6th November 2024 - FNA Wagon Pack Released! APFNA: 6M95 16:35 Dungeness - Crewe Coal Sidings Smooth ride on an AP Class 68 - Makes TSW seem irrelevant! https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/fna_wagon_pack That scenario must have been one of the best runs I have enjoyed in TSC. All AP addons, AP Class 68, running parallel to one train and 2 trains passing me in other direction. Exciting Scenario!
Kilt, I'll report back tomorrow. This caught me in the middle of my dutch asset collecting and milk bottle removing work. If I take a break too long, I'll forget what sites I've already been checking. Seems I'm done now, all my twelve newly added routes are complete and I've found everything. I'll play this FNA scenario tomorrow, just had a short look after installing the pack and the 68 update.
I like your way of "databasing" scenarios. Interesting to see how each one of us treats their hobby. Belgian scenario creators BeLuxTrains (BLXT), who are making freeware scenario packs for dutch and belgian routes, have their own database where you can check each scenarios' requirements and repaints with direct links provided.
I see that AP is now leveraging TS Rolling Stock within their Scenarios. Wonder what that means for the future?
Nice to support other devs imho and to bring some attention to them. If your stock is featured in AP scenarios, that's sort of a "seal of approval". If you don't want that, LocoSwap is your friend (or F2+Cancel) I'm on my way now.
So did I. Went on a pre-xmas shopping spree (raided ChrisTrains' shop completely and discovered there's even free stock hidden in there). Cutting down on smoking leaves you with a lot of cash Not having stopped completely, but reduced it to 50%. That's 4,50 Euros per day saved I can use for rolling stock. (or 30 Euros per week for TS)
NOW there's some action here Loving the parallel run with 465 009. Scenario requires you to stay vigilant! Almost there. Compared to ugly TSW, the place looks real, trees look better, track rendering is better, distant scenery appears sooner... Glad I dumped TSW.
That's the TSRollingStock IZA wagons on the supplied AP Class 37 Trainload MML scenario. Nicely weathered and sprayed. Well done. Let's get moving - full clag please! Train Simulator is like a good wine. It's getting better and better with age.
I agree. Hard to pick up and get a good collection going. Once you have it then there are some really great hidden gems! I loved the latest AP scenario. You have some great shots. Looking forward to the new AP 43s. If their scenarios are as good as that one then!
Good analogy, here's another one, TSW5 is like the new trendy alcohol free beers, look good but lack any substance.
749006 Yes the scenario starts at Newark Northgate where ECML branches off onto the MML section Nottingham - Lincoln. (You need the JT version, won't work with the Steam route.) ajpardy To make it clear, the AP FNA Pack comes with a scenario for Chatham Mainline (Dover / Ramsgate). This pack requires the IZA wagon pack (highly recommended) from TSRollingStock, which in turn comes with two scenarios (JT MML and DTG WCMLS) as kilt46 has documented.
I've a number of the wagons available from TSRS (https://ko-fi.com/tsrollingstock/shop) and can also recommend them highly.
Sorry to necrobump but I bought the FNAs a few days ago and played the (quite good) scenario, but unlike the RHTTs I'm less of a fan of the work AP has done. Obviously both are better than the originals but the textures on the new FNAs are seemingly the originals with some colour correction done. It's probably the worst looking AP wagon pack in a number of years. The RHTTs look lovely though, which is odd considering they're both former JT wagons. JustTrains do have a number of other wagons I'd love to see remastered by AP, particularly the car carriers, which we don't have any decent UK equivalents of in TS right now. The Seacows and autoballasters would be good too.
Not sure I'm a fan of leveraging external stock purchases in future AP scenario work. Just makes it harder and harder to enjoy the scenarios as-is. That said, it's a good boon for the developer, as AP using your stock means you are doing something right. Maybe it would work for Powerhouse, but scenarios coming with the stock shouldn't do this IMO. I have a lot of the ChrisTrains stuff, but gave up with Dutch route assets at the time and have yet to use them. I need to try that once I have a new rig set up. May want to discuss where to find some assets in the meantime. Pop me a message on Discord sometime.
