The class 730 would have been a third new train, maybe it will come as DLC down the line, also with a new timetable for BCC.
Yes, as are we all looking forward to what wcml should be, what's your best guess on when it will be fixed? How many players have had to come on here, raise tickets, voiced their opinons on what needs to be fixed and we owe those players a big thank you, so does DTG? Wcml should be an outstanding route, but it is not sadly.
I don't have a best guess. It will be fixed when it's fixed. I'll exercise patience and drive all the other routes I have. They have acknowledged there are issues and have started issuing patches and have talked about more. I am well aware people should voice their opinions, I have been vocal myself and started a thread about the poor timetable. That doesn't mean that there aren't others enjoying it whilst waiting for improvements or just enjoying it as they don't see anything wrong. People enjoying content you don't think is good enough isn't some kind of conspiracy.
Go on hazard a guess when it will be fixed? Gentleman's bet! Yeah, forums are all about having a conversation with other people and if you are lucky to find a forum on a subject everybody likes in that forum, then happy days. In terms of people's opinions, not everybody is going to agree with everybody and if they did forums and life would be very boring. It is a free world, people can speak their minds, the way I look at it is, everybody is entitled to my opinion Yeah, best plan is drive other routes and drive wcml when it is worthy of being driven and then it doesn't ruin the experience for you, wise choice. There maybe players who are brave enough or happy enough to play wcml and hopefully if they find faults they report them to DTG or post them on here or both?
Yes it is "subjective" but if you compare this route with some previous addons, the quality simply isn't there compared to some previous addons. Just because something "works" shouldn't excuse terrible quality. NY-Trenton "worked" but was poorly recieved before the timetable update due to the number of issues with that route. Just because you don't mind the bugs or issues shouldn't mean that they should be there to begin with. This isn't about a misplaced tree. DTG have shown that they are capable of making good quality routes so there really should be no excuse as to why this route is the way it is
Have to say it did put me off preordering this time round. I’m firmly in the “quality not quantity” camp, and I just can’t bring myself to support this relentless cycle of releases that’s so obviously driven solely by fiscal quarters any more. It really doesn’t have to be this way. Old fashioned, I know, but I’ve been around TSW a few years now and can see the pattern. Rushing stuff out to please the bean counters isn’t something I will finance. I’ll buy this route if it gets fixed, or it’s cheap enough for me not to feel like a mug. I really want DTG to succeed as a company, but it’s starting to feel like there are some high-up people making some pretty short-sighted decisions. They can’t see the longer-term community (= repeat business) aspect, they seem more interested in short-term ‘wins’. If they fail to see this it’s bad for all of us in the long run, but it’s entirely in their hands. All we can do is say how it is and hope that they listen. I get the impression that the next time Rivet announce a DLC it basically won’t sell at all, in which case maybe someone high up will finally understand
I don't need to hazard a guess, it will take however long it takes. They won't do it quicker just because we want them too. We would all be moaning they should have took longer if they rush it a second time! Anyway you presumably don't own it so why are you so eager? Surely you're happy to wait too as I'm sure you want them to get it right and for us all to be happy with it, then you won't have to come on here reading all the unhappy posts.
Why are all the AI 66’s all red DB ones? On TSW4 I downloaded a number of different liveries and the AI 66’s were all varied but on TSW5 nothing but red ones!
I guess I should stay humble as a lucky PC player of TSW but I genuinely think his forthcoming mod will make me care so much less about the other obvious fixes. That LO section is integral to the feel of the line, in the same way that the Bakerloo Line feels dead without 710s, 350s and 390s.
You won't even hazard a guess? It was down to DTG to ensure wcml was ready or not announce the route at all till it was ready. Fans are not to blame for this, nor are they to blame for coming on the forums and expressing their displeasure at a poorly executed route. I know it might send all the fan boys worlds into a spiral, but if players didn't say anything nothing would have been done and the proof in that is how wcml was launched. And you say DTG won't fix wcml any faster despite what we say, you really believe that do you? I don't know what knowledge you have about businesses, so let me explain, this is impacting on customer satisfaction, which in turn is also affecting sales, a business will or should aim for good/high customer satisfaction because it is good business, organisations who don't do this will struggle to survive. For example you buy a jam donut in Tesco, but it didn't have any jam in it, so you are not happy and therefore you won't buy another donut from Tesco. So, DTG have taken the jam out of our donut and I await for them to put it back because we all know they can make some really tasty donuts err I mean routes
If you believe that this mini drama over WCMLS is really going to wobble the company that is Dovetail you clearly don't know as much as you think you do, taking your donuts analogy for example, Tesco sell millions of donuts and I'm sure there are plenty that have no jam in them, also plenty probably complain about it and it hasn't effected the sales of said donuts. Same principle applies with the latest version of the game, plenty of people have stated their negative opinions on it here on the forums, but this is the smallest fraction of the playerbase, so the effect on Dovetails earnings on the game is going to be so microscopic they won't even notice it, so you will probably have to wait with your empty donut for a long long long time.......
