Should Dtg Do More Current Trains? (e.g Trains Soon To Be Withdrawn?)

Recently, in the UK, (as well as the wider world, I’m sure) trains have been disappearing, or soon will, examples that come to mind include (BR Classes 365, 455, 321, 508, Tyne and Wear Metrocars, TGV Sud-Est, & E4 Series Shinkansen.) Some, such as the 456’s and 508’s have already gone extinct, with no opportunity to map out and record data to be recreated in TSW. And yes, I know Armstrong Powerhouse and others like them may already have sounds, but quality may be poor, or even outdated; and it all depends on the cooperation from all parties. I’m not saying that they should stop doing modern routes and rolling stock, but, we only get one chance at some things like this.

 

Luckily all of the trains that you see in that yard and many others of the recently withdrawn Mk3 derived EMUs had professional sound recordings done by Armstrong Powerhouse so DTG will have access to the AP library if needed. Sadly AP weren't about when 1st Gen BR multiple units disappeared so they can only record the rare number of preserved EMUs.

 

S-Bahn Berlin's 485 is unfortunately already gone, but I do think it would've been great for TSW, if just we even had a Berlin route at all...

 

In Germany and for diesel lines, a lot of DMUs already are or are about to get replaced by battery-powered electric units in 2024 or next year in 2025. I mean its good for the climate, but its kind of sad for the people who loved these kinds of locos.

And while there maybe still will be opportunities to get some records and data from a few locos, DTG should at least be aware of the issue.

I voted for yes.

 

LNER are going to get rid of the InterCity 225s when their new trains are properly in service, which is only a couple of years away.

Their future doesn't look good outside of LNER either.

 

I think they're gonna do what they think people will buy.
I'm not convinced much of that mentioned was all that popular or "historic" to warrant lots of sales.
Is anyone going to rush out to buy a route to get the Class 465, which only had 40 examples?
On the other hand, 3 of them are being preserved in real life as of 2022.
Preservation
"DMSO(A) 65917 and TSO 72287 from unit 365524 along with DMSO(B) 65974 from unit 365540 are to be put on static display at the East Kent Railway, where they will be used as a restaurant, an exhibition area, and a major events venue."

So that's a lot better preservation anyway.

I don't know what they provide that's unique and dozens of other models aren't already very similar to.
Now if for some reason you have a specific route that you want to see that would feature them... then you can suggest that and they'd be likely included with that route.

The trains themselves however aren't very good as a separate focus.

 

I feel like it would unlikely we’d get any soon to be scrapped trains in TSW, a lot people the trains people would be suggesting wouldn’t align with the audience DTG are catering to. We know what DTG’s stance is on steam and routes set in the past, so the trains wouldn’t be much different I fear.

 

Yes please
91,185,175 I'd like to see.
Though happy with plenty others.

 

the TGV SE is now of a very long time not anymore more in service since 2019 (december)

 

They should be out there gathering as much information as they can, even if just recorded for reference purposes.

 

If its possible, without affecting the development time of other add-ons, then sure.
However, if it's something that slows down development then I'm not particularly sure.

Objectively, its a good idea solely for archival purposes and preparations I'm the future in case they need it.

 

No, more of the old stuff. 30ies of last century, early steam and stuff like that.

 

That one is a gut punch… . Love those trains.

 

Definitely agree with that. But they won’t bother.

 

Yes. I'd particularly like to see the 455 done. We haven't got very long left before they go as they are pretty much on borrowed time (before the 701s are fully rolled out), but they have time.

It would be good to get it done as although AP recordings are Great they sometimes use the wrong sounds for wrong trains (I.e. Electrostar running sounds on an IET).

I'd also like to see the 465 get some love, include the /0, /1 and the 466. Different motors for the former and different consist for the latter, but they do have a good amount of time.

 

Virtual preservation sounds good. Especially the old emu's you aren't going to see ever again.

 

I’d like to see trains like the 319/769, 321 and 455 and in game at some point, they’re old trains but I feel like they’d still appeal to a lot of people, at the moment the only similar trains we have are the 313 & 314.

