Very Poor Communication From Dtg

Join the discord then....
https://discord.gg/trainsim

 

2 different types of routes. Wcml is much more complex with more stations and complicated scenery.

Also 3rd party vs 1st party. 3rd parties tend to have much more time to create their routes. Dtg has to create much more because that's just their business strategy. They couldn't just create 1 dlc every other year

 

I disagree. The current passive approach has made me feel collectively as a community that we have to nag and stomp our feet to be heard. Even if no timeframe can be given, I feel some sort of acknowledgement would provide reassurance for many.

 

No.

 

Why? You are complaining about communication, right? The CM’s and Devs are very active on the discord.

 

Maybe the point is they should be more active on their official forum, than a discord server that’s essentially a constantly moving chat.

 

I have to say, apart from the fact that DTG are neglecting their communication towards us, I do miss the times when Dimitri and Sam were here…

 

I don't use Discord because I don't like Discord, this is about the official DTG forum not Train Sim Communities Discord channel, this official forum should absolutely be the first point of contact with its player base, you are just being obstinate if you think otherwise.

 

JD is too busy becoming a TikTok superstar! (Seriously).

 

They did communicate, despite having nothing concrete and saying so. And of course that is now being claimed as a promise to deliver not kept and more of the same communication that's being misrepresented is now being demanded. This is exactly why DTG says they hesitate to give speculative release dates or more than the loosest timeframes, because people insist on taking "maybe" and "hopefully" and "we'll try" as an assurance carved in stone, and then reacting badly when it turns out to not have worked out.

Many of the decisions DTG makes in dealing with the community are learned behavior as a result of dealing with the community. Possibly not making DTG regret giving the communication asked for would be a good first step in getting more of it.

 

Stop defending the undefendable.

DTG haven't acknowledged or shared with the community the exact list of bugs they are trying to squash and optimise, so the expectations of the community are that everything is going to be fixed in one big patch (or a whopper of a patch as JD calls it), which is then going to cause further bloodshed when things aren't fixed in the patch.

While I understand that things change and that they cant give specific timescales on fixes, they could at least give a "roadmap to redemption", but instead their management prefers them to pump out the hype for a £30 DLC that probably won't work properly with the current state of TSW 5.

 

It possible that this one depends from which PC's you use for development?
I've already asked this for the Road map stream but you missed it; maybe your PC have some better configuration than us can have?

 

Or how about this as a form of communication.

"Sorry there are delays, no patch this week"

See, that's all also communication, instead we just got silence again while people were asking about it.

 

This is perfect communication from a developer to it's community.



Take notes DTG. It's ok to delay something if it's not ready!

 

That kind of response from a dev is what we are lacking from DTG, even if they did one at this stage, it's too little too late.

 

If they want to learn how to "Dev right" just have them sign up to the SCS ETS2/ATS forum.

 

The problem isn't communication. The reason they don't communicate is because they have no good news regarding bug fixes etc.

 

Uh-huh....

 

The reason they don't communicate is because they know damn well they've overhyped the LOVE out of the product yet again and now don't really want to face the music, rest assured July, August, Sept next year they'll be communicating all the new and improved features of TSW6 though.

In fact the quietest two were the loudest pre- launch hyperboles JD and Matt.

Why break a rinse and repeat cycle when they know it works, money's still going in their bank.

Tbf I'm enjoying TSW5 but that's not saying I'm happy with their lack of communication, so yes I'll be hard on them till they prove otherwise.