Okay I’ve had a bit more of a look at this route. Can someone please tell me why there are Oyster Card contactless tap points at Tring? Like legitimately I’m struggling with this one.
Most of the 66's through there IRL are green Freightliner but I believe DTG don't have their license.
I have worked in business for over 30 years so I don't need patronising, thank you. Who ever said fans were to blame for this? I certainly didn't so I am not sure why you are making things up? Anyway I don't know why I bothered replying, some on here seem to read what they want to read, not what has been said.
Yep, thats right, DTG dont have the FL licence but why can I not see any AI services with other liveried 66’s downloaded from Creators Club at all. Have DTG disabled all other liveries in WCML DTG Alex?
The assumption being that the views of this microscopic fraction (as Ive seen those raising concerns described as) on the forums diverge from those that do not make their views known here. At the moment, I see no reason to suppose that the views expressed here should be any different from those found in the wider community. Just a thought.
I don't know you, so I only put an explaination in case you didn't know anything about businesses. Fantastic you have 30 years plus in business, lets hear your take on wcml from a companys perspective? If a business you worked for turned wcml out, what would they have done, would they have launched an unfinished product?....? In terms of fans taking the blame, as soon as someone says anything against TSW or a DLC fan boys jump to its defence. You are not one because you said you are not playing it, you are wiser, you will wait till it gets fixed, so any guesses when as you have 30 years?
If the company I worked for sent out an unfinished product it would have dire consequences for peoples safety so the two companies are incomparable. I don't have an opinion or any knowledge of how long patches will take as I don't work in the industry, you clearly have an idea so how about you share your wisdom with us. Anyway, I switch off when someone uses the word "fanboy" so enjoy your Sunday gloating, I have work to do this afternoon.
Do I think my opinions are going to "wobble" DTG? Oh, let me answer that with a question, do you seriously think my aim is to "wobble" DTG or or...bear with me, here is a crazy idea, get DTG to fix wcml that they shouldn't have launched in the first place in that condition. In terms of DTG won't listen to a fraction of the player base, you are absolutely right, but then why have DTG agreed to start doing fixes to wcml? If it is only a fraction, it makes good business sense to have your player base happy or as happy as they can be made.
I am not gloating, I was only looking to tap into the 30 years of experience you had working for a business. Anyway, enjoy your Sunday, don't work too hard it being a day of rest n all
. You know fully well that fixes and patches for bugs are just the standard procedure for literally any and all games from absolutely every game company, so trying to frame it that because some people are venting and posting negative opinions is the only reason they are fixing it again just proves how much you don't know about general business practice in the games industry, at this point you really are just trying to bait an argument out of people, it's really quite patheticly sad it has to be said.......
DTG will be concerned about the negative comments here and elsewhere and will try to fix as many of them as possible. Those who aren't impressed but are on PC can look forward to some fantastic mods in the very near future. I'd put a 2-3 week timeline on the first significant patch from DTG. No amount of hang-wringing and guessing about the intentions of DTG and their partners will speed that up. So for now, those who don't like WCML South but have bought it can register their unhappiness by not playing it. DTG will have access to all the stats for every user. And those who've not bought it or got a refund can wait until they feel the product is worth buying. For both constituencies, an element of patience will be required. DTG know what we're not happy with and are taking all valid, constructive criticism on-board. It'll get there, for the time being go back to your favourite route and enjoy that for a little longer or, like me, maybe use this time to learn how to drive new rolling stock in other countries.
So how to turn on the interior lights on 350? I found this option. I press "turn ON". Checkboxes filled. And nothing. Is there is an "enter" button somewhere? "E" button says "down", not "enter". So how?
You've actually highlighted a fantastic point to everyone here.... Vern highlighted neutral sections. You've highlighted the route against previous releases I've highlighted it wasn't something I've noticed. We circle loosely back around to no matter what DTG do someone will find something and call it a game breaker, or sloppy or such like. On that basis do we automatically think everything is sloppy , or do we feed back key things and recognise what is 100% to you, wouldn't be to another, to verns lens etc. We're all passionately individual, passionately right
"you really are just trying to bait an argument out of people, it's really quite patheticly sad it has to be said....but yet here you are And you still haven't answered my question in regards to do you think I am trying to "wobble" DTG?
Again, just because you don't notice issues doesn't mean they don't exist or they should just be ignored/excused because you don't notice them. NY-Trenton for example was a poorly recieved route. It got mostly negative reviews when it came out because of the incomplete timetable, poor scenery and various bugs. The route was playable but the reception was not positive. There are games like Concord that failed because while the game is playable, it's poor, lackluster design and not so great live service amongst other issues made the game flop. There are many games that are playable, but there is a reason why a playable product gets a poor reception.
