Why Is The Heavy Freight Being Forgotten?

The main reason I purchased TSW3 and TSW4 was because of the heavy freight part of the game, as the passenger trains don't really interest me. In my opinion, there should be equal attention placed on both categories, as there are fans for both. It's a shame the things we get in TSW5 are just recycled from old games, whereas the passenger trains are getting new DLC's and routes. I proposed a DLC for a new heavy freight route located in British Columbia, and although it received good feedback, I am certain we won't ever see another DLC for heavy freight. I am a fair bit disappointed Dovetail is focusing solely on that aspect of the game. I feel either could add value to the game as that's what a lot of the long-time fans are disappointed about, is the reused content. Even just updates to old DLC's like the Oakville Sub DLC which was fairly small. Anyways, that's just my two cents about it, I still have hope dovetail will release a new heavy freight DLC in the next while.

 

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feel the same way DTG seems to have dumped heavy freight ..seems nothing promising in sight they need to step up and put some priority into it. But the way things going with tsw5 things just looking more bleak..they say freight dont sell but ive had several friends that were wanting to buy tsw4 or 5 until they found out the poor stance on freight they decided not to buy it they also not happy with just US passenger route only ..im to the point myself im about to give up on TSW if we dont see anything positive in heavy freight or freight in general..there several others on here that have said they should change name to Passenger Train Sim World

 

Just in case you weren't aware, I've attached DTG Matt's response on the matter. As for freight itself, if we keep fighting for it, DTG will see that the demand is still there and still strong. The only trouble is that it's exhausting, and sometimes feels like it does nothing.

 

i honesly dont see freight making much a comeback seems none of these freight railroads here in the Us will ever open their doors to access ,it getting very hopeless , all these RR paint heritage unit s guess we will never get CSX heritage units in TSW cause they wont allow access or any other freight RR ..plus the license issues thats becoming more a issue ..i implore a US freight RR step up and open the doors roll out the red carpet for DTG to get access ..show us what good public relation s should be..

 

It seems to me that DTG should risk the slings and arrows of "no new loco" and do a route making use of the stable they already have: ES44s and SD70s represent the most common traction on US and Canadian rails today, so they might as well use what they have. Even if, yes, they can't get access for sound recordings. They could make up for it by adding new freight cars, and maybe even fixing the load bug which prevents livery substitution (the biggest immersion breaker in TSW is US freights with long strings of identical cars)

 

Are the sounds of ES44s and SD70s acceptable in their current state? I don't think people will care much for cars if the sound isn't right.

Also, haven't they already done this with the MP36 that Matt mentioned?

 

Yeah, i think that's a pretty good idea.

I wouldn't mind seeing the CSX Dash-8 make another appearance. One of the Florida or Georgia routes would be a nice change of pace from the usual mountain terrain.

 

ya the MP36 has a similar sounding engine as a SD70 even the F125 too the same with the GE passenger engine for the up comnig Boston the same engine is there thats in a freight model GE Wabtech ..those same engine sounds from the class 66 UK could be used for SD70m SD60 s etc they could make ES44 s the ES44c4 sounds could be used the C40 8w from sand patch sounds could be used for a C40 8 c44 9w b40 8 w ....but all we get is MOOOORRREE excuses that stuff cant be done ..

 

Passenger tsw would be even more misleading. Freight exists in many dlc even if it's just a few or a lot.

Also an mp36 doesn't sound like an sd70 and the f125 is totally different to the hsp. They don't even use the same engines

 

The SD70ACe needs a bit of work, not to mention we still lack the ISO cab variant of it, which DTG forgot about in the BNSF DLC.

The ES44C4 as it stands, is a decent locomotive, and should be used as a basis to build the other GEVOs currently rostered by the class 1s, (ES44AC/ES44DC/ES44AH etc) since only 2 railroads own the C4, BNSF and FEC. Skyhook should also update their NS ES44ACs with info from the C4 as well.

Though there is still underlying issues with US freight in general, based on comments made on the TSC discord.

 

then Dtg will give excuse we cant get access for good photos of a iso sd70ace .. Honestly the lack of ISO cab on the BNSF 70ace dont bother me much ..and i run the 70ace s in TSW i even prefer running them over a GEVO

 

Except for the fact that BNSF will not let non ISO cab SD70ACes to lead their trains

 

Personally, I don't have much interest in things which aren't an intercity run, preferably with a big noisy piece of British engineering in front. However, I do really enjoy TVL and really must revisit it in the near future as it is a great route with a freight focus. I just think it is slightly let down by its length and now outdated lighting.

 

Yes. I and others have pleaded with DTG many times to just use the stock and sounds they have in the back catalog and just make new routes. But this suggestion has fallen on deaf ears.
Route information is not hard to come by these days.