 

well, if they say sth and people dont like it, the forums burn... if they dont say sth, forums burn as well... I dont really know why ppl are trying to spin almost conspiracy-level stuff as to why DTG does or doesnt communicate (like ppl shopping at a bookstore think, for some reason, that we try to hide books from them or that we have some mysterious storeroom where we have long abandoned treasures, when we dont find or have sth they are looking for)

they are a company and as such when there is nothing new to report, they dont... if they dont yet have some bug fix or arent sure when it is available, why would they talk when they dont have tangible stuff in their hands? etc

also some comments here or in similar threads often try to attribute some evil intentions to them... while there might be some level of corporate greed at some higher levels of management, I mean, sometimes it sounds as if the only thing they thought about was how to torture pure gamer souls and squeeze every last dollar out of us on purpose if one believed all those comments

I mean guys, think about it, a little bit... they have to make decisions at various levels, sometimes they pan out well, sometimes dont

 

TSW 5 was like a route bundle to me. Insted of "features" they maybe could work on the fact that many cabs (where you spend most time in game) look like they have stadium spotlights shining into them. That this is not the most pressing issue in the game for bug fixes really shocks me... but wait, it gets worse: they don´t even acknowledge is as an existing issue!!!

 

There needs to be some transparency from them. I get the feeling they are going to abandon TSW 5 earlier than normal.

Pretty sure TSW 6 will drop gen 8, and will also make a big leap in UE4 builds. Hopefully they get to grips with it, and leave it to fully bake in the oven before pushing it to the BETA team that is the paying public.

 

You're happy with lack of communication, that's fine.

Others aren't, I'm one of them, especially because when Sam and others were around we had constant communication even if it wasn't something we wanted to hear but we were kept in the loop. But since the days of Rush Hour when the initial release broke the game for Playstation users and we had two weeks with no communication, we are getting a teeny bit tired of it. They are quick enough to want to take our money off us, but hesitant when it comes to being open.

 

Much as some on this forum would hate it, I think DTG needs to follow the Blizzard model for estimating timing on patches: "Soon(tm)" or "when it's ready". At least it would stop hope being misinterpreted as promises.

 

That’s what they have done, they hoped that the patch would be out by this weekend.

 

It was mentioned that all the Devs use high end systems,in the last stream.Related to choppy performance on pc not showing up on their systems.
Also the console dev kits not showing the issues most of the console players have endured since launch.
I'm sure some on the forum could be trusted to help out with testing without causing another drama/leak.
It's a painful wait for the consoles getting the update, I'd rather it be right than quick.

 

This right here! This is what I and us as a community are asking for

 

Well that's my point entirely. DTG doesn't have a communication problem, they have a bunch of other problems that they get asked about.

 

Thanks for everyone's input on this forum, it is really good to hear that people have the same/similar view as me and Yorkshirelad
Going to say this now, If I don't see a mega long patch list for WCML South I will go completely nuts!

 

Sorry, I don't believe it's indefensible, and you certainly don't get to dictate my opinions or whether I can post them. For my part, I believe many of the complaints are nonsensical and intended to do damage rather than get results. Haven't tried to suppress people torpedoing their own credibility, though.

What in JD's post (https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/very-poor-communication-from-dtg.86032/#post-914412) or the screenshots he quoted didn't cover your two paragraphs? It specifically says that "we're still finalising the patch and compiling the notes", so there's no exact list yet. They did nonetheless list what they have.

And what's your definition of a "roadmap to redemption"? They've said the big patch will be released as soon as possible, and that more patches will be released in the coming weeks.

 

What more communication do you want?

They have been very clear they are working on fixing issues, they said they were hoping to get it out this week. It didn't happen nor did they say it was for sure coming this. They said we will get more info when they know more.

Just because you don't like thw answer does not mean they are not communicating.

So you want to go back to the times of Sam and Demitri. When there were promises made that never came true. Or when the plan was too big to deliver so things got cut back. With community backlash I might add.

If they communicate honestly people don't listen anyways. It took 3 months from the time they said they were stopping work on Steam before people finally accepted it. So if you don't like what they say then holy crow look out.

Why would they want to communicate with this bunch of over reactors because a video game is not perfect.

Would you rather give you a list of everything that they are working on for the patch and then upon release say sorry we couldn't get these things in for patch in the end. That will go over well.

We are not their supervisors or bosses, they don't need to report daily work being done. Next you'll ask for a list of when washroom breaks and lunch breaks are taken too.

Comunication is just fine.

 

So people shouldn't complain because you're fine with how things are, Nonsense.

