Reminds me of the old days in TS Classic; using FGW 166s in place of FTPE 185s, Gatwick Express Class 444s, using the middle cars out of the Regional Railways 101 instead of Mk1 coaches, driving a GNER HST down the ECML (just ignore there's no wires cos the route's set in the 70s).
Yeah, but it wouldn't fit in 1986-era Preston-Carlisle, and given that JT have said the new loco is specifically for this route it can't really be a 50...
True but to be frank I personally be much more interested in being able to drive one in a period setting doing what they were intended to do. The railtours we have in the sim are hardly interesting and often not even representative of a railtour.
Would love a 50 on a period route. Gloucester to Birmingham or Exeter to Plymouth would be my choices.
I wouldn't hold my breath on TSW releases, JT Blackpool route was great but its one route a year at the current rate.
I do agree. It always worries me a bit when railtours are presented as a solution to the fact that nearly all new routes are modern, but a lot of people prefer older stock. For me, it’s not just about the train - it’s the whole railway scene of the era in question which is important. Railtours in real life are fine for a little bit of nostalgia, but they inevitably involve a lot of compromises and going on one is really nothing like actually travelling in that era. Putting a railtour on a sim is re-creating a re-creation of the past (a bit like having a preserved line on a sim), and it’s not very satisfying. You really need the whole route to be set in the right era to create anything like an authentic experience.
As someone with no attachment to the time period of this route, the only thing that would really get me excited would be the APT. I'd also be ecstatic to see a preserved Duchess or Royal Scot but I doubt JT are interested in doing steam.
Two be fair there's two routes they could flesh out as they are even using existing rolling stock (PFR and SOS) that have tumbleweeds blowing through otherwise beautiful maps. And of course there's nothing in the 60s or 70s at all (except Clinchfield but that's not UK or German and has no passenger content, which over 80% of the playerbase prioritizes) I can see the "steam power" people getting angry about the "steam routes" (although they also work for early diesels just as well) but not having ANYTHING from 1958 to 1983 is a pretty big gap in modern railroading. That's a 25 year empty patch. I guess if the younger console users only want modern passenger routes, then so be it. It's logical. I get that people tend to focus on what they "grew up with" so anyone who "grew up" in the 1960s would be in their 70s.... not the ideal video gaming customer base it's true. I think I saw a stat that something like 75% of video gamers are under 45, and only maybe 5% are over 65. That's even MORE youth-skewed with consoles, which is the target market for TSW. The 18-44 market is where they target things. That means those folks were mostly born in the 1980-2000 timeframe. Anything older than mid 1980s has no nostalgic attachment. For many anything before 2000 is too old. So I get whey so many of the routes are "new." Also it's plainly a lot easier to DO. The routes from today are sitting right there. You don't have to go look back through archives decades old for old pictures and do the research. You just go out, take pictures and it's RIGHT THERE. They're frankly the easiest to make and the biggest sellers. It makes me sad as a historian and someone outside the ideal age range, but I get why things are as they are. Also explains why TSC on the PC is where most of the older routes and locos are.
I hope JT do continue with modelling this era or +/- ten years or so. I get the feeling this route might be a bigger seller than the Blackpool route, which hopefully might show DTG that ruling out BR period routes totally, could be folly.
Fired up a quick drive I have written on WCML North last night, pair of AP 37s on 30 loaded AP HAAs. Route has All AP enhancements fitted, run it through a 4K TV with a Sound Bar. Turned up the volume (maybe a bit much mind) and mind blown. Absolute noise and visual feast. TSW is miles off this right now and seems to only want cater to a market who wants more PIS and more lifts. One BR route a year is appreciated but it quite frankly doesn't match what's already on my PC.
Unfortunately one of the JT staff on here did say they wouldn't do anything with steam as "Steam is Borked in TSW". You know DTG made a mess of it when even they can't sort it out
If DLoGW is set in 1971, then the locos should be pre-TOPS, which they aren’t. However, hopefully a ‘remaster’ (set around 1977) could improve things a lot, as we could have Blue/Grey Mk1s in addition to the Mk2s, and use the wider variety of brake/parcels vans from PBO, which would add a bit of variety to formations. Maybe even a Blue/Grey HST could appear. Once the 104 comes out, could this also be implemented, even if incorrect, although some did work the North London Line when new, to add more variety.
Regarding time periods, I've always hoped to see more routes set in the late 90s/ early 2000s, as it's feasible to get both modern and classic traction in a realistic setting then. I'd have loved it if this route was set around 2004. It could have featured both the 87 hauled trains and Pendolinos then, not to mention the possibility of Voyagers, Class 90s, Valenta HSTs... Obviously licensing defunct operators is very difficult, but EMT made it into the game and no one seems that upset at unbranded FGW trains in the upcoming GWE remaster.
I must be the only one here to think that Blackpool Ormskirk isn't that great. Preston Station is awful, especially the introduction area at the taxi rank. That has to be THE worst graphics anywhere in the franchise. As for the time period of the mid 1980's, it is rather limiting. For varieties sake the mid 90's would have been a better sell, same station clutter, assets etc but with more classes available to make. JT wanted to tie in with the BPO 1986 aesthetic so that's a shame. Ill still be HUDless and thrashing my 87 from day 1 of course
I'm glad it was set when it was and in terms of variety we got more with that route than we've had with almost anything else. It's great to have more places to run the 31, 101, 45, 40 and 20. I personally love sitting in Preston station and just watching what shows up. Like IMO they used the layers brilliantly and chose a really interesting period. If they'd done it later surely they would've been more limited to stock they could've used from existing collections and you wouldnt have had the same variety as now in the timetable? As we'd probably only get one new loco/unit? Although I'm not sure how much it all changed over those 10 years or so.