..or AP are getting on good terms with you so you'd work for/with them...remember AP (Richard Armstrong) brings in others to do what he can't.
I do know this. I'm not faulting him, and own a lot of the stuff, but I do think there are things he could do to make new stock more accessible to newer users and this comes from including basic versions of scenarios that don't use much external stock so that newer users don't feel forced to learn third-party tools. Things like that. But given where TSC is in age and that the project is not seeing new DTG content as far as we know lately, I don't see that changing as most users will be users who have all the content by now anyway.
Since you don't believe me... The same angular lining is present. The (incorrect) font is the same. Look at that 'SM' sticker. On the JT one you can tell that there is meant to be text underneath the red box, even if it is ineligible. On the AP one not only is the M deformed, the bottom text is a weird series of hieroglyphs - that's a clear sign that the textures were mostly just upscaled using AI, and with little attention paid to how it actually looks. You can see the same problem on the Procor ENG plate on the right of the screenshot. Edit: I found one instance of AI upscaling on the RHTT pack, but most of it it new or at least AI upscaling that's unnoticeable.
Oh, I do believe you, it's just that "but the textures on the new FNAs are seemingly the originals with some colour correction done. It's probably the worst looking AP wagon pack in a number of years." means nothing to folk who haven't seen the wagons. Without an image it's just somebody expressing an opinion without showing justification. Having said that I'm happy to live with a tiny label which you can't see until you really zoom in (something I find hard to do when actually playing the game) being a bit "fuzzy", as I can enjoy the numbering on the flasks. Why have you taken a post that was just an image as a refutation of your post anyway? No claim that you were wrong was made or inferred.
Other than the weathering and the numbering, this is a pretty low-effort pack. Using AI upscaling is very hard to justify for a payware product.
So using a single wagon type from another provider that only needs installing (no extra 3rd party tools involved in double clicking a .exe file) fits the bill then?
"External" refers to anything not included in the pack. Given the scenarios in packs are constantly updated to promote new content, it's safe to say that virtually every product from AP does not fit the bill. Unless you want to use LocoSwap et al, you have to buy everything or risk scenario errors. I own most of it and have even played some scenarios that are no longer available. The HHA set for instance. They were pulled right out of the install.
Every single AP wagon pack costs the same as the FNAs except for the TTA V1, RHTTs, FSAs and MFAs. So I'd expect the same attitude to quality that AP had when they were developing the rest of the £5.99 packs.
You'd probably have more of an argument if you worked on this... "Please note that this model is the same base model as included with the the Just Trains Class 20 Collection but with enhanced visuals, audio and physics."
There would be allowable room for an engine to be used. But the point is more than 15 different DLC needed for a pack is just silly. Let's look at individual scenarios. Scenarios sold with the pack, in my view, should include lighter versions. And these versions are ones I already have, without updates to stock that may have occurred since I installed these in 2022 or whenever. Oh, and some of the FastLine stuff might not be easy to get a hold of now; I've been eyeing the 102t tanks for a while (I should have the Sea Urchins on Steam, not sure why they are missing for me unless it's an extra stock pack skin).. So I can play almost every scenario I have now except those needing old sound packs, which would need swaps. If I update, I can no longer play them. Newer users would be better off giving up.
It works fine when it's the RHTT pack which clearly had effort put into it, but it's really pushing it to use it as an excuse. There's no way it took more than ten minutes for whatever AI upscale they were using to do the whole lot, and it would have taken even less time for them to have taken a look at the wagon in TS and notice that not only did the AI upscaling not work in places but there are still inaccuracies with the wagon. Audio and physics update, yes. It's a very loose interpretation of 'enhanced visuals'. If they'd pointed out that AI upscaling had been used and priced it accordingly, it would have been fine. There is no way that the FNA pack as it is now should be priced the same as the TTA Volume 2, MGRs or JSAs. If they were adamant on £5.99, they could have had the decency to actually fix some of the texture issues from the original model, and the ones they caused by using AI.
