Okay, so no, I didn't go insane from waiting for a railjet. Not yet at least. I'm mostly interested in the community's opinion on Fictional Trains to fill in gaps that have yet to be filled whether it is due to licenses or just not being on the radar. I'm not talking about goofily, cheaply made ones either.. but instead designers taking inspiration of real world Trains, applying the appropriate markings, physics and whatever else a train in REAL LIFE would have. For example, modern UK freight currently is in a... rather lacking state, as shockingly the only freight locomotive of the current era that we have is... the returning star, Class 66. A fictional locomotive could fill in the gap for a bit until DTG & Friends get around to making a new one. It would also allow for more variety to be implemented in routes we already have, bring in some new life. Now of course, the issue with this as I'd imagine. A good few... if not alot of people are absolutely not a fan of Fictional things in a simulator. That's totally understandable, In which this case timetables including Fictional Trains could be separate from the regular timetables. This is just an idea I've had floating around, and I'd love to hear what the community thinks about it.
Fictional liveries is already highly disputed enough, but entire fictional locomotive classes? Trust me, both in my own opinion on them and what I can imagine the wider opinion of the community will be, no chance in hell. The same sentiment has been echoed time and time again for the idea of fictional liveries and fictional routes, and that is that it is for different games to facilitate that. TSW is rooted in realism, some like myself may be willing to bend a bit for such things as almost accurate sounds or debranded liveries, but outright fictional stuff is a flat out no from me and for that matter, an outright fictional train class is perhaps the worst possible fictional thing that they could do.
While admittedly I am nowhere near a purist when it comes to trains (if you follow my posts in the "Model Railways" Off Topic thread you'll see what I mean), I personally would rather wait for the gaps to be filled with the correct equipment. Having "railroad-of-lies" faux paint schemes on proto-equipment is already pushing a limit for me, but having a faux loco is a bit beyond my comfort level. I'd rather see the devs use the development time instead on researching and working on a real locomotive, or patching previous content.
Not for me. Fictional liveries don't bother me if a license couldn't be gained to use the correct livery, But fictional locos? Nope. Wouldn't get a penny from me.
That would be a no from me. I mean I like fictional vehicles in games like GTA or less serious simulators like Derail Valley. But in a proper simulator I'm expecting real rolling stock. And the biggest issue is that in the time they would be spending modelling and creating fictional stuff, they could use that effort to instead create real trains that they have the licence for.
Nahhhhh... Just no. Where does it stop? The game is simulator of REAL locomotive and units? and if it branches off into fictional locomotives the decline of the overall game would start for me. Also I'm sure in a way for people who like that sort of thing, TSW tycoon has semi fictional stuff...
Maybe that was admittedly a bad example, but it's the nearest thing in TSW we have got to a fictional locomotive etc... The original Euro Truck simulator only just got around having fictional brands... It just doesn't work in railway side of things. Although just hypothetical,I just don't think that fictional locomotives would add anything to the game in anyway shape or form.
ETS is just a licensing thing, they haven’t come up with fictional trucks (trailers somewhat though). To be fair I don’t think anyone really cares about the lack of real world companies in ETS, because it’s so easy to mod. TSW would have a much bigger kneejerk reaction to it as half the users are on platforms that can’t get around the lack of licensing, and it’s generally a huge thing for sims. Again though fictional brands & fictional trains are very different things - the latter which has no place in TSW, IMO.
Fictional liveries - yes, but only if there is no chance to get the license. Fictional trains - please don't.
Would be fun if concept or prototypes that never made it to production got made for TSW, although I appreciate it'll likely never happen. Things like the Class 93, Class 157 and Class 424. I mean, who wouldn't want to drive this beaut?
I don't see how fictional locomotives would even benefit the game. Hell DTG doesn't even have EMD or GE licenses (As shown by their lack of logo) but their locomotives still appear in game.
Fictional liveries: No. If you want fictional liveries, just use the creators club. Fictional trains: Hell No
Not really a good idea. Unless it was set against the backdrop of a fictional environment, say a simulation of something like Snowpiercer or Polar Express.
