With all the complains I see every day on the forum, I'd just like to take the time to appreciate the game for what it is, and all the work that goes into it. It's not perfect, but I consider it 90-95%, and that's impressive given the huge scope. Sure there's always things that could be better or added, and there's places where fixing a bug exposes another one, but this is reality. In any endeavour 95% is pretty darn good. On a report card a 95% is an "A+" in grammar school. Anything over 90% is an "A" level. In college a 90% is about a 3.7 GPA, which is really good. I'd challenge anyone here to say they are 100% perfect every day in everything they do. It just doesn't get appreciated enough that it takes a lot of hard work to get something even approaching playable, let alone to the level of playablity that TSW has, which is arguably on par with the best competition out there. (Different perhaps, but up there since other "sims" are PC only and have far more limited scope) I just want to say "thank you" to the people at DTG that work hard at improving the game and trying to herd the cats of the player base. You won't make everyone happy. That's just the nature of the world. I however can see a lot of what's intended and what's been accomplished. I've led a lot of teams, worked a ton of projects in thankless roles and it's rough. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. That last 10% is often the hardest of the whole project, with conflicting priorities and visions of what "perfect" even looks like. It must be a passion project. It won't stop future criticism even by myself, or suggestions of what I'd personally like to see (or can see as good for the brand) ;-) I just wanted to say that I appreciate what's been done so far, and while buying the products is one way to show that appreciation, it should be said with a voice and not just impersonally with dollars. There are many out there who just quietly appreciate the experience you provide to do things they never could without this product. Where else can you even pretend to drive a train and see places even virtually that you wouldn't otherwise? Especially on console? And with the scope of the project spanning several continents? I can only speak for myself, but I don't criticize out of disappointment or scorn, but rather out of a desire to see a good thing be even better. As it is, a lot of the criticism seems to be that "last 10%", which is a good thing. That means the 90% is working well and in the Army "good enough" was a way of life. It's all too easy to be paralyzed by fear of imperfection which leads many to not even start projects or abandon them. Sticking to it has a value of it's own, and providing that 90% is a huge benefit to the community. As the saying goes "The perfect is the enemy of the good." So don't get too bothered by the nitpicking. It just means that the basics are sound and the majority is working as intended.
I appreciate dtg alot. Got big respect for the for all the devs. And 3rd party devs. Its just in my nature to be a whiny human being most of the time.
When you are paying £30 for DLC, you are allowed to whine and complain as much as you like. Constantly blowing smoke up any companies arse just makes them complacent and not have any incentive to improve.
You have the ability to complain yes. Others have the ability to judge if your complaints are worthy too. Goes both ways.
I don't think I'd be who I am today without Train Sim World. It really is a fantastic franchise, and I hope it all the best in the future.
Quite right. People don’t like an honest opinion, especially when it doesn’t fit their narrative. I’ve been very disappointed with TSW this year and that is why i only plan to buy two routes day one (Tadami line & Just Trains WCML). I didn’t think it was possible to change your username on this site?
People who provide criticism just want the game to be the best it can be. This game is advertised as an authentic simulator yet there are those who are shocked that players expect what is advertised especially when they are charging $30- $40 for DLC's. I'm sorry that there players that don't have low expectations but frankly if people didn't criticize the game and offer constructive feedback, then the product would just not improve. This is a good game, but the issues shouldn't be excused just because the product is "playable." Many video games and are "playable" but can get mostly negative reviews for a reason.
There is no doubting TSW is a good product. It is clear that a lot of effort goes into making it what it is and I’m grateful for that. My gripe is that there is no consistency with the quality. When DTG knock it out of the park, they knock it out of the park. But then they go and spoil it all by doing something stupid like WCML (not the only example). Consistency needs to be more consistent. This is the 5th iteration of TSW, so we shouldn’t be seeing the same issues we are seeing. It’s not unreasonable to expect better when DTG have shown they can do better.
Aha, you guys are funny! Before aeronautic237, I was aeronautic236. I would like to thank FredElliot for asking. I would like to thank Beyonce for making me aeronautic238. I would like to thank Spikee1975 for reminding me to thank Beyonce Maybe aeronautic239 will come one day!
