Enough Is Enough!!!

Again, this has nothing to do with your arguments about the restrictions on selling content.

 

matthewgoddard510
Modders are not "having to fix" anything.

Speaking for myself, I am modding things that annoy me, first an foremost for myself. Then I just share it for everyone to use (or not).

Certain demands cannot be met by DTG. Not every route can be a copy of the real world, and most players actually do not care and do not know the real route. For someone not aware of the real WCML, the DLC is ok and it sells. A dev I know once called the "perfectionists" the 1% customers you can't please no matter what, so you're not wasting energy and time you're not getting paid for on trying to please them. paul.pavlinovich explained that using the Pareto Principle.

eldomtom2
Why do I have the feeling you're just here for the sake of arguing. I have explained and justified my opinion, you have not, and you hardly ever do. You're constantly trying to engage in quarrels I think. Please leave it at that.

 

like Semmeringbahn... I havent travelled beyond Wiener Neustadt (yet), but I know of the real route, and I know of lets say CJX9, served by OBB 4744 and 4746, usually double traction... so yeah, it bugged me that they havent included Desiro ML in the DLC AND they put 4024 as CJX 9 ... but I still loved the route

 

I have to say I'm enjoying the TSC version (both DTG Semmering and RSSLO Payerbach - Wien Hbf). Got a lot of stock, the excellent JustTrains/RWA Railjet with real onboard announcements, Desiros and a lot of other ÖBB stock, old and new, there.

 

Seems i missed the "Ludmilla appreciation crowd". Sorry for being late and interrupting the discussion. Just leaving it here at hoping that the Ludmilla still actually is a thing and we will see it in the not so far future. (Imagine that level of clag in TSW)

 

Agreed, I don't understand that 420 hype. With Lady Ludmilla, I can do a lot more things.

 

I firmly believe DTG not only shot themselves in the foot with TSW, but unloaded an entire magazine into one foot, followed by a second magazine into the other, using a Colt M4. They should have known that a lack of open access for third parties would be a bad idea, and they should have changed course with TSW immediately after Flight Sim World was rejected by every FSX player with common sense.

Whether or not Train Simulator will outlast TSW is a different matter. It's worth keeping in mind that MSTS didn't die off completely and there is still a community of people who make stuff for it. It's small, but it exists. In that regard, you could say MSTS has outlived TS, but that's only because it was released years before. However, Rail Simulator was an instant replacement for MSTS. It was a near-universal upgrade, with the downside being slightly more complicated modding tools. Rail Sim and Train Simulator were upgraded over time, but the game was effectively feature complete on day one despite the most important additions to RS/TS (LUA scripting and TSX weather, which were both major game-changers) being released a few years later. TSW at launch did not replace TS. It only featured diesel trains, with no editing tools to speak of. It took a few months for electric trains to be added, but those looking to drive steam locomotives would have to wait for a number of years. And when they finally got them, they were LOVE and still are.

Then the editing tools launched a little over a year ago, but with an extremely flawed setup that makes the whole thing slightly pointless. However, with the launch of the editor that meant there was general feature parity with Rail Simulator. The parts of the game that were in Rail Simulator at launch in 2007 took DTG years to add to TSW, and even then most of it is flawed or just plainly bad. The steam simulation is practically unusable, which means that TS will continue to receive new steam locomotives for the foreseeable future. If you're into steam, it's your only choice.

There have been hypotheses into why the steam simulation is so bad, but the one I believe (which IIRC is similar to the opinion Spikee has on the matter) is that DTG simply didn't think about steam when developing SimuGraph. This meant that when they went back to add steam years later they had to try to bang it into shape, using a system primarily designed for modern locomotives that have hard data to back up the simulation. Steam trains have too many variables, and a system like SimuGraph doesn't seem to be able to do much to account for that.

To my knowledge SimuGraph works on data in > performance out. This is fine for a brand new locomotive which is easy to get information for, such as horsepower, tractive effort, etcetera, but good luck getting that data for a steam train. Train Simulator's physics engine works the other way around. You set up the performance data in the blueprints, and then you can use LUA scripting to cover the gaps. This works wonders for steam trains which can have advanced simulations based on performance information and common sense.

When it comes to the PC market TS and TSW are roughly equal, although TS has a slight lead. It's been this way for a number of years, and those of us who don't really want to jump ship to TSW have good reason to stay on the old game. Personally I see TSW as a side game and TS as the main event. TSW is something to mess around with every once in a while, and TS is the 'proper' train simulator. However, all this could change if DTG have a serious change of attitude and start fixing the glaring flaws with TSW. Will they? Almost certainly not.

 

Oh yes! Challenge now issued for DTG and associates. Though I fear the particle load for that level of clag would put even a NASA computer on its knees, running TSW.

