That route is missing a lot in and around the stations. Take a look with the external camera outside H&W or any or the other stations on the route and compare them with, say, the station surrounds on San Bernadino.
It is odd as the routes for TSW4 were all to a decent standard, even if personally I found them less of an inspiring package than this years package. I do think that in the last couple of years DTG's routes have been generally of a high quality, not just Glossop and Goblin but the likes of the Rosenheim route, Semmeringbahn, Bremen to Oldenburg and the afore mentioned TSW4 routes.. Maybe WCMLS was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
Rivet seem to think it's more important to have working lifts than working neutral sections. I've said elsewhere there needs to be consistency across all routes and DTG are like Premier League referees. We can't have missing Neutral Section's and no arc/sparks from Pantographs on new routes when they appear on older routes.
I caved in today and bought WCML South. Why oh why didn’t I hold off? First thing I see at Euston is the 390 with all its coaches lit at different light levels. Then there’s the section which the Bakerloo is on - I can’t be sure but I’d bet that it was copied and pasted from the Bakerloo route itself. I think some bits have been tidied up but for the most part yeah I’d say it’s been lifted directly. The modelling of some of the route isn’t great, not up to par with what DtG have released in the past. The sidings (sorry, not sure of their name) next to the tube station - in the Bakerloo route there’s a ton of stuff there, mainly older BR stuff which is fine. In this they’re just barren. It all could have done with a bit more polish.
Yeah, I think if you read what players are putting on here regarding wcml, some are saying it is not good and then others say they are happy with their purchase, but I guess they have no choice to say otherwise once they bought it. I would say you could be in for a long wait for it to be fixed, the lighting might get done before Christmas and a few small bits maybe, but it will be well into next year before DTG, just a guess, hope I am wrong? In the mean time maybe play something else?
That's because Rivet did much if not most of the modelling, East Coast is for the most part a decent route, the scenery is beautiful and spot on, watching the videos of West Coast it is obvious that Rivet did much of the scenery with their cheap looking trees and vegetation.
I honestly don't understand why you're so angry on this route. It looks normally fine. It's boring by itself, not cause its scenery/models quality. But not so extremely boring like SKW, so it's fine.
It's boring because the timetable is absolutely shocking! If they actually amend the timetable, the small niggles with the scenery will be overlooked as people will be too busy running their services.
Absolutely this. If the world feels alive, your brain filters out the errors because its busy narrating a different reality to you.
Considering some of the errors I’ve seen with the signalling I’d definitely be concerned about the route knowledge of said drivers!
It could actually be that some people are actually happy with their purchase, I know that you probably don't want to believe that but so.........
I mean... It's not good when light baking is an issue, they have used the same inaccurate Bakerloo Line models, the nightlighting being poor by default.... the list goes on
It's not a simulation of the real WCMLS that is the problem, it's a very busy route because the busy mainline runs adjacent to the DC line with both Overground and Underground services every few minutes. This is not a simulation but just a game that rivet made up loosely based on the WCMLS. Sort of a slightly busier Edinburgh to Glasgow Express. Shoddy workmanship for the selling price, and an insult to those of us that know the real route.
I think there are a mixture of opinions, some very happy, some happy, some not so happy, some very unhappy.......some enjoying others unhappiness. I am happy with TSW5 overall, not so happy with WCMLS but I am sure it will reach a stage where I will be happy with it. I like the other two routes and some of the new features like selectable layers and the new map are very useful. I am more looking forward to what is to come, the GWE remaster, the WCML over Shap, the Cardiff lines, the first Dutch route, the Tadami line, the class 104, so plenty to look forward to.
Yes, I heard that the third rail trains schedule is very simplified. What about the main line itself(350/390)? Also what train is missed most for mainline? 730?
The class 730 would have been a third new train, maybe it will come as DLC down the line, also with a new timetable for BCC.
