This is indirectly about the new releases but it's not a winge about game crashes (hopefully they'll be rectified pretty soon) or the release of another incarnation of TSW (that's just Dovetail decisions), This is directed at those responsible for creating the DLC routes and while I don't like to moan as I think for the most part these are fantastic and I have no desire to "count rivets" I feel I have to make an observation, Having just played on the new San Bernardino line I can use this route as a prime example of what I'm on about, Looking at the in game map you can see It's not really an over spectacular route, some nice sized yards either end and it's pretty much a straight line in between, but along the way there seems to be some decent little yards and Sidings, Unfortunately if you try to venture into any of them you get presented with this message "End Of Session: You've reached the edge of the represented area", (more on that later) Now with all the previous incarnations of TSW up to and including TSW3 the game was primarily centered around "Scenarios" and "Timetable" neither of which allowed you access to these areas (even though they were included in the in game map) but I guess they probably looked good in the background so it wasn't a real problem, But now since TSW4 we have something new, "Free Roam", But it would seem that the routes are still designed around that old template, Now some routes go in the opposite extreme, like Fife Circle where not only can you enter these yards and lines but in a few cases can go so far in to them that you eventually disappear off of the map entirely and enter a strange world of pixels, polygons and assorted geometric shapes, So now a plea to the route developers, going forward would it be possible to consider the "Free Roam" option and if it is visible on the in game map (complete with working switches) could you please make it accessible or remove it from the viewable map, And if we reach the boundary of the game please give us a permanent red signal that cannot be cleared rather us being thrown from the session as if a signal has been passed at danger and sent back to the main menu, plus if it can't be accessed why make it available as a destination when setting the route, Anyway rant over, thanks for listening.
That was really well put. Nice! I do agree, it would be nice to have some indication of what is and isn't accessible. With San bernadino, however, inaccessible yards have been fenced off, so that's a step in the right direction.
I remember a funny thing about BML (yes, I know it's pre-free roam route), one of possible pathes from Victoria towards Clapham Junction, where the AI dispather could direct your train, resulted in being kicked out to the menu... And it was still a valid piece of track connecting two locations available in game.
I suppose the issue could be that if the dispatcher couldn't direct you to an out of bounds location, then it wouldn't be able to direct an AI service out of bounds.
Fully agree on your post, nothing worse than recreate a fully modeled area and restrict this for the player with the invisible wall... A superior example is buxton station on peak forest. Fully modeled in detail and restricted half upper part of the station. The worst thing, after so many reports specificly about this, DTG never cared to make it accessible. For me DTG is back lacking things on a point i stopped tsc entirely and dropped all content. The preservation crew was dropped, remasters happen "as i heared", as a project in the freetime of passionated employee. I bought TSW 5 yes, but currently only planning to buy JTs wcml full price.
Yep I agree, if you look at the map for London Commuter, Hove is featured with all platforms. So I spawned a train, thought I'd drive it.....and got an "End of session" come up near the tunnel. There are several other stations dotted around the map that can't be accessed either. Why? They are on the map, they can be seen by the players, there are services to and from those stations, I'd quite like to visit them as well.
Ive noticed in a lot of routes large areas or branches that not accessible why put all that in there if cant access it ..maybe they could have longer routes if they wouldnt put all that inacessable track ..or open it all up so can go anywhere no hidden walls or get end of session because you went off the playable area..
Anyone remember Toton on MML? Talk about dangling a carrot! I tried going back there recently but now it’s completely inaccessible. That’s doubly annoying, as we know that the track was laid and they simply didn’t finish the building models. I keep wondering if it’s ever going to appear … for a brief moment it looked hopeful with the announcement of the MML freight pack, but sadly no. Seems like a major omission to that route to me
I remember going into Toton early on i also thought they would open it up with the freight paks ..Also went into Ratcliffe Power Station ..havent done that in a while ..is that still accesable? I just read a article that today is last day for Ratcliffe they shutting it down for final time its the last coal fired plant in Britain it said .
Because they are there irl as immediate scenery which would look really off without and autogen tends to create more track than necessary.