The late 90s era and into the 2000s won't happen unless TOCs are either fictional or unbranded. As Virgin Trains were the primary operator on the WCML at the time, they don't like licencing their brand name so it would make it very difficult. In TSC, the Virgin branded items had to be removed from sale once they had lost the route.
Or British Rail; the early freight companies shouldn't be too difficult either as Load Haul, Transrail and Mainline have a direct descendant - DB Cargo UK, who have licenced previous brands, DB Schenker and EWS.
As I said, I don't think unbranded content is a terrible idea if it means getting routes/ trains we otherwise wouldn't get. I don't think people are that upset about unbranded FGW trains or even the unbranded 350.
It certainly doesn't worry me. I would too love to see some early privatisation routes, they are already part of railway history. There was still a lot of BR modernisation plan rolling stock still on the rails in the late 90's and early 2000's you could get plenty of variety. Personally I think the sim should aim to represent all eras, the would for me make the sim feel complete.
Well if the stock was unbranded where necessary it would work, if there wasn't a backlash against using unbranded stock.
I sure as hell hope so. We have FAR too many "new" routes. You can play any of those. Leave us a FEW routes for old timers to enjoy =-) I like stock better from the 80s and no, the station isn't bad at all. It's one of the best routes....
Now I can't say what it is from the model, but Suspicious minds and It's a kind of magic were in the top ten in '86, I believe. Surely that's where this hint is taking us. Edit: After reading it again, Hit that perfect beat were also top ten in '86. Also context for me rambling about music is this comment in the roadmap: “No need to pant with excitement! In the Top Ten, this DLC will Hit That Perfect Beat especially for those with Suspicious Minds as It’s A Kind Of Magic.” I am sure someone who knows the 86s much better will be able to confirm/deny the suspicions:
The 86 will drive similar to the 87, but with less power? I'm not interested in electric locos, but the 86 seems to be more desirable than the 87 going by these forums. Or is it that the having both is good?
It’s a good loco to add variety, and rest assured will be developed to a good standard. Class 86 subclasses are an absolute headache, so idk which one will be in TSW. copied this off discord because I’m a lazy person Class 86/0: As built. Class 86/1: Class 87 test bed locos. Class 86/2: SAAB Wheel and Flexicoil Suspension fitted. Class 86/3: SAAB Wheel Fitted Only. Class 86/4: Converted class 86/0 & 86/3. Class 86/5a: Freight allocated class 86/2s (didn't last long, but some/all repainted into TfL livery). Class 86/5b: 86608 with gearing mods, to permit it to run on it's own. Class 86/6: Class 86/4s with ETH isolated, SAAB Wheels replaced with solid ones and limited to 75mph. Class 86/7: Electric Traction Limited's pair of class 86s. Class 86/9: Network Rail's Load Bank/Icebreaking locos; with one working motor bogie and a 40mph limit, under their own power). Think at most the /2 and /4 variant will be added
Great that it looks as if it’s going to be an 86. That really adds to the variety on the upcoming route and (in my mind at least!) increases the likelihood that there’ll be more sections of the WCML to come from JT in the future. As MrSouthernDriver mentions, the multiple 86 sub-classes make this a tricky one for JT, particularly because the sub-classes have some really significant differences. Power output varies from 3,600hp to 5,000hp, different sub-classes are geared differently, further affecting performance characteristics, and maximum speeds range from 75mph to 110mph. That’s before we even start on the visual differences. I tend to agree that the 86/2 and 86/4 are the sensible ones to go for. The 86/1 is a bit of fun with its 110mph capabilities, but we’ve already got the 87 for that and there were only a handful of 86/1s anyway. For the era when JT set their routes, the 86/2 feel like an essential to me, and the 86/4 would be a great addition, particularly for freight.
Wonder what the licensing would be (or just permissions?) to do the preserved liveries for railtours.
And those are all UK hits from 1986 also, but you can see the light tapering in of the plated over headcode box
Logically anything up to 86/4 may appear but none of the later subclasses due to the 1986 time period of BPO and Preston-Carlisle.
oh yea- but hey as some might say one can hope haha. even if its an 86 i'd take it! At some point i was able to see all 3 mainline certified class 86s all in one day before which was pretty impressive and i think they are also very cool locomotives! BR electric locos forever!!
I think I'll be pretty satisfied if the announced list is present in good amounts and quality on the new route. The Pacer will be sweet, with the ol' 47, the Gronk, the 40s and 45s, even some 20s and 31s. I know a lot are layered in, but even the basic route having four locos is more than many routes now, and most people here I'd wager have at least one or two of the routes to layer other stuff on.
A friend of mine used to drive 86s and 87s. He told me that the 87s used to cut the power if you went over 114mph. The 86s didn't, which was very useful when he was trying to get back to Manchester Piccadilly for last orders in the Coach and Horses.