It's the weekend, so I'm not officially on the clock, but since I'm currently waiting for my big pot of chicken stock to reduce, I decided to check the forums and weigh in on this thread, as it's always been a topic that interests me. Again, I am not here in any official capacity, so please ignore the staff tag - everything I’m about to say is purely my personal viewpoint and does not reflect Dovetail Games in any way. Reading the replies here, it's clear that I come from the other side of the spectrum, as I don't mind fictional content in simulators - quite the opposite, in fact. I was very excited when Microsoft announced the Dune Ornithopter and the Pelican from Halo and found both very fun to play. I enjoy simulator games, as I often find them very relaxing. A group of friends and I only recently finished a long run of Farming Simulator 22, where I lived out my dream of owning a vineyard (even if the game calls it grape juice!). I think suspension of disbelief is key when it comes to fictional content in simulators. Take, for example, a route and train in TSW from a part of the world you have no familiarity with. Provided the overall quality is good, would you even notice - or care - if some sounds or other elements weren’t fully accurate? As long as the train is enjoyable to drive and the route looks great, do inaccuracies you’re unaware of really matter? Now, take that a step further: imagine a fictional train that’s well-crafted, with realistic physics and high-quality sounds, would it really matter that the train is fictional? If it allows you to explore interesting places, why limit yourself to real-world content that, by necessity, is constrained by realism? I’m not suggesting we add magical, flying trains, but if there were a fictional UK cargo train inspired by the real thing, as -_-LivvuAurora-_- suggested - something with believable physics and sounds that evoke “UK cargo train” - would that not be preferable to having nothing, or more Class 66s? I’m not saying this to belittle anyone who prioritises realism, but I’m genuinely interested in why so many are so strongly opposed to fictional content in simulators. As someone who spends a lot of time writing campaigns for Dungeons & Dragons, I have a huge interest in what makes fiction compelling, so hearing opposing views is really valuable to me.
I agree with Jan. Anyone remember the huge "Sea View 5" on MSTS - OldVern? Taking you undersea, to deserts, fun parks, and a plethora of really original James Bond style locations. To this day, playing this via OpenRails is huge fun! (And the nice thing is the Kuju controls have basically survived from MSTS to TSC and TSW, just A and D are flipped but configurable.) Pelican Express on Sea View 5
Fictional routes when done well and have a "story and location" behind them are fine There have been some great fictional routes in TSC. Personally when things get too fanciful I switch off. I don't think fictional trains would cut it though, especially as there are so many real trains not modelled. However I can see that a fantasy route with fantasy trains could attract new interest.
It’s a definite no from me. I could see some interest in some fictional universes like exploring the interesting trains in the Fallout universe, but that’s a different game for me - not something I want resources spend on in TSW. Fictional liveries are already something I disapprove of, never mind fictional trains with fictional physics. Picking up on this point, I would care, actually. I started out unfamiliar with anything but German and some US railroading in TSW but used TSW as a springboard to learn more. That is entirely lost if the presentation in TSW becomes (intentionally) unreliable. Personally, I’m not interested in seeing a fictionalised take on UK cargo (to use your example) but only the real deal. If that means it’s all a 66, then that’s ok to me. A sim should always aspire to depict reality as it is. That’s just my take, obviously. Can’t speak for others. Also, this “would you even notice” was used as an excuse for the poor quality of the Skyhook 187 in an official stream, so I will admit I’m immediately biased when this line of thought comes up.
I think the difference here is, there was so much content (and still is) for MSTS and TSC that these discussions never took place. Everyone could choose what they want, whereas in TSW everyone's disappointed if the eagerly awaited next DLC is not meeting their expectations, so everyone's "fighting" for the next DLC to be "theirs".
I can't speak for everyone, but if I had to guess, I'd just say one word, expectations, bare in mind even in fiction you often are limited by what people do and don't want out of a particular series. Nobody wants a Mario game which looks and plays like Call of Duty, nor do people want Half-Life game that's a Animal Crossing clone. Or to go with a more realistic example, nobody wants DOOM game which ends up just being a Call of Duty clone, which nearly did happen with DOOM 4, but saner heads prevailed in that case. So even people who don't necessarily know the trains expects that there's some base in reality. So much of that game is sold on realism, so even a fictional train would have to be done to the standards of a realistic locomotive, and somewhat limits what you can do. The one thing I will say is if "fictional content" was to be done the best idea would be to look at unmade locomotives, or alternative history scenarios. For example I remember reading EMD did offer a GP70 that ultimately went unordered, I imagine it would be possible to make that as a "what if" DLC for some route. For something a bit crazy something like the ACE 3000 could be done, would be interesting to envision a 80's C&O route where they actually went forward with that idea. Not quite to that scale, but K&L Trainz I know once did a what if conversion of the N&W A Class called PRR FG-1, as the PRR did seriously consider ordering, but they went with the PRR J1 (a converted C&O T1) in reality.
