In real life both the London Northwestern and Avanti West Coast trains go to or through Birmingham New Street. So when I load into New Street on the Redditch to Lichfield line, I don’t see them. why are they not added in does anyone know? It’s horrible seeing New Street like a ghost town
Because that route was made long before DTG even started working with WCML. They couldn't add layers for the trains that didn't exist back then (in the game).
Unless they have left blank layers in the timetable supplied then to put them in would require a new timetable, which is a lot of work. As said above the BCC route was created long before WCMLS. I would like to see them in New Street too but I think you will be waiting for someone to create a new timetable, or maybe some new DLC with a new timetable. I still enjoy the route, there is a busy Cross City timetable so you are regularly passing trains, even if it isn't as busy as it should be.
I quite often spawn a class 44/5 or a 47 on a train starting at Bromsgrove to re enact the days I worked on them on Bristol - Sheffield trains 1960 - 1980 era just ignore the wires! I can get to just past New Street or visa versa. I suppose I could create a scenario with heaps of stuff in New Street. All the fun of the game.
The expansion prospect for BCC is huge, probably the biggest of all existing DLC. Mentioned it before, be very surprised if this doesn't recieve a extended SEHS type release in the next year or so.
So are you stating that it is completely impossible for them to Edit a already existing Timetable? I don't believe that would be the case at all [they have edited them in the past]. Also the majority of the Routes are bare empty, I can easily spawn Trains in a Timetable and travel through Routes with not too much issue. There are some situations where the Signals don't apply, but nothing is stopping DTG from simply tweaking a few things. Also, they would have a internal long term Roadmap setup, they would have known this is a Route that would come in the future. 2 Years since TSW3 [Birmingham was release I believe], is certainly not much time in the Development World. If they honestly don't have long term Goals, then.... -smh- So in reality, it is VERY possible for DTG to start placing other Loco's amongst Timetables, however they choose not to put resources into doing it, it's not going to increase Sales for WCML if it had Layers for Birmingham or not and vise-versa, Layers don't sell DLC.
Why wouldn't dtg leave blank layers in the timetables for future releases to be added to the routes? If it can't be done that easily and it takes time and money, why not charge a small fee to add the layers?
It would still take a lot of time and resources. To make it an official project, they would have to pull people from other projects and affects their development. They are constantly working on other things and remasters are driven by a passionate team member in his own free time
BCC would need a major overhaul to add these layers. personally I'd expect DTG to hold off on it until there's at least one more route added terminating at New St, so they can work the new AI services in to BCC based on the playable and AI services developed for such a route.
Time and resources eh? Look at how Modders, in their spare time, have re-created a much better, if not FULL WCML South timetable, in what..... about a month? even less? Surely it wouldn't take DTG too long to add 350's and 390's to BCC as it's their Full Time Job!
Do you go to work for free? I want them to add layers, but don't expect anything to be added without a cost. Remasters of old routes with TOD4 is one thing. Timetables and layers is always gonna be paid content. I would much rather they did a proper extended version with new loco's including those from more recent routes.
Where did I say wanting to add layers for free? I mentioned time and resources. If DTG were to charge a few quid for a full timetable of what current stock is available added to BCC then I'd happily pay.
They don't have a million developers around to do stuff. Their timetable devs are busy with other projects. I don't think they have the time to go through each route to give them an overhaul without stopping their current projects entirely and then those never release
DTG really need to lift their foot off the throttle pedal and assign more resources to fixing and enhancing existing DLC. It's shouldn't be all about maximum profit pumping out content, but quality of life too. Okay it may be slightly less profitable in the short term but it would be sure to reinforce customer loyalty, which in the end would mean a larger and more stable player base (player engagement, word of mouth, etc.). Is this likely to happen? Probably not, but maybe one day it will if someone, somewhere, has any common sense and a commitment to DTG's long term future.
Too many people not being reasonable in my opinion. Adding layers would mean a new timetable which isn't a five minute job. Modders can do it in their spare time. Personally I would rather a new route and a new train or a new train for BCC with a new timetable rather than them spending time just making a new timetable which will still use the same train but just adding in some new traffic at New Street, which would be nice but in my opinion isn't going to make a massive difference to the route.
How would it mean a new Timetable? Please elaborate on the facts that you know, because from what I know as I said earlier, I can place a Loco down on any Route during a Timetable and have a successful Run, including in Brighton Mainline which is the busiest Timetable I play. Timetables aren't "locked in" once they publish it... there is this thing called "edit" where it allows you to adjust your already existing work, just like they have done previously when they have altered existing Timetables. So why is this so impossible that it would require a brand new Timetable when there is plenty of VERY LARGE gaps in the Timetables that can allow for several new Services to be placed uninterrupted by any AI as it's so scarce. So again, too many people making excuses in my opinion. The REAL reason they won't put resources into this, is also what I said earlier. Layers don't sell DLC. Full Stop. They don't want to spend resources on something to provide us with improvements on already existing Content because it's not going to provide them a direct income for the work. THAT would be the only reason.