 

Maybe stop trying for class 1 railroads, and try class 2 or 3. Or even try heritage lines for older loco sounds. My local "Conway Scenic Railroad" would probably be willing to work with the community. They've got all kinds of operational stock. They have ex boston and maine GP7 High hoods, something that's been asked for for a long time. And regarding being able to record all power notches, can't they just notch the engines in neutral like they do for "load test"?

 

Some trains sound different when stationary and when running at speed. So for example the es44 sounds different when doing a load test compared to running at speed and you can't capture the sounds at higher speeds if you can't go that fast

 

Would like to see some more us freight getting made such as donner pass.
Would also like to see some more f units, maybe some e units, and definitely some emd high hoods such as gp/sd 7,9 etc

 

They gave us some SD40 and ES44 yard switching duties (Layers) for San Bernadino which would be nice if it wasn't so buggy. Had to abort 3 duties now due to dumbo AI locos blocking the way. One, after about 30 minutes play was blocking my way to the final mark but lucky I was able to push him to the mark and complete lol. Very annoying.

 

The alleged non cooperation of the US freight railroads does not seem to be posing an obstacle to Run 8 who just released another substantial extension to their SoCal network - Fresno to Modesto with both the BNSF and UP routes included. Now another flat drag over the central California plain in scenery reminiscent of MSTS in 2002 doesn’t quite hit my sweet spot, well not for £35, but seems to me either Run 8 are doing it without the blessing of the freight railroads or they are far more savvy at getting the approval to continue with their project.

And other than research, there’s certainly nothing stopping DTG going in and recreating some more vintage routes from US freight such as the Milwaukee Road from Avery to Drexel as featured in Trainz years ago. Long closed, no licence required and I for one would take a flexible approach to the depiction of the route and the trains, even if the Little Joes sound like a Pendolino!

 

I have that MILW Avery Drexel route for Trainz got it in the steam summer sale soupposedly there is a Milwakee Road route in the works for TSC and should be getting Bozeman Pass also for TSC thats set in Late Great Northern early Burlington Northern era ..recently got a UP scenario dlc for Feather River Enhanced route so at least some US content on DTG s TSC but TSW NO Freight content in sight zippo nadda nothingg just put offs the usuall we cant get access license s on and on..

 

I saw the TSC route in production. That might even get me to try and get TSC running on my potato laptop. Still very much enjoy the freeware MSTS/OR Milwaukee electrics even if it’s rather janky to get them working. The old electrified lines in the US fascinate me most and I’d love to see something like the Milwaukee in TSW.

The old electrics are rugged and simple and therefore all the more fun to operate than modern computer-controlled locos. You could even have some passenger stuff on there if you wanted but that would also require building appropriate coaches.

For sounds, really electrics make your life easier. The main sound you’ll hear are fans (just see the German 103/110/155 for comparison) that are easy enough to get one way or another. Apart from that you have electrical buzzing (generic enough) and more difficult perhaps traction motors. The last you can get from other electric locos even if it might not 100% match, but what is your basis of comparison if we’re talking about ancient box cabs or quills? Are there even any recordings of them without the fans running? I thinks there’s also an operational South Shore Little Joe in a museum, so that might be workable for sound recordings.

I do think that the Milwaukee road should get a serious look by DTG. Especially if they do decide to get some passenger stuff in, they might entice people to get into it that skipped something like Clinchfield. Hopefully one day.

 

I hope the Trainz Simulator Console edition thats rumored to be in the work s since they have a voice audtion contest .I hope they can have some decent US Canada content ..they do have a decent amount of US Canadian stuff on their PC steam version ..Trainz 2022 and 19..will be interesting to see what they come up with for console version

 

I like the main selling point of Run8 but can't get past the awful graphics and draconian payment / install system.
The devs need to drag themselves into the 2020's. They'd probably sell far more too.

 

would be nice to also get a GG1 E33 E44 electrics the Pennsylvania RR had i enjoy playing the GG1 that came with the Washington to Baltimore NEC route in TSC 2024 bonus edition i purchased to get it..

 

Exactly particularly buying from the UK when you have to pay a currency exchange fee on each single transaction. Also to the best of my knowledge, Run 8 have never had a sale or discount even on their most ancient content. The industry gameplay is good, but as you say the old graphics make it hard work and I rarely play it for more than a few days consecutively.

 

im just going to say im done with TSW i am now soooo fed up with this franchise ..not spending another dime on this game ive already spent too much money on it and this US freight debacle and the way DTG is treating this issue is a slap in the face and middle finger .to paying deticated customers that want US freight to have more significant presence in TSW ...they say freight dont sell well ive got some news for DTG Matt JD and the pull up management. Several friends of mine were very interested in buying TSW 4 or 5 when they saw whats going on no new US freight they were turned off decided not to buy and have told me ppl out of my circle saying similar no new US freight no buy .