The good thing about fictional routes, models and liveries is that no licensing issues need to be taken into account, the creator alone owns the copyright. But if a game calls itself a simulator, a connection to the real world should always be maintained. Let's take MSFS as an example. Without licensed aircraft and real Bing satellite data, we would be dealing with a kind of GTA5, where everything is just a parody of the real world. But many people want to fly over their own city and virtually control an Airbus A 320 or a Boeing 747. If possible, with their own airline, the one they always fly with on their summer vacation. The irony is: we are so fixated on brands and companies through the media and advertising that we want them in simulators too. The companies are fine with that, because it is also a form of advertising for them. In relation to UK diesel locomotives: because the Class66 is so dominant and other locomotives from mainland Europe do not come to the island, there is a kind of monotony on British tracks. It would make sense to develop a new prototype based on the existing physics engine of the 66 that looks fresher. That would be a kind of redesign or tuning, as you would say with cars. Sony's Gran Turismo shows that such a concept can work. Prototypes that were conceived by the real car designers of the individual manufacturers but were never produced as a series vehicle regularly find their way into the game and are enjoyed by players. The concept could also be transferred to trains, but these should not be simple mods, but fully developed models. BTW: thanks for deleting the picture, it was the best thing to keep things calm.
I’m not in favor for fictional trains, everyone has their own preferences. We all have different imaginations and maybe one fictional trains will please a fraction of a fraction of the entire game players base. If DTG will ever release a fictional then it’ll be the famous “Jet Train” originally made for MSTS, then re-released for TSC as a tribute. I have a lot of good memories and spent lot of hours with it playing MSTS as a kid.
Yeah, most of community would have meltdown, there is only a small minority which would tolerate fictional stuff. Personally, I am against fictional content, liveries and trains, as many have stated, TSW is supposed to be realistic (if you ignore the 300 mph LMS Jubilee). Unbranded liveries are definitely the way to go if there are licensing issues, we don’t want another BR Class 484… besides, it’s not uncommon to see unbranded trains in the UK anyway. When rolling stock is hired or loaned, the branding is removed take the 387 recently for example. While we’re on the subject, why can’t they make a unbranded Class 484 SWR livery?
I think the livery itself for the 484 was part of the licensing issue which is why we got a fictional livery. However people soon put the correct livery in Content Creators club.
I’m not against fictional trains, but I would never buy one. Why? Because for me things are not so much about a simulator but more about memories. I’ve always loved trains and playing UK and German routes brings back memories of times where I’ve seen the real trains. For the same reason as I wouldn’t buy a fictional train, I also don’t buy anything from the US anymore. It’s fun for 5 minutes, but there is no attachment to it and I get bored long before I get any value for money. Just Trains are hitting the sweet spot for me at the moment with the era they are working in hitting the time I was really into UK trains and I pretty much enjoy anything modern German due to the fact I travel around Germany quite a lot.
Nope, no nonsense fictional stuff. I bought nearly all the DLCs except for the Christmas one and that says a lot.
Something along the lines of the Flight Sim Dune mod as a full route and rolling stock for TSW with Snowpiercer would be super cool as an optional TSW addon. Definitely way more awesome than the Holiday Express. But I just don't see this kind of thing working in the capacity originally suggested to cover missing locomotives in real life routes, like a "Class Schmeventy Fruitliner"
Oh man, that brings back memories! I never actually played it (the scale of the route used to intimidate me when I was younger), but loved looking through screenshots of it and looking through all the additional content for it in the TrainSim file libraries. Full Bucket Line was another route along the same lines. While I don't care for fictional locomotives or trains, I actually don't mind fictional routes. Most routes are strange and foreign to me anyway, so as long as the theming is good and there's a good attention and variety to detail, I still have fun with a fictional route. Two of my favorites, Pageants Field for MSTS/OR and London Transport Heritage Collection for TSC. https://excalibur-games.com/products/pageants-field https://store.steampowered.com/app/562375/Train_Simulator_London_Transport_Heritage_Collection/ Granted with those two examples, the routes are fictional and the trains are real, but they do show that fictional content does have a place in the genre.
I’d been kicking the idea around myself but this is a great case against fictional, and probably the best case… there is already plenty of licensed content still out there to be made.
0 interest in fictional trains. At the most I could live with unbranded liveries but a made up train even if it had some similarities with a real one would be a no-buy.