You're also grading it on your own personal idea of what "100%" is, not every other player's idea, nor the developer's. Therefore, if your vision is different to begin with, the other players and developers will never reach your vision that was different to begin with. Even throwing around words like "sim" or "authentic" are highly subjective. They're aren't well defined. They are entirely dependent on an individual's perspective and expectations. Even if the developers meet their own wild ideas, they would still not meet 100% of players' expectations which started off different so they'd still "fail" to many people. There is no "perfect." Even making 90% of your customers happy all the time is near impossible from a practical standpoint. I'm wondering how many people have ever had to run a business and deal with customers on a regular basis ;-)
Those words are pretty well defined so to act like it isn’t is just false. DTG are the ones saying they want to make a realistic simulator and That realism is a important aspect of this game so it shouldn't be suprising that people expect that. Your expectations may not be high and that is fine. Of course you are not going to make everyone happy but that doesn't mean that customers should just lower expectations. Yes players will have different expectations but it shouldn't come as a suprise that when DTG do make good routes, that they expect constant quality and when the quality isn't there compared to a previous product, that there is criticism. There is a reason why people do "complain". You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't mean the criticisms are without merit or reason. There are players that will not have low expectations Just because a developer may not meet everyone's expectations shouldn't mean that a product should come out with loads of issues even if those issues may not bother you. There is a reason why a product may mostly get negative reviews. People who do have criticisms are the ones do more to get this game improved than those who may not have an issue with a product which and if improvements do come based off of feedback, it benefits everyone in the end
Or long standing issues that have been, and still are ignored. The long standing issue of z-fighting on Xbox for instance. This isn't a subjective issue, like the placement of assets, or the colour shade of ballast. It's an issue plain and simple, that shouldn't be there. Certainly not for this length of time.
And yet after about 3 years of trying to get them to talk about it and another year waiting after that, the ultimate answer is they ain’t doing nothing about it. That answer only being contained in a few seconds of a single stream.
Yep. And going forward is no answer to a problem on released dlc, I didn’t purchase the dlc to put it aside for a technical issue I didn’t agree to. It’s not hard to understand the expectation of basic quality. if they expect me to abandon my collection and buy new content that must be humour I’m not following, surely no professional company offers that in response to a customer and product issue. and best of luck trying to get it through that it’s happening on TSW5 content, it only took about 3 years for a response of doing nothing about it for TSW2…
Again... "expectations." Some are valid criticism, such as the suspension taking a year longer than advertised, or some glitches and stuttering or some locos won't work on free roam. However, much of the "criticism" is more different expectations that weren't advertised or maybe even thought of by the developers. I can't recall anytime they said they were going for a "perfect representation of star constellations" for example, although people seem to think this is "standard." Also older routes not being updated yet to a standard that didn't exist when they came out is not "the minimum customers can expect." No one said all criticisms are unfounded or petty. That is false on YOUR part claiming that. And no, there's no definition of what a "sim" is in detail. There are 7 different levels of aviation sim for example and all of them are "simulations." A class 3 is not the same as a class 7. I get the impression people are expecting to get a class 7 simulation on a class 3 budget, then complaining when it "doesn't meet (their) expectations." Your expectation is no more valid than my expectation as equal customers, so trying to pretend that it's somehow more authoritative is doomed to fail on the merits. I'm measuring them based on what they've released and been trying to accomplish, not what could conceptually be done in theory. It's unfair to measure by what possibly could be in theory vs what exists in reality. In theory you could be a billionaire. Does that mean if you aren't a billionaire you're a total failure?
I’d give it a good 80-90 if they took major issues with a working towards approach and responding rather than abandoning as a principal. Hard to justify 25% when we can’t reach that though.
And as I have said, you don't have to agree with the criticisms. You may think it's not valid, others do not. There were criticisms for example due to tsw4 for being a paid update. There were those that defended it but it was those criticisms that resulted in the free starter pack. Players will not have low expectations as you do and there is nothing wrong with that. At the prices they charge, I'm not suprised that players have high expectations. DTG are the ones saying that realism is an important part of the game so shock horror, people expect that. This game is advertised as authentic. Authentic means real. So shock horror, people expect that. Just because you may not expect that doesn't mean that others will have the same expectations
dlc has always been something of an area of discussion on the value compared to price, the fact TSW lives of it doesn’t help it in this regard. you can easily pick up a big title game for not much more or in sales less than the price of a dlc, things vary massively here and comparisons are pretty crazy. edit: I wouldn’t be surprised if theirs sales where you can pick up a COD and RDR2 for less than a dlc price, that’s pretty crazy to compare the resources that went into making them vs price, but definitely is the reality no matter the argument. The most common argument here is the market for what each will sell and profit margins between them, but as far as that’s concerned to a customer, they ain’t gonna care one bit.