Yep, that's why I don't use Free Roam. Such a shame that one can't explore the little spots where you never come during scenarios and services... DTG should sell white t-shirts with 'End Of Session: You've reached the edge of the represented area' on it
Yep, I'd buy that t-shirt !, I'm hoping one day that we never have to come across that message in future routes but I don't think anything will change, I don't think anyone is listening
Hi Squonk - Thanks for the feedback, and personally I very much agree (I love finding ways to clip out of bounds and into areas in games that aren't usually available to the player, just to get a better view or to enjoy seeing things from a new perspective). I will check in with the team if there's any technical reason for the limitations to the player boundary, or if it's a specific design choice to have included. I doubt we'd prioritise creating a new function to allow access outside of the map in these areas, but it can be something the teams consider
yeah I'm having this frustrating issue too. whilst making the timetable for salzburg - rosenheim I am having to change multiple shunting trips to be shorter as the limits are very short. the track at freilassing being only 250m until you hit the marker. and at salzburg to go under the bridge is also the limit. making one signal and multiple siding tracks unusable. I haven't tested rosenheim yet but it wouldn't suprise me if the whole yard there is inaccessible too. you have to hide portals somewhere but please put the limits after signals and not 10 to 20 meters in front of them.
On the map it appears Hove has a station but they are only markers. There isn't anything modelled, no platforms etc.
After the poor release of the Oakville route DTG stopped putting track that was inaccessible on the map for a while. I think it should be brought back to an extent, at least with inaccessible yards so it is clearly indicated where you can't go before you get there, or worst case get kicked out. If not, some indication that an area is out of bounds would be nice at least. For example a warning in game or a different mapmode.
One of the biggest ones is Bernina Line, yes I know its rivet, but we only get half the line. Yes I know that’s normal for rivet but the tracks are layed all the way to Saint Moritz with signals and even scenery modelled. Yes the scenery is basic but look at Arosa line, it’s probably better then that tbf. The line is “inaccessible” after Ospizio.
I might need to have that required for my timetable mod. since I don't want to have people stop 20 meters in front of a signal that if they do drive hudless or think, eh, misplaced marker. I'll go to the signal and get kicked out is something I don't want as it is very frustrating.
It's a handy mod to have. Opens up loads of opportunities. There are parts of routes that are modelled but inaccessible.
yeah I had it for the fife circle rework. hadn't tested it yet. but I am working in the editor next to playing so I do like to keep my mod list empty for the editor as it isn't too happy with them. I also like to keep my timetable mod in a state where it doesn't require 10 other mods to even function. of course custom formations for missing stock ingame are needed.
It's not ideal when you download a mod, to have to download several others. Sometimes it's unavoidable.
I downloaded the free tsw5 starter version and added 30 of my favorite routes from various countries ..all my US routes since i am in US ..as far as tsw5 routes i just not feeling excitement anymore especially US routes and lack of freight even starting to feel this for my UK EU routes ...Honestly I am getting burnt out with passenger content too much focus on that and not much given to freight operations ..i just cant find myself to open my wallet on any tsw5 content now or anytime soon.. Tsw5 has been the least exciting release to me i really hate to say this but its how i really feel.. Tsw 4 my excitment started going downhill ..tsw and tsw 2 and 3 were the best they gave both US freight and passenger routes ..i got into TSW for the US freight not passenger ...now there is too much priority on passenger in US and freight seems abandoned..Iam going to abandon TSW till US freight makes a honest comeback ...if it dont then i will invest in franchises that DO deliver decent US freight content regularly..
Just buy other games for freight instead of waiting. Freight will depend on 3rd parties because dtg are having trouble with access and players want near perfect dlc and dtg can't do that without detailed reference material
T Thats what ive begun to do but ive had to switch to PC to get decent train sims that deliver North American and other countries for freight and better variety of modern and classic older operation ..just a shame that people that tied to consoles and want more of that type of stuff are tied to tsw console domination..i know if trainz comes to console even if it is more model rr like but consoles need something that will deliver content that tsw isnt doing or will never probably do ..