Rush Hour broke the game for PS players, for a fortnight people couldn't access their DLCs, no communication at all from DTG, A fair few players uninstalled the game and never returned back to it.

When Spirit of Steam was announced in a blaze of publicity people were delighted, Steam had been asked for since day one. Crewe to Liverpool in the 1950s was a great choice and visually it's still a stunning route, we were promised layers for it with future DLCs, then it was very quickly abandoned when various faults were found and future layers dropped, people bought the game purely for the Steam, then Peak Forest was announced in a blaze of publicity, the 4F was a great addition, but having the route end at Ambergate instead of Derby was an odd choice that didn't improve relations when we were told it was ended at Ambergate "Because they couldn't be bothered to go to Derby", but the route would definitely get additional layers and a footpath people could walk on, it was quickly dropped and a third party is now working on it. Again, no further communication from DTG about the route and patches.

Then steam was dropped after Flying Scotsman was released. Not a popular decision by any stretch because people were enjoying it despite physics not being accurate. No communication except to say it had been dropped, then US Freight was dropped, a major aspect of the game dropped. No communication.

Now WCML south has released with a half finished timetable, various crashes, lighting thats broken, no Suspension system despite it being a year old. We were told that "Hopefully a patch would be released within a week" and what do we get? TSW5 free starter pack is extended until next year...by the way when that happens it's never a good thing. It means sales/downloads are below expectations and they are desperate to shift units. No communication from the DTG staff at all until people kick off wanting answers and even then it's a generic "We're still working on it" answer.

So no, Communication isn't good. It has to be a two way street, they want us to part with our money they have to keep us updated, back in the days of Sam etc etc, he'd be in constant communication, telling us why something hadn't been released when "promised" and agreeing that it wasn't good enough.

 

aw come on, please dont put words in my mouth or overinterpret my intentions, pls ... I just dont expect wonders... when you have this sensitive of a fanbase where even a couple of badly chosen words can send the forum into a frenzy, they have to tread very carefully, so I get why they communicate the way they do

it's not like the communication couldnt be better, it can always be, but I am also not second-guessing stuff out of thin air about them... they create stuff, sometimes it is good, sometimes it sucks and they have to salvage the situation... and often stuff that we think is super easy to fix isnt as easy etc.

I dont wear rose-tinted glasses, but I also understand that they are only human

 

a bit of a light-hearted side note - recently, an investigative journalist website in Slovakia published an extensive article on a religious sect/cult thats "secretly" worshipping Vladimir Putin, has direct connections to FSB and such, and there was a mention about the books they publish and bookstores that sell them (as they are usually sent to bookstores by the distribution company)... one of bookstore chains had a cool response like "ok, this one slipped under our radar, we will look into whether we continue selling it or not"... and the chain I work for, our PR department issued a statement like "we are a bookstore, so of course we sell books"

now THIS is poor communication... my soul is still crawling in sewers just thinking about it

 

I apologise, I just find it frustrating.

 

I find frustrating that ICE-T has that AFB bug where it locks throttle whenever it is braking under LZB... or that 112/114 brakes suck... and a lot of other tiny details most ppl dont even notice cos their brain isnt ********ed up like mine ... so in the meantime, I am enjoying what I can, and wishfully thinking and hoping that one day I see Vienna content in TSW (RSSLO, where art thou? )

also, when TSW ... me off, I turn on DOOM Eternal, Space Marine 2 or sth like that

 

I apologise for my post if that's offended you. Wasn't meaning it to be taken the way you've clearly taken it.

In answer to your question about the "roadmap to redemption" part. If DTG had actually fixed problems with the core updates since many things that were reported since TSW 2 and cleaned up their coding, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but they are still making the same mistakes because bugs from 3 to 4 years ago are still causing issues in the latest version. That's what I mean about redemption, it's the same wash, rinse, spin repeat cycle with them. They don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

 

I can understand the patch being late, but at the same time announcing a new DLC for October 29th, no.