 

Ah, but the new stuff will eventually be old.

 

Had a nice run in the 319 from Bedford to Brighton on tsc last night. Then a run from Waterloo to Portsmouth in the 455. Some of these definitely need to come to tsw.

 

no trains being shipped to Africa or so?
it has happened before

 

If they're in TSC then isn't that pretty much good for "preserving" them for later TSW? DTG already has access to what is required to build them then.
So that kind of makes the whole point moot.

 

While new traction seems to be DTG main target, I assume it sells better than retro stuff. I think the addition of some 1st and 2nd Gen EMUs would provide an excellent challenge and a new driving experience for many TSW players. I think there will be more modern releases than retro ones in TSW.

Maybe new routes but with "Retro" editions with older stock would be the best way to go, it may also provide a secondary revenue spike for routes as the later addition of a timetable with older trains may influence some of us older players to buy a route that didn't previously appeal.

I'm quite happy to drive a Class 305 up to Glossop or a Class 47, 87, 310, 317 or 321 down WCML south, even if the route is based in the modern day.

 

I'd be fine with that, but there are a very vocal number of players who are allergic to even hearing that idea and think it akin to blasphemy to run trains on the "wrong" era route. They simply say "that's what free roam is for" and dig in their heels.

While some places yes it would be odd to see different era rolling stock on it (modern stuff on Peak Forest for example with it's stations and cars built in the 1950s), it's less out of place on routes that haven't changed much through the years. Especially for those who aren't familiar with the areas and wouldn't honestly be able to tell the difference anyway.

Without knowing the route was set in the 1980s, I couldn't tell you offhand what makes Blackpool different from what the route would look like in 2024. Likewise, a 1st gen or 3rd gen EMU is still an EMU to me and would be fine. It's not like jumping from a steam engine or a Class 08 to a Class 66.

 

There is a lot that is different from present day Blackpool compared to 80s Blackpool, there is also no Blackpool Pleasure Beach station!

 

No patience to wait for that. And, new tsuff is far more boring than the old stuff.

 

The line is now electrified and all the mechanical signalling has gone. I don't know if any of the signal boxes have survived but I suspect not all of them.

So quite a lot has changed, it probably doesn't matter if you don't know the area or don't care, for me it would be too much.

Seeing those ridiculous layers on WCL was a (large) step to far for me as was the Great Western Diesel legends pack.

 

Fair enough. Although it's scary to think that by the time I'm an old girl, "new" trains such as the Azuma would be a thing of the past.

 

If we ever get a 321 I'm gonna learn how to use the TSW editor to create a 1990s WCML TT with the 87 and Mk3As, Mk1 BG and any Mk2s that are good, hopefully an 86 if that's what JT release, the 321 and of course the 313 for the Watford DC. I really liked it during the Intercity days and just before/just as Virgin took over. Although saying that I wasn't born so I'm only really speaking through videos and scenarios.

 

You're just making my point about the difference between serious and casual gamers having different opinions and desires.
You are entirely welcome to have your opinion.
Others can disagree.

The point remains however that there is huge push back against "wrong era" trains so that limits options.

It is what it is.

 

We need a 91 in this game

 

Agreed, as one of my favourite Electric Locos, the Electra is definitely something they could do, even as Loco Add-on for ECML. And is a perfect example of my point, they are for sure on borrowed time until the new CAF Tri-mode units arrive, which I would imagine directly replace the remaining Intercity 225’s.

 

Totally agree with the Class 91. It's one of those that's not in my top ten but in terms of it's importance to the ECML and it's historical significance as the successor to the APT project*, it's got to come to TSW.

*Yes, I know the APT wasn't initially intended for the ECML but many successful aspects of the APT design were used for the Class 91s and Mark 4 coaches.

 

The Class 91 might come to the Preston to Shap route.

 

Oh yes, is that an Open Access proposal? Also useful AI around Cardiff.

 

Considering it never ran on the WCML, I highly doubt it.