 

I would suspect this is precisely it, although they probably wouldn't word it quite like that! I don't think it's any coincidence that they haven't completely turned their back on TS while they push on TSW. In TS, they have a product which appeals to 'serious' simmers, with a thriving 3rd-party add-ons market place, but the addressable market is relatively small. With TSW, they have a prettier, more accessible, cross-platform train sim which perhaps appeals to the more 'casual' simmer while also pulling in some of the 'serious' simmers too. Who knows if this was their original intention but this is how it seems to have played out, at least for now, and that's actually fine. The market will ultimately decide what succeeds and what fails but, for now, they have people playing both TS and TSW with, I suspect, TSW pulling in most of the money from people who maybe aren't as emotionally invested in the hobby as many of the people on here are. Maybe there isn't as much expectation management as there should be, from all sides, in terms of which product people should be pouring their heart and soul into.

 

Make that 4! My wallet is open for the BR232 ! I hope also it comes as an expert loco as well!

 

Its a worry ive come away from TSW completely and now playing Rally sims.

 

I just bought WRC 24 on sale for just under £12, finally got it installed after Steam decided to reset the download to zero at 90%.

Now just got to work out how to get up and rallying as there seems to be a fair bit of fluff (typical EA sports game) to cut through to an actual event.

 

Had dirt rally going for a long while, took up a lot of disk space so once I had enough got uninstalled. TSW is taking up a fair bit now

 

I think they made a mistake in not releasing editing tools early on (they originally planned to, but dropped the idea for some reason), but not in restricting paid content to being distributed through them.

I very strongly doubt this. Firstly, horsepower, tractive effort, etc. are output, not input. Secondly, it is much easier to get information on the inputs for a steam locomotive than the outputs - measuring the performance of a steam locomotive is well known to be difficult.

 

I really liked the Studio Liverpool WRC games on the PS2. I never really got into Colin McRae/Dirt or the Kylotonn WRC series, although I have not tried Codemasters' WRC games yet.

How on earth is horsepower and tractive effort output? If they are the output, what would the input be?

 

output at the rail to move the train forwards,
input? coal, fuel oil, electricity?

 

I assume you must be talking about how it works in real life, because otherwise like Doom I'm a bit confused as to what you're talking about otherwise. Assuming I am correct then what you're talking about really doesn't translate into what they're talking about.

To lay out a example in real life you walk, which involves in very simple terms your brain telling your muscles and bones to do intricate movements, The speed and acceleration you're walking at being "output" of those interactions. In comparison most games will translate that into a simple code that goes something along that lines of "Press W to proceed at acceleration rate X until you reach speed Y". At which point, you'd probably put in a real life walk speed and acceleration (or a equivalent in whatever weird units your game engine's using) as reference.

So sure, in reality your speed might be a output from all those complex interactions, but most games don't needs such complex system to achieve that, and so may use the real life output as a input to roughly equal it. Or at least, that's how my minimum knowledge on programming understands it.

 

Well in real life horsepower and tractive effort are definitely measures of output. The input is in a direct sense water and coal, but in this sense where we're discussing simulation it also covers the design of the locomotive.

 

Horsepower is a measure of output or capacity (Watts), whereas tractive effort is a measure of force (Newton). Different meanings - but related. Physical Output is defined by Work divided by Time. Work itself is Force times Distance (Newtonmetres or Nm). So more work in less time is higher output. Every company loves such employees.

That means, physical Output is depending on time - without it, it is just physical Work.

Both can be set in relation via velocity. (P = F * v) or: Horsepower is Tractive Effort times Speed. Which means the higher the speed, the lower the TE.

Or Tractive Effort can be defined by Horsepower divided by Speed.

Or Speed = HP / TE

 

just do quick play and create your own rally, you can play only one stage if you like. Also championship can quickly set up a rally season and you can specify options like length of rounds and stages etc. it’s pretty fast when you start to get set up. Career is the longest.

 

Been fed up of TSW, I just play SCR Roblox now and have fun on that. Least they have Platform announcements and train announcements and also very well working PIS! I know it is a total different game but I assume some of the coding is similar? Happy to be taught otherwise.

 

I bought Forza Horizon 4 when recently on sale. Amazing fun.
As is Trackmania

 

Astro Bot has been my favourite recent buy. Damn good game.

I've also been buying up most of the LittleBigPlanet DLC ahead of the game and all its DLC being delisted in 42 minutes.

 

100% agree. Bought it for my daughter but I get to have a go every now and then. Once I start, I can't put it down !!

 

The only problem is the train sounds on SCR but it's just a minor problem (especially since it's a Roblox game we don't ask for too much)
I was wondering what SCR would be like on TSW

 

I somewhat enjoyed Sackboy A Big Adventure but going back to it now that I've almost reached 100% in Astro Bot, SABA feels so slow and clunky. They really should have made LittleBigPlanet 4 instead - Sumo were onto something with LBP3 even if they didn't manage it completely.

I don't think Astro Bot is a perfect game, but it is close. My main wish is for the challenge levels to have a checkpoint in the middle. They are definitely possible with practise, but having to go back to the start each time makes them overstay their welcome pretty quickly. I'm stuck on the To The Beat challenge, which I find even harder than the final Grand Master Challenge (although that one is itself very difficult). Other than that I've done everything. I think it's the first game I've ever tried to get 100% completion on, but I remember trying to fully complete all the main levels in LittleBigPlanet 3.