I don't really understand why a few people passionately try to take it upon themselves to defend DTG over something as obviously sub-par as this release? What do they gain from it? In actual fact the game gets improved because of people's criticisms and the more that do it the better. NY-Trenton being a prime example. So what is the motif of this merry little band? As has been stated already - are they enjoying starting an argument? It's as if in life they enjoy going against the flow, pretending that everything is rosy everywhere, perhaps because they live in privileged positions? Of course they are entitled to their opinions, but it does seem strange to actively try and pretend a route is fine when it's clearly not and by so doing obstruct the improvements that are obviously needed.
Weren't you telling people not to buy it recently? If people don't buy it, improvements also can't be made.
I don't think anyone is defending DTG per se. Some of us are either testing the game regularly and adding feedback that helps DTG review what needs changing or are patiently waiting for the first major patch before judging the makers of the game. I would suggest that those wishing to re-litigate their unhappiness with DTG more generally would be better to post in the "Enough is Enough" thread.
Well I wouldn’t hold my breath. DTG have gone utterly quiet about the issues WCMLS has, along with all the other TSW5 teething problems. Where are the detailed responses (not just bland platitudes) from the CM’s and EP to those of us who paid for a less than stellar experience? I would hope behind the scenes they have put together a team to start tackling everything but even if they don’t want to do dirty washing in public, as I’ve stated previously some frank admissions would go some way to offsetting the frustration felt by customers at this point. As for me, well pretty much weaned myself off TSW5 at this point. The new routes got boring quite quickly even without the problems. TSC and the truck sims are hitting the spot for me, at least until the JT route comes along.
A lot of routes in TSC are getting updates from various TP modders. Some payware, some not. There's still a good game in there, I just wish there was a list of routes that are no longer needed, there's a lot of old crud in my over 1tb Railworks file. Where the DTG team need a lot of credit is their core changes over the last few years that have made it unbelievably stable. I can't remember the last CTD while driving. I used to have to save before reaching busy areas just in case.
Weve been here before and the patching history is not great. Anything that does land (cue tumbleweed meme) is likely to break more than it fixes so beware what you wish for folks. In the meantime Simrail is scratching the itch for me atm. Theres a few good singleplayer scenarios in there now and the server is pretty busy in the evenings. I bought the cargo DLC and am enjoying the new route extensions too. The world is so much more dynamic and so its more immersive for me. I enjoy the unscheduled siding layovers while a despatcher moves a faster train through, especially when Im running cargo, and the EMU in there now is pretty good fun too. The ET22 is quite a beast with that 3000 ton coal train, and the engine room modelling is fun but its a bit too slow for my taste, although nice to master it. Theres plenty of variety now and using the support website means theres always a way to find what you want (links below). Every run provides a different outcome, so far removed from the sterility of TSW. Now this is all highly subjective but it does indicate there are other options out there if one looks. I know you Vern are familiar with Simrail, but others might not be. To those people I would say that to begin with, I was adamant that multiplayer wasnt for me, and that it was UK only or nothing, but I have to say Im thoroughly enjoying my foray into the world of Polish Railways. It does come with a steep learning curve though. The tutorials are barely sufficient and further reading and youtube watching is essential. Live-Map - SimRail EDR (simrail-edr.de) Train list - SimRail EDR (simrail-edr.de)
Squire, the point you have just made is exactly why I wouldn't listen to anything they have to say, they clearly don't see the irony that they can't even stand behind their own advice, and thus makes their argument totally void and pointless, it's always give them enough rope......
After the mess with TSW4 launch, I am in no rush to touch or play TSW5, I have downloaded it and that is, I will let the several updates sink in before I will go near it. The silence from DTG is deafening, I am sure they are scrambling in the background and the reason they haven't said anything is probably they do not have any solutions. In terms of business and customer relations, you must keep the customer informed regardless if a problem hasn't been solved or you can just stick your head in the sand? Wcml shouldn't have launched in this condition, it is practically in beta format and we are probably looking at a 4 to 6 months period to turn the route around, I hope I am wrong, be happy to be wrong. I might look into TSC at this point.
No I said I wasn't buying it. I did make clear that people who did buy it were basically saying to DTG "it's ok even though it's very substandard I'll still give you my money". The consequences of that should be fairly obvious. I don't understand your logic of handing over your money and then trusting DTG to fix things when they've already been renumerated? More likely they will just think all is fine and move onto the next dlc as fast as they can. They are not a charity.
I remember writing that we need to send a message to DTG via our wallet, but at the end of the day people should make up their own minds. NY-Trenton got fixed because US players kicked up a fuss. I don't remember any fanboys protecting DTG in that instance.
yeah NY-Trenton was a mess when it released and i didn't buy it until that was mainly fixed. its better now but not enough to be ''good''
ive seen trainspotter from tauranga review the NY-trentron route and he said it was horrible and many said that same and thats why i didnt buy it when it released
I'm not defending DTG, most of the time I'm on the opposite site of this 'conflict'. But for me WCML isn't that bad. Maybe cause I'm not a local, and I just don't know to much what it should be like. Ofcource I'm playing with the ballast mod and full packet of sounds from Maestro ItsYa165. All this changes perception for the better value.