Sorry, just don't buy it. DTG and 3rd parties have plenty of US locos in their catalog and route information is not that hard to come by. Something else is at work here. Maybe they just don't want to do US freight for economic or personnel reasons. And that chimera about US fans always wanting perfect locos and routes is just that - a pretext for not making them. Show me some posts about wanting " near perfect " US content. If they can mix some freight into passenger routes, they could build new freight routes - if they wanted to.
So far ive gotten into Train Sim Classic 2024 and Trainz 19 and 22 I downloaded recently Sim Rail demo but they have no US content yet although a few have said in other forums on here there is some us stuff being worked on ..plus sim rail is also too passenger train oriented as well ..i only buy from Steam so the talked about run 8 is not a option not into modding or 3rd party e commerce stuff so dont want to hear it about that....tsw is not better on PC so i wont consider tsw for PC its same content otherwise ..we just need some more good train sims on console to give DTG some competition and gamers more choice and options
I also agree with your statement something else is at play here...i dont buy there B.S about having to get acess etc all we get is run around and every sorry excuses in the book..
Well without access, they can't get real sound recordings or get photographs of the tiniest of details or get information on how the operations work. Players got very unhappy when dtg reused class 66 sounds for the ace because they didn't have any sounds.
Players have basically told dtg repeatedly to not bother making freight routes because it's not good enough. They get upset for incorrect sounds or not having this or that and many other reasons. Dtg aren't able to meet all those demands
News for ya, their attitudes are changing. The unbranded LNWR 350 has already been accepted because they couldn't get the license for it. I'd imagine the same will happen soon enough for sounds.
DTG already have plenty of detailed locos with acceptable sounds. They used them in SBL for example. Searched for that and came up with nothing. Without quotes or citations your posts are worthless. As usual, I think you're just parroting what DTG have said.
You realize that not every operator will allow dtg to record sounds right? Again, you are making an unfair comparison. Metrolink allowed complete access to everything and created entire new services just for dtg. Freight operators give zero access to everything.
Besides the up coming Boston Commuter in the tsw5 reveal the locomotive they using is a GE passenger gevo has the gevo 12 in it soooo DTG got acess to record the gevo 12 engine its the same engine that GE uses for their freight locomotive s shouldnt be no excuse they cant do a ES44AH or ET44 they could even do a freight class70 for UK class70 is a uk gevo similar to a ES44 in US as far as the class66 sound being used its the same or very similar engine thats used in the US SD70 models i run the SD70ace a lot in TSW and the sound is reasonable to me it fairly close enough ..you just always on here fan boy soupport DTG defend them and drink DTG kool aid or are you a DTG tester employee.
also most of the player base on here if they were blind folded and a video or recording of a class66 SD70 SD70ace was played most wouldnt be able to tell the difference except those with well trained ears for engine sounds same with the GE es44 gevo models..
They can always synthesise the sounds. I'm sure no one would mind that in the interim until it becomes possible to record actual sounds.
They don't need to. They have perfectly acceptable sounds in their back catalog. The poster you quoted is completely missing the point. As usual.