 

Actually, it did, in 1992 between London and Manchester and then in 1996 between Manchester and Liverpool.

Not for regular service though.

 

Ahh so era correct!

 

Really? I never knew that, I know the Badger (89) was tested on both coasts.

 

To be clear, there are three preserved coaches, not units. No whole 365s were preserved, and the three vehicles do not include a PTOSL meaning the train can never run again.

 

unless just train has anything to go by. You know how much they like old br routes.

And speaking of these near retired trains.
Loco - Mk3 And Pep Emus Suggestions | Dovetail Games Forums
I have made a suggestions thread for... pretty much all the older MK3 and PEP EMUs because I do wish to have proper old EMU and motor sounds. Its just much more interesting compared to what modern stock we have now.

Absolutely, and I cannot fathom why does LNER/DTG refuses to bring the intercity225 into TSW. The amount of times they said they have bring a route/trains out of poplar demand (i.e WCML and ECML as routes) is countless yet ignores the community's request for wanting the intercity225.

If we ever get a intercity225 in i'd say I would prefer this to be brought in with a York to Newcastle route taken place during the sectorisation era. Heck bring along the Valenta engine HST. And since its in the BR era. Just Trains i am looking at you please-

 

I think the southern leg of the ECML will be a release at some point. They could do one based around the time the IETs were being introduced so 313s on locals, 700s on Thameslink, 387s on GN outer services, HSTs and IETs. Adding the 91 and the 365 as new traction.

If it could tie in with the ECML in game, then through services could be possible with a quick download transition screen to the equivalent Timetabled service on the northern stretch.
Meanwhile, traction-wise there's something for everyone. Classic sounds and old fashioned controls on the 313s and HSTs from the 70s, 91s and 365s that cover 80s/90s traction and loads of modern "one handle" traction for those who like modern stuff. It could potentially be a banger of a DLC.

 

Indeed, another reason old EMUs should be recorded. It’s the same story with the 442.

This is what you would expect, as this could make some money through potential loco add-ons and a bundle, but this is DTG.

 

"uh lets cut the route to just kings cross to stevenage" bet they will say that if we ever get this kind of thing. And then just gives us the IET and 387 (and possibly 700??) and then just calls it a day. Might as well go play the proper one on train sim classic.

 

They won't end it at Stevenage.

 

Both the 365 and 442 have had sounds recorded by AP. Many of AP's recordings haven't been used though; they recorded a 395 years ago and never released it.

 

with how they did the euston to milton keynes. I am betting on it because apparently making anything 100 miles is too hard.

 

Euston to Milton Keynes has an intermediate stop for the express services. Kings Cross to Stevenage doesn't.

Also, why wouldn't they go to Peterborough? They wouldn't want to miss out on the opportunity to connect it with the ECML as it would increase sales for both routes with them marketing the route hopping feature.

DTG are many things, but stupid they are not.

 

you have not seen Paddington to Reading then lol.
And like the only middle stop on the WCML is Watford Junction for the 390. It will probably because of the "too many builds and too many lag" or whatever excuse they gave WCML not up to Rugby/Birmingham and now allowing the 390 to stretch its legs. Like of course it would be prefer/desirable to go all the way up to Peterborough yes. But with DTG's bad practice always liking to cut route short I doubt we will get the full line.

 

GWE is different. Can't compare it.

And I can guarantee it'd go to Peterborough. No services at all even end at Stevenage, every route (those that I own), possibly with an exception or two) has at least one service that terminates at a station along it.

 

My reading of AP's work in the field recording traction is to build a library that can be sold not just for their enhancement packs but if any train sim (because TSW won't be the last) needs recordings of legacy/extinct traction.

In a recent newsletter they said they'd been up to Merseyside to record the compressors on the Class 508s because they shared that somewhat noisy feature with the Class 312 (which got me very excited). There are no plans to release either on TSC or TSW but imagine if DTG or another train sim builder wanted to do the GEML but due to licenses have to set it in Network South East era then AP's library can bring the DLC to life.