Yes, as are we all looking forward to what wcml should be, what's your best guess on when it will be fixed? How many players have had to come on here, raise tickets, voiced their opinons on what needs to be fixed and we owe those players a big thank you, so does DTG? Wcml should be an outstanding route, but it is not sadly.
I don't have a best guess. It will be fixed when it's fixed. I'll exercise patience and drive all the other routes I have. They have acknowledged there are issues and have started issuing patches and have talked about more. I am well aware people should voice their opinions, I have been vocal myself and started a thread about the poor timetable. That doesn't mean that there aren't others enjoying it whilst waiting for improvements or just enjoying it as they don't see anything wrong. People enjoying content you don't think is good enough isn't some kind of conspiracy.
Go on hazard a guess when it will be fixed? Gentleman's bet! Yeah, forums are all about having a conversation with other people and if you are lucky to find a forum on a subject everybody likes in that forum, then happy days. In terms of people's opinions, not everybody is going to agree with everybody and if they did forums and life would be very boring. It is a free world, people can speak their minds, the way I look at it is, everybody is entitled to my opinion Yeah, best plan is drive other routes and drive wcml when it is worthy of being driven and then it doesn't ruin the experience for you, wise choice. There maybe players who are brave enough or happy enough to play wcml and hopefully if they find faults they report them to DTG or post them on here or both?
Yes it is "subjective" but if you compare this route with some previous addons, the quality simply isn't there compared to some previous addons. Just because something "works" shouldn't excuse terrible quality. NY-Trenton "worked" but was poorly recieved before the timetable update due to the number of issues with that route. Just because you don't mind the bugs or issues shouldn't mean that they should be there to begin with. This isn't about a misplaced tree. DTG have shown that they are capable of making good quality routes so there really should be no excuse as to why this route is the way it is
Have to say it did put me off preordering this time round. I’m firmly in the “quality not quantity” camp, and I just can’t bring myself to support this relentless cycle of releases that’s so obviously driven solely by fiscal quarters any more. It really doesn’t have to be this way. Old fashioned, I know, but I’ve been around TSW a few years now and can see the pattern. Rushing stuff out to please the bean counters isn’t something I will finance. I’ll buy this route if it gets fixed, or it’s cheap enough for me not to feel like a mug. I really want DTG to succeed as a company, but it’s starting to feel like there are some high-up people making some pretty short-sighted decisions. They can’t see the longer-term community (= repeat business) aspect, they seem more interested in short-term ‘wins’. If they fail to see this it’s bad for all of us in the long run, but it’s entirely in their hands. All we can do is say how it is and hope that they listen. I get the impression that the next time Rivet announce a DLC it basically won’t sell at all, in which case maybe someone high up will finally understand
I don't need to hazard a guess, it will take however long it takes. They won't do it quicker just because we want them too. We would all be moaning they should have took longer if they rush it a second time! Anyway you presumably don't own it so why are you so eager? Surely you're happy to wait too as I'm sure you want them to get it right and for us all to be happy with it, then you won't have to come on here reading all the unhappy posts.
I guess I should stay humble as a lucky PC player of TSW but I genuinely think his forthcoming mod will make me care so much less about the other obvious fixes. That LO section is integral to the feel of the line, in the same way that the Bakerloo Line feels dead without 710s, 350s and 390s.
You won't even hazard a guess? It was down to DTG to ensure wcml was ready or not announce the route at all till it was ready. Fans are not to blame for this, nor are they to blame for coming on the forums and expressing their displeasure at a poorly executed route. I know it might send all the fan boys worlds into a spiral, but if players didn't say anything nothing would have been done and the proof in that is how wcml was launched. And you say DTG won't fix wcml any faster despite what we say, you really believe that do you? I don't know what knowledge you have about businesses, so let me explain, this is impacting on customer satisfaction, which in turn is also affecting sales, a business will or should aim for good/high customer satisfaction because it is good business, organisations who don't do this will struggle to survive. For example you buy a jam donut in Tesco, but it didn't have any jam in it, so you are not happy and therefore you won't buy another donut from Tesco. So, DTG have taken the jam out of our donut and I await for them to put it back because we all know they can make some really tasty donuts err I mean routes
If you believe that this mini drama over WCMLS is really going to wobble the company that is Dovetail you clearly don't know as much as you think you do, taking your donuts analogy for example, Tesco sell millions of donuts and I'm sure there are plenty that have no jam in them, also plenty probably complain about it and it hasn't effected the sales of said donuts. Same principle applies with the latest version of the game, plenty of people have stated their negative opinions on it here on the forums, but this is the smallest fraction of the playerbase, so the effect on Dovetails earnings on the game is going to be so microscopic they won't even notice it, so you will probably have to wait with your empty donut for a long long long time.......