Getting back to the original point... If you find any areas on San Bern where you're kicked out without it being obvious that's going to happen - let me know, we put the fencing in to prevent people from getting into places that could happen so in theory everything should be blocked off. If any have been missed, I'll get that fixed. Opening up areas? We did that a lot on San Bern, went back and opened up a bunch of stuff - the problem is that while it looks like it's all modelled and suitable, it really isn't and doesn't stand up to the rest of the route - plus, there's the scenery near it to consider. When we model, you've got "touchable" areas which are the areas players can actually go right up to like the track. You've got "near" areas where the player can't get to, but they can get potentially close to, and then "far" which are beyond that usually distant scenery. If you push the near and make it touchable, then something that was far now becomes near, so all of that has to be upgraded. The quality level that was acceptable in that far area, is no longer acceptable if it becomes a near area and same if it now becomes touchable. It's not just that bit of track, it's everything around it. When building a route, we make a call on the scope and amount of work required based on the amount of time available (and no, you can't "just give it more time"), consider the priorities of the route and then balance things out. San Bern as an example, is primarily a passenger route so things like the station areas and other areas traversed by the passenger trains should be prioritised. Sometimes even then freight sidings might have to be done to a touchable standard because they're literally right there, and then it's a case of balancing that against what other aspects would be interesting to include like the freight sidings - do all of them badly? or pick a few interesting ones and do them nicely? I appreciate everyone would like time to be infinite, but that's the harsh reality i'm afraid, it's not. I'm trying to get more put into things like the freight sidings but again, even on a freight mainline, if excluding some sidings might get me another 10-15 miles of mainline and that gets me to a better end point - i'd possibly make that call, unless the local stops were actually the more important aspect of the route and a longer mainline run was less important. There's no single golden rule, it's all a balance, and the beta team (which includes a wide range of enthusiasts across every spectrum of interest) are a key part of that discussion, and indeed why freight sidings were better represented in San Bern. But, when it comes to sudden out of bounds kick outs, I hate those personally too, and the goal is now to block them with something obvious in the world like gates so that you don't just play pot luck. If it looks like you can go there, it should let you go there, if you put a mod in to make it so you can go through fences though - kinda on your own Matt.
Yet, someone built some of the freight scenario's where you go into these fenced off areas and they are incompletable. How the hell do you mess up a timetable service like that?
Scenarios? Services? Can you get me details... Probably when they built them, the end-of-world markers weren't in yet, and there was a miscommunication about where they were going and where they thought looked safe to route things. It happens. Matt.
Why not fix it then instead of fobbing people off with "it happens"? Some bad attitude you have towards paying customers, sort of explains the state of the game...
The one I encounter I already posted in the feedback thread, some others say some weekend services have the same issues, but no one named services.
It didn't strike me as 'fobbing off'. Matt was probably answering the question above: 'How the hell do you mess up a timetable service like that?'
On the subject of fenced off areas. I had to go on a long walk to access wembley depot as there is no quick travel to this location. Along my way I clipped through a wall and landed on the A406! Thank god for abs brakes.
Thanks Matt for the thorough and informative response (and for bringing this this thread back on topic) I think maybe I'm a unique player in that my main focus is the route and much less the stock, That's why free roam is so important to me in that I can use any route no matter which country it originates as my sandbox area and I can fill it with whatever stock I choose, and then move it about the map from yard to yard, so in that sense for me a more compact map is preferable to a long stretched out map, so a map of 40 or 50 miles is of less interest to me, but of course that's just me and I understand most prefer it the other way round and enjoy the longer routes, so I fully understand your comment regarding the original intention of the route, be it compact or long distance is what takes priority, But for me even an unfinished siding or yard is usable, its frustrating to see it on the map bur can't access it in reality, maybe either remove it from the map or open it up with the caveat that it may not match the render quality of the rest of the route, Not all routes are like this, I mentioned San Bern because it has a lot of "kick outs", However I'm discovering that on the WCML everything seems accessible and some of the yards especially around Wembley are huge yet on San Bern you get kicked for a tiny single line siding ! It's disappointing because one of the first things I do on a new route is go to the in game map and see what I've got and what potential is available, I understand opening up the already released routes would be a problem but maybe it could be considered for future releases and despite what you have said about time maybe these routes deserve more time, I'm sure most players would prefer quality over quantity, That all being said I still think TSW is a fantastic product and well done to all who work on it.
We went through a phase of literally only showing on the map exactly what you could access and the overriding feedback at that point was that it removed "context" from the map and you couldn't see other useful things in the track that might give you more insight about where you are and so forth - so we have started putting some back in response to that feedback. As I say though, any kickouts on san bern that are not clearly marked by a gate or something, let me know, there was a whole package of work we did to gate off areas like that and it sounds like some were missed. Having a whole yard available is little extra work if any really. A single track that wanders off to the distance for a bit and winds around an industrial complex is more difficult to model and needs specific effort on it. That's the main difference between the two. As I say, we did quite a few, but we didn't do all of them, that was the compromise that we settled with. Matt.
and give the player choice of colours on the map to make things more clear, since it is often rather confusing?