It's worth separating SCR (the network and branding) from the concept of the game, which I talked about in a thread a few years ago discussing the different possibilities for multiplayer in Train Sim World. In essence, implementing a SCR-like experience in TSW would require changes to the way timetable mode works. There is no set timetable in SCR. Instead, a player can spawn in at any time into any service pattern with the timings generated automatically. While I haven't used it myself, this seems similar to the timetable quick drive RWEnhancer 2 adds to Train Simulator.

If DTG wanted to add SCR-like multiplayer to TSW, they'd need to come up with a way for the game to automatically generate timings for each type of train that can be used on a service pattern. SCR generally allows for every train from an operator to be used on any of its routes, and with TSW's more realistic physics this can cause issues if the train is too slow for the timetable. SCR also uses depots and sidings to spawn trains in, so any route would need depots in multiple places for it to work. This limits the amount of real routes that could be used. The Brighton Mainline could work, but something like Marseille to Avignon would be out of the question.

 

Afterwards I didn't necessarily talk about adding multiplayer, I'm just talking about adding the SCR Map on TSW after It's that depots can be a problem, after that remains to be seen with the timetable but in my memories there are still a lot of depots in SCR.

 

Personally, Im getting excited for SCS to release the 1.53 open beta for American Truck Simulator, it finally means California is out of its 2016 state and updated to modern standards. That plus with Missouri on the horizon, it looks like SCS will keep it as well as updates to ETS2 on the high as expected.

 

Still enjoying FH4. It’s a bit light and fluffy but sometimes that’s what you need to unwind.

ETS2 should be getting Greece soon and Nordic Horizons hopefully early next year. Latter the main event for me!

 

In photo mode when driving steam locos, if you move the camera a small distance from the train to frame a photo, the exhaust steam disappears from the chimney. This makes it look as though the train is drifting with a clear fire, or just posed in light steam.

Another good effect would be to have the shadow of the exhaust steam as your drive along. And some clag whilst climbing or opening the regular wide. The DTG locos have found a great supplier of smokeless coal.

 

You can set up your own race btw. Place waypoints on the map, and invite friends to race. There's fabulous dirt track courses on the map.

 

I wondered if that was possible. Thoughts of setting up a nice 10 mile or so rally course.

 

Its even worse when considering that the Smoke looked way better in the first version. Think it was after TSW4 release when the smoke turned just white.

Photo Mote also still resets the weather.

 

ow that 134 loco is hard on my eyes and guessing it would be hard on my ears, but it is page 134 after all.

 

They were lovely locos with a really scratchy GM exhaust stack talk. Had a pair on the Rosslare Harbour to Dublin service way back in early 1985.

 

looks onto a mp15 or sw 1500 1001 GM US switcher

 

Did they shunt, or do other services too?

 

As I said, they worked passenger services back to back on the Dublin to Rosslare route also Dublin to Sligo up until I believe the 90’s when the Class 071’s were displaced off the primary routes by the new Class 201 diesels. Sadly both those lines are now worked by DMU’s. The class could also pop up working freight and ballast trains around the (C)IE network.

It’s a shame DTG probably don’t see a classic Irish route as being commercially viable as something like Dublin to Rosslare would combine fine scenery ( Vale of Avoca, the coast from Wicklow into Dublin) with the chance to drive one of these classic locos. Even Trainz has a Class 121 to play around with.

 

Been very little for Irish content over the years, Making tracks did an Enterprise route if I recall.

 

That was just about the only one and for MSTS too, nothing for TSC. Think there have been a couple of freeware routes for the latter including one depicting the magnificent route down to Valentia Harbour. In terms of LAMPOIL the problem is most of the scenic Irish routes are in the same boat as rural Scotland and Wales, just not enough train services to make an interesting timetable.

One of my favourite runs was the line from Rosslare to Limerick Junction, now part closed between Rosslare Strand and Waterford. But for most of the year there was just one train a day in each direction, connecting in and out of the afternoon ferry from and toFishguard. In the summer there was an additional train each way meaning between Waterford and Limerick Junction a grand total of two trains a day each way plus a smidgeon of freight. These trains tended to be worked by 001 class locos, or the little GM’s 141 or 181’s.

 

I remember that game, the brakes were shocking but the route itself was fantastic.

 

Shame if we don't get routes as they are not busy enough. Discounts many iconic lines.

 

It does. I mean to me, trundling along at 50 MPH on jointed track between Waterford and Tipperary in an old steam heat Park Royal wooden body coach, was the epitome of iconic.

 

Unfortunately for most iconic would be Peterborough to King's Cross in 2024....or that's what the marketeers want us to believe.

 

With a one handle EMU....and a 66

 

would this be enough handles for you ?

 

Definitely be a unique experience lol

 

2K11 service Euston to Milton Keynes - impassible red light 1.9 miles from the destination. Great to know some things haven't changed !!

 

There was a question in this year's survey about implementation of random events faulty red lights. I didn't check a checkbox next to that one, as we already have it in the game...