Okay I’ve had a bit more of a look at this route. Can someone please tell me why there are Oyster Card contactless tap points at Tring? Like legitimately I’m struggling with this one.
Most of the 66's through there IRL are green Freightliner but I believe DTG don't have their license.
I have worked in business for over 30 years so I don't need patronising, thank you. Who ever said fans were to blame for this? I certainly didn't so I am not sure why you are making things up? Anyway I don't know why I bothered replying, some on here seem to read what they want to read, not what has been said.
The assumption being that the views of this microscopic fraction (as Ive seen those raising concerns described as) on the forums diverge from those that do not make their views known here. At the moment, I see no reason to suppose that the views expressed here should be any different from those found in the wider community. Just a thought.
I don't know you, so I only put an explaination in case you didn't know anything about businesses. Fantastic you have 30 years plus in business, lets hear your take on wcml from a companys perspective? If a business you worked for turned wcml out, what would they have done, would they have launched an unfinished product?....? In terms of fans taking the blame, as soon as someone says anything against TSW or a DLC fan boys jump to its defence. You are not one because you said you are not playing it, you are wiser, you will wait till it gets fixed, so any guesses when as you have 30 years?
If the company I worked for sent out an unfinished product it would have dire consequences for peoples safety so the two companies are incomparable. I don't have an opinion or any knowledge of how long patches will take as I don't work in the industry, you clearly have an idea so how about you share your wisdom with us. Anyway, I switch off when someone uses the word "fanboy" so enjoy your Sunday gloating, I have work to do this afternoon.
Do I think my opinions are going to "wobble" DTG? Oh, let me answer that with a question, do you seriously think my aim is to "wobble" DTG or or...bear with me, here is a crazy idea, get DTG to fix wcml that they shouldn't have launched in the first place in that condition. In terms of DTG won't listen to a fraction of the player base, you are absolutely right, but then why have DTG agreed to start doing fixes to wcml? If it is only a fraction, it makes good business sense to have your player base happy or as happy as they can be made.
I am not gloating, I was only looking to tap into the 30 years of experience you had working for a business. Anyway, enjoy your Sunday, don't work too hard it being a day of rest n all
. You know fully well that fixes and patches for bugs are just the standard procedure for literally any and all games from absolutely every game company, so trying to frame it that because some people are venting and posting negative opinions is the only reason they are fixing it again just proves how much you don't know about general business practice in the games industry, at this point you really are just trying to bait an argument out of people, it's really quite patheticly sad it has to be said.......
DTG will be concerned about the negative comments here and elsewhere and will try to fix as many of them as possible. Those who aren't impressed but are on PC can look forward to some fantastic mods in the very near future. I'd put a 2-3 week timeline on the first significant patch from DTG. No amount of hang-wringing and guessing about the intentions of DTG and their partners will speed that up. So for now, those who don't like WCML South but have bought it can register their unhappiness by not playing it. DTG will have access to all the stats for every user. And those who've not bought it or got a refund can wait until they feel the product is worth buying. For both constituencies, an element of patience will be required. DTG know what we're not happy with and are taking all valid, constructive criticism on-board. It'll get there, for the time being go back to your favourite route and enjoy that for a little longer or, like me, maybe use this time to learn how to drive new rolling stock in other countries.