So I've read the replies on the post, and I can see now that the majority of the community wouldn't like the idea of a fictional train. I understand, and appreciate everyone who took the time to explain their point of view on this post. It gave me more insight in what people prioritize and prefer in their products. The one that struck close to home very much is the point about attachment. I can see that a fictional train would basically have zero real world attachment to someone, therefore making it somewhat hard to be enthusiastic about. I myself, prioritize driving trains that I am familiar with irl, rather than the ones that either came from an era from before I was even alive.. or a country that is extremely far away from Europe. I also very much thank that people kept it respectful and reasonable too. The reason why I wanted to see what the community thought, is that I currently have a few drafts of personal projects as I get more and more into Unreal Engine modeling. Those of course.. being developing trains. So, it seems that I may be thinking about steering more into re-creating real World Trains, rather than making a fictional train based off of real world references. For right now, It is mostly just notes and plans. 3D modeling was definitely harder than I thought it would be.
A fictional route with fictional trains would be a good way to learn the tools, but that's as far as it should be used.
Perhaps something like an alternative history (Man in the High Castle) would be fun. Or a steampunk universe where diesel / electric never got the traction and steam trains continued to evolve.
I agree with Jan that a fictional train/route presented in a realistic manner could be fun, but disagree with: I know that sounds have been substituted in the past, and they've also been called out. While I myself don't have a problem with similar sounds being subbed in when necessary, I do think disclosure is important. The difference is that great intangible called respect. IMO, DTG shows they respect their customers when they present previews and roadmaps as warts-and-all livestreams with chat enabled, rather than prerecorded and carefully edited videos with no interaction possible, and also in their willingness to enter the forums with detailed explanations on various aspects of the game or causes and status of problems. Just as it's important to DTG's present and future relationships with train companies that they show respect by not simply slapping on blank liveries rather than work out a licensing deal, it's also important that DTG respect their customer base by doing their very best to deliver realism in a sim where that's the main selling point and making it clear when they can't, as opposed hoping nobody will notice and then getting busted.
One thing that has come to mind, when doing a completely fictional route. Is re-creating the Stalburg Metro system from the game INFRA. With the issue being of course.. that there isn't actually any info aside from the fact it is Finnish trains and Infrastructure. It may become just a practice run for the tools and the PC Editor, but it's certainly interesting to research.
I live in a country that away from locations that represented in TSW. Moreover, even the rail gauge width is different here. That is why ALL of the rolliing stock in TSW seems for me quite fictional however, I like driving US and Europe trains here. That is why, if TSW introduce absolutely fictional loco or even a train, I probably won’t notice it especially if it is implemented good - I will buy. Therefore I think there is a large amount of players like me, who can be interested in perfectly implemented but not exactly real loco.
I have a feeling a (fictional) route on the Isle of Sodor would be quite popular. Of course it would be nearly all steam (except for Duck) . All the Rev Awdry's creations were based on real world prototypes (some more loosely than others!)
If they can't get a license for a real train then move on. No fictional trains please. There are enough fictional games out there, we don't need one here.
Wut? Duck is a GWR 5700 Pannier Tank Engine. Are you confusing him with Diesel, the Class 08, from Duck and the Diesel Engine?
Definite no to fully fictional trains. TSW is at its centre a railway sim. There are other games which cater to fictional locomotives. However, there might be something along these lines which might work. Trains which aren’t fictional but were never built. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250 is a prime example. The Intercity 250 was supposed to supersede the old electric traction on the WCML but sadly the project was cancelled. It’s a genuinely interesting what if moment. There’s bound to be a few more proposed/planned trains which were never actually built and I’d say they’d have a place in TSW, certainly more than fully fictional locos.
The big problem with doing something like the IC 250 that I feel is being overlooked is that real engines have tons of photo, video, audio to work off of, plus you might have the option of scheduling a recording session. This allows you to heavily uses those as reference, meaning that there's no real need to have people with loco design knowledge on staff. That isn't a option for something that was never made, you'd instead either need to do extensive digging on it, a lot that info being at best obscure, or at worst locked up in a cabinet at some company who probably don't might not even know what you're talking about. And likely even in a best case scenario you'd need to try and design at least a few bits of it to make a plausible "what if" version, and in a worst case might even need to design from scratch. And I'm not sure if DTG nessicarily has people on staff who could design a plausible "fictional" locomotive to a level of detail that matches the "real" machines.