 

I am also sick and tired of the put offs and sorry excuses they feed us..and we all on these forums have given them some good ideas suggestions and they just shoot them down and same old excuses again and again ..no sense to beat this dead horse no more

 

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Id bet if run 8 somehow would put their game to steam store they d get a lot more sales ..

 

Okay man, we get it, but your rambling is getting a bit ridiculous, lol

On the record, there is a Santa Fe gameplay pack coming up in the hopefully near future. At least that's something to look forward to for US freight fans.

 

sorry but i have the right to speak my mind as well as anyone else ..like it or not

 

And THAT right there is why we can't have nice things.
Because they aren't "perfect" to a few subjective people.
I am happy with the existing US freight locos in game.
There's a couple horns that aren't great, but overall they're 95+% accurate and that's enough for me.
However, there's always the perfectionists who will never be happy.
As the saying goes.. "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

 

That won't satisfy the 80% of DTG market that is on consoles, which is a major sticking point.
That is TSW's "niche."

 

You're assuming Class 2 and Class 3 don't drive at track speeds? He didn't say "heritage" or "museum."

 

Perhaps US freight would sell better if DTG actually fixed their routes. Look at the recent thread about Sherman Hill...

 

Yes you do, but try saying it in 1 or 2 posts instead of 6 consecutive tiring entries, even replying to your own posts
Or are you just trying to boost your message score?

 

One thing to note is to look at the owners and developers of Run 8....


If you note some of their photos, it looks like most of them actually work for the railroads, which in turn gives them easier access to both how locomotives and railroads work, sound and look, as well with the operations. Something that DTG really cant get. Its the same reasons with Searchlight Simulations equipment being so good in TSC as well, most of their dev team actually work for the Class 1 railroads as well.

Its just something that DTG, a UK based outfit with not much help from those in the US, will never fully get, on top of DTG having to restrict themselves falling into actual licensing agreements, where Run 8 I believe doesn't deal with any licensing restrictions, because their software isn't on a major platform.

You're telling me they got a deal with Taco Bell to use their logo in the sim? Highly doubt it.....

 

Run 8, Sim Rail, etc.... just seem too small to target. They're more hobbies than major businesses. Why sue people with no money?
Now someone who has released on consoles to a far larger audience....
*cue lawyers salivating*

 

Despite all the talk of access and other problems from DTG, I still find it very hard to fathom what has happened with the production of US freight routes.

Starting with Sand Patch and all through 2018- 2023, there was a fairly constant stream of US freight content from DTG and partners.

Then, after Cajon Pass, US freight simply fell off the cliff. And now we're facing a future without it.

DTG can come on the forum and protest all they want about US freight still being in their plans, but we know that's likely not true, given the lack of any routes or locos on the Roadmap.

I personally believe that the explanation for the absence of US freight lies with a combination of lack of desire/ effort, absence of suitable personnel and a high level business decision, possibly from Focus but certainly well above the pay grade of anyone we hear from in the forum.

 

Possibly, not to mention US freight ranks pretty poor, especially when it comes up in polls on here, with majority of players either not favoring it, or outright hating it.

Really makes it hard to work from a commercial standpoint.

Still find it sad that Clinchfield, despite being unique, sold the worst of TSW2 content at the time....

 

I have a hunch (can't back it up) the freight people mostly just went to other platforms. Can only speak by my experience, that of friends and youtubers, etc. I've noticed trends in railfanning that could explain much of it.
The "casual" freight people are on TSC where it's still very popular. The "hard core" went to other sims like Run 8. Then there's the slices of players who are into Railroader or Railroads Online, etc.
Since TSW was created for consoles, with a focus on modern commuter it's evolved to embrace that more and more. As a consequence, the freight people have been left behind.
Sounds like a self-perpetuating cycle.
If you make less for the people that are already a minority, they keep leaving.
Eventually the trickle dries up.
Not saying that couldn't change since many railfans aren't only focused on one thing, but it becomes a much harder hill to climb as it becomes less obviously profitable. If say 90% of the market is passenger-focused, and maybe 80% is for "modern EMUs", the amount of US freight fans is just too small. Railfans are alweady a small group. The computer gamers even smaller. The US ones even smaller. The freight fans even smaller.
The only group that's really screwed is the (relatively) tiny group of freight fans who are console only.
They really have no other option currently.
I'd guess they just get by in TSW with the existing content and "free roam" additions.

 

I think based on what Matt has posted from time to time, WE killed it: nit-picked it to death. Way too many comments like “if the sounds aren’t live sourced, don’t make the loco” and the usual chorus of rivet-counter complaints. Hell, DTG did everything one could want from a survey in completely overhauling the MP36, and the boobirds still carped. And so Matt has taken us at our word:”If it isn’t perfect, don’t do it”

 

Personally I think that's more of a convenient excuse - DTG has proven plenty happy to release not-perfect content.