 

But we wouldn't actually get anything more in the way of patches. That is the fundamental problem, not anything to do with communication.

 

The question people need to ask themselves is do you really want them to communicate more about what they're doing? A lot of what they say doesn't happen as it is, and you're wantting them to tell you more of what they're working on that'll likely never come?

 

You don't think that different people might be working on the route to those working on bug fixing?

 

I think it's more complicated than that and there are resources that could be allocated to bug fixing/finishing unfinished features that are instead going to the creation of new DLC.

 

well, our money needs to keep a regular flow into DTG's account to pay all those staff, managers, teams, freelancers, and what else
A GBP, an hour of work, can only be spend once
so obviously, given the complexity of developing on UE for TSW, choices have to be made, corners need to be cut in development, as long as the masses of thumbstick warriors don't complain ...
however, it seems to me DTG are at a crossroads regarding the advertised hype preceding the release of TSW5 and it less than favourable reception, where expectations weren't met by the quality of the released product
more of the same, be it one handle plastic EMU's, short commuter routes, more of the same kind of bugs, omissions, more of the same excuses, it doesn't seem to please even the most ardent fanbois anymore?

 

Usually, first and foremost, the people developing it fix their own bugs, in the sections they have worked on, teaming up with others where someone else's section of code is interacting and is/might be the cause in part.

 

But with the amount of bugs across all areas of TSW 5, I can't see this not being a all hands to the pump scenario to fix things with all other in house development pausing while everyone gets on with fixing things.

Literally every aspect of the game currently needs a fix or optimisation. From code to sound to scenery.

 

That's not how it works I'm afraid - for the DLC part (core is something different). And this is exactly what explains that seemingly easy fixes don't come. The people developing content are working on their next assigned projects. You can't just disturb them, once QA signs it off for release their job is done and the next one is in progress.

It's like an assembly line. I've worked there in my youth, assembling heavy duty planetary truck axles and differentials. Once something goes wrong, someone else is trying to fix it and you're continuing your work on the next aggregate. Production must not be delayed, that's why there's a dedicated small team that gets its orders from the support team via the Jira system of filed bug reports in case of TSW. DTG may have staff that can be quickly reassigned, some specialists. But they can't do all of the work that their system produces.

And many things reported here will probably not be addressed - the best way that's also recommended by DTG is to file a support ticket. The forums are good though for the first step - seeing if others have the same issues and check if the issue can be reproduced and verified being a bug (not glitch or user error).

 

can we please stop using this kind of condescending labels? some railfans idolize steam trains, some like diesels, some modern rolling stock... there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with liking modern rolling stock, including EMUs... y know, from some railfans' perspective, they may not be as cool or engaging, but they are workhorses that keep masses moving effectively without losing unnecessary time uncoupling, shunting and recoupling locos etc.

and some railfans, including myself, actually like those EMUs and enjoy seeing and driving them in-game... see, for example I dont care about steam locos and only recently I have learned to enjoy some diesels... but because I enjoy different content, I dont belittle fans who prefer it... pls respect your fellow railfans, it is not that hard, thank you

 

Who said anything about complaining?

This is about communication and communcation is just fine.

I said nothing about people complaining or the fact things are broken.

They can't give us info if they don't have that info. Or are they just to make things up.

Where did I say people should not complain about the state of the game?

 

Communication is very much an individual thing, but let's try and put it all in to context.

If you're heavily invested to TSW the current running total for your collection of products is roughly £3000, and that is a LOT of money invested in a product.

When you weigh up the investment Vs the level of quality of the product, when it's constantly promised that things will get better with the next release, and they don't, you'd expect the developer or product owner to be constantly updating you on what they are doing to fix the problems, we aren't getting that, we are getting false promises and silence.

While release dates can't be guaranteed with patches, release windows and what they are trying to resolve are to be expected regularly, again we aren't getting that at the moment.

Again you might feel different, but you're allowed to feel like that, but it's clear a majority of people aren't happy with the current communication from the developer. You've got respect that it's all individual.