I agree, but as we're discussing/arguing about the FNA lets just stick with the 11 that the included scenario calls for eh? "Please note that these items are only required if you would like to use the scenario included in this pack. AP Class 66 Enhancement Pack - More Information AP Class 68 Enhancement Pack - More Information AP Class 375/377 Enhancement Pack - More Information AP Class 455 Enhancement Pack Vol. 2 - More Information AP Class 465/466 Enhancement Pack Vol. 2 - More Information AP Class 700/707/717 Enhancement Pack - More Information AP Signal Enhancement Pack - More Information DTG Chatham Main Line: London Victoria to Dover & Ramsgate - More Information DTG EWS Class 66 V2.0 - More Information DTG North London Line - More Information OR DTG North London & Goblin Lines - More Information TSRollingStock IZA Hfirrs Wagon Pack 01 - More Information" If we extend your argument, every scenario writer who uses something you don't have is being "silly" There are many things that AP do/have done/will do/are suspected of that are worth complaining about, but knocking out wagons for £5.99, whether they've fixed any pre-existing issues or not, is not one of them--particularly when these wagons would cost £23 from JT (https://www.justtrains.net/product/class-20-advanced-collection)
I disagree. Users who use stock on their own are perfectly fine to do so. Yes, I think some of the requirement lists on some scenarios is insane, but this is a different animal. Very often, the scenario is a free scenario. If you don't own the stock, you either get the stock to play the scenario, change the stock to what you have, or ignore the scenario. After all, there are who knows how many trips from Liverpool to Manchester or vice versa available with different player trains, timetables, and static stock arrangements; who cares if you miss this one? When selling stock, however, to me it makes more sense to try to get the new purchaser able to play with that stock as easily as possible. Not one single loco by DTG on Steam, and very few third-party ones, provide scenarios that require you to buy other stock. JT's routes on Steam provide only default scenarios (also included in the site versions of the routes with the enhanced ones) and they do require the Euro Loco and Asset Pack most of the time since the routes aren't sold with trains, so this was an allowance that had to be made to have scenarios and it's a minimal intrusion since most players who buy one of a couple dozen routes will already have it anyway. The idea is to make it easy for the user to get at the stock and do something fun with it. Seeing stock lists like the Class 37 (one of the longest I know of) and even the current FNA only serves to discourage users who might not be adept at third-party tools and now have to go to extra work to be able to try scenarios with swapped stock, or create their own scenarios just to use the stock. I'm for making it easier for the average newcomer. Side note: they forgot the DTG ScotRail Class 68 in the requirements, technically. Also the 700 since it is separate DLC from the Dover/Ramsgate route. Also, note that I have not knocked the £5.99 price point. It's the same price point as others. Whether it's worth that price is down to the individual user.
Other than "[60] 01. 6A12 - Robeston Sidings to Theale Murco Sidings" from the class 60 pack which calls for stock from the Class67pack03 DLC...there are probably more, but I can't be arsed looking.
Actually, the description page does not say anything and I don't actually own that DLC. That's in there? Interesting.
So..if you'll excuse the bluntness, "Not one single loco by DTG on Steam" is bollocks, and has no merit or standing, being just a pre-judged assumption.
Based on the DLC I have seen - and I have over 450 - perhaps you will excuse my statement based on my analysis. I cannot confirm that the 67 is called by the Class 60, so I have to accept on good faith that it does. Unless I am forgetting something, there is no such thing with any of the DLC I have seen. Third party developers and scenario packs, meanwhile, will call upon certain DLC, but that is not DTG.
I think the 'Class67Pack03' is the 67 that comes with the South Wales Coastal route so there is no extra DLC (except the route) for the class 60.
That they'll use whatever manufacturer's stock that is most prototypical for the line and era the scenarios are set in, probably
While I agree that AP's scenario requirements are rather complex and pricey if you're new to the franchise, I still think this is a better solution to using old Kuju stock like some other third party devs do as part of their "base" scenarios included with whichever piece of content they do.
Agreed, and as LocoSwap is a standard equipment, you can change it to whatever you like anyway. Like model railroaders, I am a collector and glad AP pointed me to this excellent stock developer.