 

Sorry, don't buy it. Yet another " apologist " excuse.. Judging by recent releases from both DTG and partners, " perfect " is not job one.

 

In my case I like both: the European trains (both freight and passenger), and US ones too.
The difference I noticed is related to "time to play".
If you are short of time or prefer to do different drives, you can do more on European ones.
Of course it is a matter of speed.

But apart from that, we are still missing European modern (mostly german ones), and for longer distance EMUs!
Mainly double deck ones!.
Looking at the future new releases, it seems there will be no news.
Of course the new Holland route it is welcome for me, with 2 new completely trains!
But both of them are single deck ones.

 

So you went on a US Freight thread to ask for more German EMUs?

 

There's more money to be made there. If you combine low income with lots of bitching, then it's not worth it.
If it's bitching with good income it's much more tolerable.

 

Reminds me of modern movie directors.
Director: "If you don't like it, then don't watch it!"
*Audience doesn't watch it*
Director: "Why the hell didn't anyone go watch my movie? It's YOUR FAULT!"

 

Ah, sure, it's the consumer's fault for wanting good product for their money. Lol. Could we stop with the bootlicking?

I mean for starters, the same comments are constantly heard about English and German trains as well. We have german EMUs with reused wrong sounds, routes with low level dostos where high level ones should be used, english trains without branding, incorrect english trains cosplaying as their similar looking models to fill gaps, etc. Yet I don't see them abandoning those two countries just because they can't be 100% accurate.

It's understandable that making US freight content is more difficult. I believe them when they say they have less licence possibilities and less access. But the biggest issue is that US content is simply far worse than anything european. Every US freight route we have is also the typical slow crawl though mountain passes. So less gameplay appeal (not everyone enjoys slow running), lack of variety (all routes are similar) and/or the route is just straight up bad.

So they are making lame US routes, as a result they sell badly, and now they say it doesn't worth it making them so they don't want to. Well, this is not what they are saying, but this is what is happening. So no, WE didn't kill US content - DTG is just not making them as good as english and german routes, so noone cares about them anymore.

I mean just look at how much layering european routes get. US routes barely get any layers even where it would be appropriate. Or how european routes keep getting remasters and new timetables. What is the US getting? A paid re-release of an old broken route - sure the new LIRR is great, but the same thing would've been a free update if it was a british or german route, lol.

 

Ah yes... the whole "if you don't agree with me, I'll insult your motives."

*slow golf clap*

Very original.

I don't entirely disagree with all your points, but why must it immediately be insulting in tone, which keeps people from even considering your arguments? Tact is as important as content when trying to have a civil discussion.

Vehemently screaming "bootlicker" at people isn't productive at all.

It just makes it less likely people will listen to you.

 

I always wonder with this topic, how much would it actually sell if DTG went in, put in their hard work and made a memorable US Freight Route.
Because it's not like they're popular pieces of content. Alot of people, just looking at forum suggestions and polls are more in favor of Modern Passenger routes, or older UK routes (I think, not sure on the UK part).
Clinchfield for example, despite being a beautiful route that stands out quite a bit, didn't sell too well. I'm not saying i know anything about DTG's operations and whatnot, but common sense tells me it's not cheap to produce the route.

I personally, would love U.S Freight Routes, if there was more to do. I would love it even more if PTC was actually modeled into the game, so I'm not just solely watching the vigilance pedal... if it even works that is.
You also have the railroad companies themselves not wanting to give DTG access to their stuff, which is even more of an obstacle. Yes, you could just recycle trains we already have, but we'd end up just constantly recycling old things onto new routes again... like the Class 66.
They could make Class 2 and Class 3 railroads, have a better chance with there being more tasks for the user to do. But then there's the uncertainty of who would actually want to buy Local Freight Routes.

Take into account that Focus probably has some say in the decisions, and It becomes not that much of a mystery why there hasn't been any Freight focused routes recently.
Resources and time that's spent on producing a U.S Freight route Is time and resources taken away from other countries and opportunities that would in theory sell better and satisfy a larger part of the community.

Now, excuse me but I'm going to get a little naive here, if not too optimistic.
However, I don't think it's entirely dead. Just that TSW4 and 5 may not be the "cycle" for it. Maybe in TSW6, we'll get one that's actually entertaining, maybe even an old heritage route, something memorable. There's alot of time for planning, there's also alot of time for companies to change their stance on distributing licenses.
Alternatively, it's probably inevitable that a 3rd Party Partner will step in and fill the gap as there still IS demand and market for these routes, meaning money to be made. If they make it an outstanding experience, more people might be willing to give it a try and therefore more customers.

It'll come around again, at least that's where my faith stands.