And again... you're falsely saying that my position is "no criticism"... but that's not true. I think there's too much unfounded criticism based on unrealistic expectations... but that some criticism is valid. The whole purpose of the thread is to say that there are good things DTG has done and recognizing what they have done right. The whole rest of the forum exists to present criticism. But people aren't happy with only 99% of the forum to criticize on. Even the hint of an idea that DTG is doing something right must be attacked.
Anyone experiencing issues with the product are not upset at the things that are right with the product, you are mistaken that people reporting issues are unhappy with things that are working. If things ain’t working they’re will be complaints to that, when threads exist that come across as blind praise they are more likely to be picked upon that, that is not the case. These sort of threads don’t rub the right way especially during times when major issues are even more present, and thus they come across as blind praise even if they don’t mean to be. if you are experiencing a bad issue with the product the last thing people are gonna do about that is create and agree with threads amounting to high praise even if theirs areas what would justify high praise. Responding and dealing with the major issues is the best solution to this, not doing so will only prolong it to the point it feels like theirs nothing but complaints. Responses go a long way in dealing with complaints, even if a fix is months off, a response informing people of that is way better than leaving them in the dark. Though very importantly that such response ain’t abandoned.
I never said nor implied that you dont want to see any criticism. I read your posts. You think that there too much unfounded criticism (which I disagree with) because you don't agree, but others may think that there most of the criticism is not unfounded. I have said this game has it's positives but has flaws. They advertised this as a authentic (authentic meaning real) train simulator. We have seen DTG repeatedly state that realism is an important part of this game so it should come as no suprise that people expect that. You may not expect that which is fine, but others will. We have seen DTG make great routes in the past but quality is inconsistent which is what leads to criticisms. Players do have different expectations. There are those with low expectations and there those that don't have low expectations. There is nothing wrong with either but people who ultimately do provide criticism just want the game to be the best it can be and do more to get it improved than those that have no problems.
The shoddy job of the recent WCML attempt is enough to set my value at 25%. I requested a WCML remake in TSW for years, and all I was left with was heartache. I was like a wounded soldier on the beaches of Normandy gasping for air. A lot is riding on the Tadami Line and JT WCML otherwise I could be calling it a day with TSW.
It’s not good that but I can understand where your coming from, with the announcement they are not doing nothing about a major issue on Xbox, I’ve called my day on any more purchases, i would like that not to be, but I’m not in charge of that decision, I would just be crazy to invest more in game they are happy enough to leave broken, I wouldn’t accept that from any other place I purchased an item from so the same applies here.
And as I've said... you have every other thread to post complaints on. Yet the one thread that says "good job DTG you do some things right" is bum-rushed with attacks. Meaning.... you don't want to recognize that anything is done correctly. Otherwise you'd be using the whole rest of the forum to post those complaints. Better to post there in fact because those are specific areas related to each individual thing and not just a chaotic pile on. The fact that you can't allow one thread that's not incessant criticism is disproving the good intent myth. It's like taking the opportunity of someone's birthday to remind them what a piece of LOVE they are as a person.
when creating threads on how you feel TSW is going, don’t expect everyone to be a nodding dog of each other… everyone is welcome to share there view on the topic, especially when the thread is focused on how well TSW is going… threads what are critical are in no way all critical, they usually get the “here we go again” that’s called people sharing what they think. assuming people who have the more critical view don’t have any praise is the same as assuming those with praise think everything is all dandy… that’s just not the case I personally would like nothing more than to be in the all dandy position and nothing but praise to state, I certainly don’t take joy in trying to push for a change of direction, it more than 99% of the time feels like talking to a brick wall doing so, hence why I left the forums and only returned when this news dropped to try what seems like the last chance, most likely will be in vain, but what can I say, I thought the game was worth trying to push to be all it can be, I’ve invested many many hours in it, and wanted to invest more in it.
Exactly, too many routes in this game have been left to rot. Okay most of these are third party routes… Rivet *Cough*, but even still, DTG routes or third party should all receive the same attention and care. It’s nice to see some older routes receive some updates, like the upcoming GWE, but routes that are far worse like WCL I doubt will ever see any TCL unless DTG intervene and ask the third party devs directly. I don’t know how the process works, if DTG can ask a third party dev and ask if they can update their route?
No one wants to recognise the incorrect stuff either. Whether the thread is positive or negative, both sides will be given. That's just how it works. Honestly at this point you're just putting words into people's mouths.