From what I've seen being said on here, more than once, that unless the layers are already in the timetable they can't be added. That is why they have been added to the new Cathcart timetable but not Cross City as the layers were included as they anticipated the new DLC. I plan on delving into the timetable editor myself but haven't yet so can only go on what is being said. I might be wrong of course.
Seeing the 375s and 465s coming in and out of London Victoria makes a massive difference. So does seeing the east Midlands trains at St Pancras, or the appropriate rolling stock on any route, weather its just a quick glimpse of it or not. If dtg are going to continue to make routes that could be busy but aren't ever going to be what they should be, then that's the massive waste of time and resources. A bit like sos. Maybe they should take sim out of the name and call it train world.
I would like to see the layers added to BCC as much as the next person. However I enjoy BCC, the cross city timetable is accurate and busy, the 323 well modelled and on the whole the route is well modelled and represents the real life line well. So for me I am glad they made it and it wasn't a waste. When it was made it is likely the concept of any future WCML routes was a long way off.
Yes, but that is just from the Community just "assuming" as I've never seen any facts, and the only fact I know is, is that DTG HAVE altered Timetables. Yes when they are Developing a Route, if they are also currently working on a standalone Loco for a already existing Route that was recently released, then yes, obviously they would save some time and hassle to prep for it, that's a no brainer. No one expects them to prep for every possible Loco that "could" be released though. Again though, it's possible for us to plonk a Loco down in a Timetable and successfully run a Stopping Service. DTG have altered Timetables, it's possible. Layers don't provide a solid income to justify the labour.
Well maybe someone with more knowledge than either of us will confirm either way. It doesn't make sense for them to do it on one route and not others though. They are a business so projects will be costed and assessed for viability just like pretty much any other business.
Yeah bcc is a good route although Birmingham new St seems like there's a rail strike going on. I think dtg have some idea of what routes will be likely to come in the future. It wasn't that long ago when Joe added playable freight services to London to Brighton. I wonder if he had to completely redo the timetable for that.
I asked Matt on his charity stream about adding the 350 and 390 to bcc and he said there are no plans to maybe it could change at some point it's crying out for more trains on there
Whilst I agree that New St is a ghost town, devoid of life, even passengers, it would be nice to see more traffic at the station. I would however prefer DTG to add addition routes in and out of Birmingham stations. Many people have made suggestions, myself included. Birmingham is the second city after all, yet the central West Midlands has a single route. Scotland has 3, I have lost count of how many routes there are in the South East.
Yes agreed. The Snow Hill lines are quite interesting, I'd like to see them modelled but I do live on the route. It would be interesting going from the city with it's modern signalling down to Worcester with it's semaphore signalling. I think Walsall, BNS, Wolverhampton then onto Shrewsbury would be an interesting network. Again especially Shrewsbury with it's mechanical signals and the iconic signal box.
Whenever I board a Birmingham train, I prepare myself for the inevitable, as it seems that the combination of baked beans and the cramped seating arrangement creates a perfect storm of farting that could rival a brass band.
There's many steps to creating a timetable. Insert the service. Then it has to interact well with every other service and go down the right path. Other service timings might have to adjusted and if it ends up being a lot, then that's a lot of manual labor so every service works seamlessly. Then there's testing and fixing. None of that is easy and it requires a full time dev who may not be available if they are working on other projects all the time
Yes it would require extra work, but as I keep saying, I can drop Loco's down in a LIVE Timetable Service, and run Trains around that aren't locked to the Timetable with very little issues. I've so far done a 6 hour straight Session taking my personal Train where ever I want and it has NOT affected the current Timetable, this is on Brighton Mainline with all Layers active. This involves doing Passenger Stopping Services, Freight, Shunting, Transporting. Again, 6 hour session without reloading and it did not mess with the current Timetable once. So if I can randomly drop Trains down and it works fine, I find it baffling that people keep claiming that "it requires a brand new Timetable", "it's a lot of work", "not possible". It is very possible. I literally do it all the time. So again I'll say, it has absolutely nothing to do with it not being possible, or being "too much work", it simply comes down to "Layers don't sell DLC". Why spend money on something that's not going to provide a direct income? People seriously need to be realistic here. This is Dovetail. They aren't here to provide us with a happy Train Game. Just to make money and nothing more.
Putting a loco down in free roam (which I presume is what you meant) isn't the same as having it as a timetabled service. You can put a train down, yes, but for it to be always there without player intervention, it needs a timetable to adhere to. That's where the problem lies. You've got a train, you want to add it to an existing timetable. First, there needs to be space for it. That's the easy part. Then you've got to make sure that this new service or services won't mess up with other services within the timetable. You can't have two trains leaving New Street to Bromsgrove at the same time, following the same pattern, using the same tracks, platforms etc for example. That just won't work, so the only way to make it work is to rebuild the timetable. Then it all needs testing to ensure it works and doesn't break anything else. Which takes time. Precious time that DTG don't have, as well as it being financially viable to them. (And before anyone goes on saying modders can do it, they have the time and don't have a financial incentive.)