Nobody has attacked you at all. You are putting words in people's mouth. People have the right to post whatever they like as long as it doesn't break the rules. People will agree or disagree with posts and there is nothing wrong with that. Happens all the time. Welcome to the forums.
No, there's 99% of the forum for criticism. Look around. Frankly it's "unfair" to assume that it's 50/50 across the forum. If you go on a thread that is for recognizing good things... and you post only bad then you are not in fact being balanced. It's like the guy who went on the US freight thread and ranted about needing more German EMUs. Yes, he can say whatever he wants... but it doesn't really fit there and adds nothing to the discussion when there are lots of other places to post that. It just shows wanting to take a LOVE on the whole original intent.
no persons view must be balanced… the reason no one’s view is the same is because they are different… off topic posting is something else entirely. but anyways I’ve said my say, and don’t have nothing more to add, farewell.
So are you saying that all the posts should be positive? This would be like saying that if there is a thread that has negative posts, most of the posts should be negative. The views on a forum thread do not have to be balanced just because you don't like them People will not agree with everyone's posts. To me it sounds like you can't handle the fact that people disagree with your post or have a different opinion
If now isn't a bad time, I would like to point out that it really is a silent majority who love Train Sim World. I didn't see it in perspective until this thread. EDIT: Wait, that came out wrong. All of us like TSW. I hope you get what I mean. This is why I'm part of the silent majority...
Most people obviously like this game . Even those who are critical like it. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be on the forum if they hated every aspect of this game
I think overall it is a good product and I get plenty of enjoyment from TSW. I do think they fell down with the WCMLS for TSW5 but I think they will make more improvements on top of the ones they already have. The other two routes are very good in my view. There are some interesting routes coming up from DTG and the third party developers. New developers have got on board in the last year or so which is promising. It does have it's issues and some of DTG's decision making leaves me baffled and frustrated, in particular their pursuit of steam and all the excitement and promise surrounding it which was then abandoned, leaving a massive part of railway history unrepresented (in any meaningful way). I do think it is telling that with all the negative threads on the forums, someone starts a positive one and soon it turns negative. Then again this forum can be like an echo chamber and it can be easy to assume that if 20 people say something on here it represents the majority.
Are people not allowed to have a different opinion on a thread regardless of one's view of the product?
Where did I say they weren't? it was merely an observation! For a start, I don't make the rules so I wouldn't even deign to tell people how to act, that is for DTG to decide. You managed to ignore the rest of my post, which also included some criticism and just concentrate on one sentence.
It was just a question because people will have positive opinions on a negative thread or different opinions entirely so I'd figured it shouldn't be suprising that people will have a different opinion. I read the whole post by the way. Just because I quoted one part (which was at the bottom of your post) doesn't mean I didn't read all of it
Yeah, I'm sorry. I should probably limit my interactions on the forums when I'm tired. Of course we all like the game. I know what I'm trying to say, but don't know how to say it. I tried editing it before anyone noticed, but it seems I was too late. I did not mean to undermine your opinion or anything. Your opinion is perfectly valid.
No need to apologize. I'm guilty of not saying something I intended to say or spelling incorrectly as well
Sheesh... almost nobody is agreeing with each other today. Anyways, DTG has done an incredible job not only making a new line of train simulator but also introducing it to the console platform. I'll give alot of credit to them for that as it can be Chaotic managing this many platforms. However.... they have a very long way to go, a very very long way to improve TSW as a whole. Which is why I definitely understand why some people might flood a positive thread, because the DLC prices are pretty hefty... even with the older ones. But, it's still important that time to time, we show just a little bit of appreciation. Because at the end of the day, alot of us love this game and just want to see it improve and heal.
I understand why it may sound unlikely, but I am 100% perfect every day in everything I do. If you would like to fund my perfection, then I accept paypal, crypto, or bank transfer.
This thread is a perfect example of why I couldn't care less of what anybody thinks about this game/SIM, not pointing fingers at anybody but to be honest a lot of people seem to have set their expectations on such a royally sodding high pillar that I'm starting to wonder if even reality can get near to it. The way I look at it is I enjoy the product, I have a solid imagination so can easily fill in the gaps on the immersion side of things and equally feel immersed. And this is the best bit, if I desire something that is so close to reality, I actually get up from my computer/console and go outside and immerse myself with real railways and take trips, because the loads of binary 1s and 0s will never be more than just a chunk of software on your gaming device of choice.......
Good job is a bit strong, I'd say OK job overall, but still lacking care and attention in a lot of areas.