You can put Trains down in Free Roam, and you can also put Trains down in TIMETABLE. This is what I'm saying, having a extra Train with an extra Path BETWEEN the existing Timetable has been somewhat effective for me. I do this often with very little issues. - I load up Brighton Mainline TIMETABLE by Foot. - I have all Layers on. - There's active AI Traffic everywhere. - I spawn what I want. - I can do Passenger Services. - Freight Operations. - I can Shunt. - I can successfully run a 6 hour Session without reloading the Route while doing all of the above. - The AI do not get affected the majority of the time. There ARE gaps in Routes as the majority of them are ghost towns, how can you possibly think otherwise? I'm putting Trains down in a LIVE Timetable Service and I'm finding Gaps with ALL the Layers on. Yes there are instances where you will need to adjust things, I'm not saying you don't have to [infact if you read my other Post, I have actually said there will be work involved in doing it]. I can't speak for everyone else, but as far as I'm aware, no one has asked for a full blown 24 hour non-stop Timetable Service for extra Trains. We just want SOME extra Trains with the Money we have spent for what could be compatible to enhance our experience. DTG 100% can add extra Layers into past Routes with new Loco DLC.
There's no technical reason at all why you couldn't add more stuff to an existing timetable. HOWEVER, timetables are, by their very nature, quite complex and it's very easy to break them, so it can be quite easy to get to the point where starting over from scratch is easier and faster than trying to add new stuff to an existing one. Depending on how the original timetable was made, how complex the new services are, and most importantly how the new services interact with what's already there, adding new stock to an existing timetable, even just as AI, can be a two hour job or genuinely impossible unless you re-make the whole thing. I can understand why DTG doesn't make any promises about this sort of thing.
If that was the case everyone would've been doing it before Free Roam became a thing. But they weren't, because they couldn't. Extra trains can't be added to an existing timetable, unless the timetable was built with space for them. So if a timetable wasn't built with an extra train in mind (either as a layer or substitution), it would need to be rebuilt to accommodate it. You can't fill a jar with coins if it's already full, there's no more space. Timetables in TSW work in a similar way.
However much work it is, the 350 and 390 would only appear between the west end of New Street station and Proof House Junction and at Lichfield Trent Valley. None of these services would be driveable and would likely make previous generation consoles crash. Seems like a lot of work for little benefit.
I could be wrong here but I'm sure DTG added 800/801 services (maybe others too) on the GOBLIN route release on the section where the ECML passes over, to see those you have to specifically walk to that location as it's not at a particular station you see these pass? However, at least on BCC you would see stopping services at Lichfield Trent Valley and the 390's flying through and you'll still see them coming and going whilst you wait at New Street. All worth the work as far as I'm concerned, but that's just me, I like to see routes full of life and not like a deserted desert during COVID with the odd tumbleweed passing through every couple of hours.
So I understand that adding new services to an existing timetable is a lot of work, if the existing timetable doesn't have the spaces for the trains. But if dtg are making these timetables, pretty much on par with the rl timetable. Why wouldn't they add all the rl services to the timetable, with the exception of some services not showing because they don't exist yet. Obviously when the services or trains are added at a later date then they will appear in the timetable? Like wcml for example. If you don't own the 390 or goblin you won't see either trains. This doesn't effect the timetable in any way. Yet if you didn't own either but bought them both they would then show up on the timetable. Don't give me no nonsense about dev time. I'm a paying customer, I expect to see what trains should be on a route if the trains exist. Fawx has created the real timetable for wcml, single handedly in a couple of weeks! Yet dtg can't add the extra layers in when making their timetables?
Good points. On sehs as you exit the tunnel towards St Pancras, there's a very short section of the Thameslink line passing under the bridge, with 700s running along it. Very hard to spot, yet they are there. That's how it should be.
Does this give dtg an excuse not to add the services to the timetable when creating it though? Like our government have they no imagination beyond today.
Yes. If you use a placeholder train there's always a chance that it won't actually work when you switch it out for the correct one.
So I read this, open TSW5, and recorded this quick run in Brighton Mainline where I place a Train down near Selhurst and take a trip to London Victoria successfully during a Live Timetable. - - So yes, clearly it is very possible to place down a Train and run a Service through a Live Timetable. Simply because you may not know something, doesn't mean it isn't real. Yet I just did just that didn't I? No, because the Routes are so empty with plenty of space to allow for extra Traffic. I just put 1 extra Coin in. So clearly as the Video shows, you can easily fit extra Services into already existing Routes. Again, no one is asking for a crazy busy timetable for extra Loco's... we just want a little more traffic. I play the Game like this often, and again, I play long Sessions without reloading and do things like this, from here to there, there to here, here to there, for 6 hours, and I very rarely come across any issues. I'll say yet again, the REAL reason DTG will not do this, is because Layers don't sell DLC... So why put the effort in? That is the only reason.[/QUOTE]
This is what they should do then. Put in a place holder for all services on a route. If the appropriate stock is added at a later date then switch it out. I'm curious as to what the place holders are on wcml for the 390 and 710?
